Why is everyone here so convinced its hard to get a job...

Even though I had a bad life I never took it out on myself by being defeatist. I kept my pain to myself and drank, that was my escape. Im sick of people feeling sorry for themselves becasue they were abused or abandoned. Get over it and stop living in the past or youll never see a future.

Explain to me how its ideology, I dont understand.

My gott the ideology in this thread.

I dont understand what you mean when you say that.

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You do realize that employment is a voluntary contract right? In that contract you agree to do X work for X pay. Obviously you cant get 100% of the profits from your labor or else the company will fail and whatever product it provides wont be available anymore.

WHAT IF THE CHILD CONSENT THO
Like is said man pure ideology.

Even retards with an Autism Level of

You're painting a picture where all your suffering in your terrible life while serving someone else is justified because you actually believe the lies told by the rich for you to keep serving them.

What else can you do? Those who have nothing have to turn part of themselves into a commodity and sell their labour power.
Alienation is not some bad feeling, it's just acknowledging that if you sell your time (like wage workers do), the sold time belong to the buyer, it's separated (alienated) from your life.
The employer.
By making you work more than you need for survival, but only paying a wage that's merely enough (if enough) for survival. The rest of the work (that produces a surplus over mere survival) is captured by the employer and turned into profit. It's forced work.

Read Zizek

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In the US we have child labor laws. Your computer and phone has coltan in it which is the product of slave labor you idiot, everyone with a device is promoting slavery with there wallet. People say its the capitalist corporations (which it is) but its also everyone who buys a device, we give them their power.

But if I save my money I can create a buisness so how am I a slave? You choose to work or not you dont HAVE to. Also I actually liked my job, thats why I picked it.

That's not what alienation is (solely) about. It runs much deeper than that.

I'm bringing something up that you seemingly haven't even considered. Arguably it isn't really relevant to me. But I can't believe the amount of classcuckery that goes into an attitude where you don't even believe it matters. Are you so bereft of a sense of dignity that you wouldn't care about being someone else's doormat? Apparently not.

*sigh*

Yeah I get it. You're proud of your misery. *Clap clap* I've assumed by now it's just some sort of coping mechanism. *yawn*
I've seen people crushed by debt that wasn't their doing, seen innocent people thrown into jail, fraudsters that got away clean, and many things worse than that. But I guess that doesn't matter, those people should just stop whining lel xD! After all they can pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

Why does everyone fight about communism vs capitalism. China and the US have the same types of problems even though they are different systems.

What is voluntary about being made to work for someone else so that you aren't starved to death or just murdered outright for refusing

Everything you need to live is privately owned
The only way to get the things you need is with money
The people that own everything have all the money
They'll only give it to you if you "agree" to make even more money for them
If you don't you'll either be imprisoned and forced to work or excluded from society until you die or you're killed for fun by cops
But despite it being coercive from top to bottom retards like you say this is "consensual"

Ideology doesn't come much more
PURE

Jesus christ. This is debating with a lolbertarian 101. What are you even doing here? There is no such thing as ethical consumption: All commodities to be consumed in a capitalist society are produced under conditions of exploitation, even if that exploitation varies in degree. That's because capitalism is a system in which companies, in order to make a profit, pay workers less than the value their labor produces. Because this sort of exploitation is unethical, and it is present in all production of commodities, there can be no ethical consumption under capitalism.
And no, i'm not gonna starve myself to death

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If you have act like a smartass at least get your facts straight and read theory. Know who you are debating with fool

Are you just gonna leave it at that or are you going to elaborate? (this society is designed to keep us spiritually, culturally and mentally alienated, we all know this.)

If anything its you and me who are exploiting people, our devices are made from conflict minerals dug out by slaves. Also Im not a door mat, I choose to work becasue I accepted the pay.

I was a security guard at a convention center making above minimum wage, it wasnt a shit job, I could afford a studio appartment for 850 a month. Just becasue youve convinced yourself everyone hates X so wont hire them doesnt make it true.

Is that what you got out of it? What good would it do me to not work and just do nothing becasue I was abused? Also in what way do you think im proud I was abused? I only brought that up becasue it was relevant to what I was responding to.

SOMEONE CALL AN AMBULANCE
THIS MAN IS ABOUT TO OD ON IDEOLOGY

Thats not what I said at all, why not comprehend what your reading instead of just skimming and interpreting? I said starting to SEEM like semantics not that it was indeed semantics. My point was that both systems have the same problems that everyone thinks would be fixed under the other system. Grass is always greener but it seems like the grass is the same on both sides. How can one be worse or better when at the end of the day they have the exact same problems?

The same products are sold in communist countries therefor everyone is contributing to the problems not just capitalists. If you are so against exploitation why do you own a computer?

What the fuck are talking about? Both got problems but not the same problems. I already told you that china is not socialist.
The URSS that was didn't have the same problem with criminality that the us has right now or that russia has. What the fuck are you even comparing?

Even in communist Russia they had the same fucking problems. These are problems brought on by humanity, not a specific system.

And you wonder why we laugh

Idiot. Idiot. Idiot. You made an example with china and china is not. 2 communist countries never existed. 3 socialist doubt that had the same products as us 4 north korea i'm pretty sure doesn't have iphones.
What the fuck are you talking about, bring statistics and facts motherfucker.

JUST GET A JOB

At the end of the day all im seeing are excuses. Nothing is stopping any of you from improving your life but yourselves. Also ill never in my life be able to take any of you seriously. How dare you say shit like labor is entitled to all it creates while owning products of literal slave labor. How dare you blame the "corporations" when you are funding them. You faggots are so out of touch its scary.

Communists like to talk about equality. How about this then….
THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WORK SO YOU SHOULD TO TO BE EQUAL WITH THE COMMON MAN, WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO ONLY TAKE WHEN SO MANY OTHERS GIVE COMRADE

Get a job
Sha na na na na na na na na
Get a job
Sha na na na na na na na na
Wah yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip
Sha boom

Because that's a fallacious argument you fucking retard

If you dont work who is supporting you? How do you eat? The only person who can claim to care about exploitation would be a person who caught his own food, gathered his own water, owned no electronics or items produced by slave labor. If you are on welfare, foodstamps or even shelter meals you are exploiting by taking for free. Nothing is free because it cant be as long as everything is finite.

So why is it only the poor that need to work when the wealthy contribute nothing to society

You're a massive class cuck, my dude.

No it isnt, computers are made from conflict minerals. By buying anything made from them you dupport slavery and are exploiting those kids for your device. Just buying one keeps the supply around becasue you create demand. Its like child porn, if you consume the content you are causing more to be made to fill the demand therefore you are as guilty as the person filming.

We reached Memeo Zizek levels ITT

Im pretty sure the majority of americans work even if they are rich. Also if you create a company you have the right to delegate work and collect your cut. In America you have to work hard to be lazy.

As far as contributing to society who is doing more? The guy washing the floors or the guy running a buisness to meet the demand of the population? I dont know why you act like being rich is inherently evil.

You're so much of a classcuck, it's scary. Actually, ignore that. It's just disgusting.

Also lel @ trinity of anti-communism

If I spend the money appropriated from the workers in my dad's firm, who is supporting me? Who's feeding me?
Nevermind, I guess that's just okay - somehow -, and if you disagree that just makes you "lazy" and "entitled", and if I acknowledge this worker-capitalist relationship that just makes me a "hypocrite".

Everything in capitalism at some point or another utilizes that sort of exploited labor. There isn't any possible way to avoid it, because the system is all encompassing. Even if you killed yourself the rope or gun or whatever you used to do it was made with exploited labor. You'd then be buried or cremated by wage laborers whose job it is to bury or cremate people.

You're a class cuck, my man, shouting at the people that actually want this kind of thing to stop while you actively defend the system that carries this out and the people that actually direct and benefit from this exploitation, which exists only to enrich them at the expense of everyone else.

Read Zizek and unfuck yourself.

guess not

I actually started applying for jobs before I was 18. It was the recession, then. Though things started turning around, nobody ever called me back until 5 years later. Even then, I only ended up getting hired at a strip club, which I would not even have been allowed to work at in my state until I was 21.

It was something I enjoyed doing, though. Also below minimum wage - technically, what they were doing was illegal. But a year later, they were changing the terms of the position and I was about ready to move on, so I started following leads I thought I had and another year went by before I landed a retail position. Supposedly the place had 70% turnover… I was told this about a month before I was fired, having seen many come and go in the brief time (exactly brief enough that I wasn't eligible for unemployment) that I worked there. It was very late in life that I had my opportunity to really understand the advantages of quitting. I felt very silly having this huge gap in my resume where my last job had been, just because I was so happy to work for someone who was notoriously snappy. While my pay there was slightly above minimum wage, I later realized that due to inflation it was still less than the minimum wage in 1980 ($3.10 per hour).

Because I have one firing on record, and I'm from a comfortably (not really the word - I moved back "home" to help an injured parent and never left) white collar background I'm essentially faced with working very hard to start over from scratch in order to never be able to pay for the things I already have available now. The job market is better some places - I've been to other parts of the country where I literally get offered a job just for talking to someone, but not around here. With inflation, these jobs offer less in wages than my folks have worked for at any point in their entire lives (and they actually did work their way up, but even their starting jobs were established through social connections I simply don't have) and are harder to attain.

To clarify, I don't want a cozy white collar job. From what I've seen, it still looks absolutely miserable, and with inflation it's not even worth as much as when my folks started (and never had the luxury to stop). I'd like to have been able to work a shit-tier pink collar job and save up long enough to get a modest place, but I don't have any real need to care at this point.

How did your dad appropriate their money? A job is a volutary contract. You agree to your pay before you start working. If the pay was bad your father wouldnt have employees. Also you avoided the question
if you dont work how do you eat

the guy washing the floor probably, the only thing porky is working hard at is stealing his wages

But the worker agreed to the pay before hand

You realize that there are lots of homeless people with jobs, right?

does the worker ever have a choice to get 100% of what he produces

super lol but it's also highly likely that the unemployed >> outnumber the number of positions available thereby driving down the cost of labor.

yeah this.

of for fucks sake, this is such a basic question, when you hire someone you don't hire a set amount of work, you hire their ability to perform work, and you try to get them to produce more value for the company than it costs to pay them, otherwise, it isn't worth it. That extra value is called surplus value.
t. Marx

Yeah I was one of them for years. Whats your point?

No, that wouldn't make sense in the context of a business. The business has to have a product so if the employees kept 100% there would be no product or profit so the business would fail.

why don't you read a book, before asking the most inane and basic questions ever.

Heres one it explains what we think about things its only

hmmm maybe there isn't as much of a choice as you think

You miss my point. The worker is getting %100 percent of the wages he agreed on for his labor. Nothing is getting stolen. The person AGREED to the amount of pay they would receive. Why is this so hard to understand?

What the hell do you even mean?

So why are you giving a pass to the people that don't work, because they have this massive majority doing all the work for them

Because the rich got that way only by exploiting the labor of the poor. This isn't a recent revelation. This is recognized all the way back to the time of Christ.

The purpose of every business, the sole purpose, is to generate profit. Meeting demand is just an occasionally happy side effect. Most of the time however profits are only made at the expense of everyone else. For example

usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/07/24/how-goldman-sachs-and-wall-street-manipulate-alumnimum-and-other-commodities

These people didn't find the aluminum, or mine it, refine it, etc. But they sit on it only to drive up prices to increase their profits. The only effect this produces aside from making them lots of money is making things that require aluminum more expensive for you.

That doesn't change that they are being exploited
When my father is playing golf, and his employees are working, who is supporting who?

Funny you call us out of touch. Let me explain something. These employees need their jobs. Some of them have kids. If they get fired they lose everything. They homes, their cars, it would ruin them. When you have a family to feed there isn't a "choice". There's necessity.
In today's oversaturated labor market they are at the mercy of whatever my father decides. He can renegotiate the contract, and if they disagree he can fire them for "economic" reasons.
That's the reality of capitalism.

kys m8 you're too stupid to live

Why dont you just tell me your point instead of throwing a book at me. You did have a point right? Or were you just being argumentative?

How do I not understand poverty?

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just read it you brainlet

If you don't you'll either be imprisoned and forced to work or excluded from society until you die or you're killed for fun by cops

Why would you live on a roof?
You're supposed to live under a roof.

Im not giving anyone a pass, if you build a company thats work. It takes work and capital to create a buisness. So if somone creates a buisness they can pay someone to do all the work and still take a cut because there is a person willing to do that for an agreed salary. The buisness owner earned his was to lazy town and all of us are capable of doing the same thing if we have the discipline.

what about people who inherit businesses

Guess what, you live with your dad in a house that is the product of "stolen money" so when you choose not to work its your dads workers who are supporting you. Go think about that faggot. While you post, your dads workers get "robbed" to pay for your comfortable life

When you get a job you agree to do whatever the employer wants for a finite amount of money. An unspecified amount of work for a specified amount of money. They want to work you as hard to produce more value for them than it cost to hire you. So you agree to take $10/hour for a job, but they make you work hard enough to produce $30/an hour in profits. You just paid your boss $20/hour.
youtu.be/8afqoDL3Qsk?t=87
The reason people do this, is because in capitalism we all need money. You can either earn income from capital as a capitalist, or for most people, the only way to earn money is to work for a boss and wage. it isn't a choice, or you will starve and be homeless.

I'm out. You're beyond salvation.
I can only hope for the day that this world is no longer tainted by the putrescence of poverty.

it was an example you fucking retard

i'm looking forward to hearing your business plan to build low-cost item superstores around the country.

you don't need captial or market share or trading contacts/infrastructure to accomplish this, just ""discipline"".

Its not a crime to inherit wealth, but thats not to say I like those types of people if they are out of touch. I dont blindly think every rich person is a hard worker but you know what someone had to work for that wealth and then give it to that person which they have every right to do.

so they get a free pass?

Samuel Moore Walton was born to Thomas Gibson Walton and Nancy Lee, in Kingfisher, Oklahoma. He lived there with his parents on their farm until 1923. However, farming did not provide enough money to raise a family, and Thomas Walton went into farm mortgaging. He worked for his brother's Walton Mortgage Company, which was an agent for Metropolitan Life Insurance,[3][4] where he foreclosed on farms during the Great Depression.[5]Sam Walton was an American businessman who founded the Wal-Mart Stores Inc. which grew to be the world’s largest corporation by revenue as well as the biggest private employer in the world.[6]

wow if only my brother owned a company i could own my own company one day too

I agree, what could possibly be wrong with that?

I like the square bracket citations indicating it was copypastaed from wikipedia.
unironically, read the book linked by:

it will explain all this shit way better. I like how people come here to ask questions, we give them intro tier answers and a link them to more detailed ones and then their response is
Naw, naw, I don't want to read that short book, id rather learn it from random people on image boards in a few sentences. Fucking Sargon of akkad, every time. If you're not shitposting and actually being honest, actually do some research on our beliefs before you shit on them with your uninformed ignorant opinions

So what it should be illegal for people to give wealth away? Should people have to pass a test before they are eligible to receive wealth?

Someone already replied, but this is a bit of a headscratcher to hear. When you have nothing and are homeless, the capacity for bargaining is not high. This is a situation that contributes to many things the homeless and extremely poor are associated with (often stereotypically, which makes it worse) - prostitution, begging, etc. As the saying goes, "beggars can't be choosers" - which is, for the record, an oversimplification but vaguely accurate.

When the working pool includes so many who aren't in a position to turn down work (homeless people, illegal immigrants, etc.), then it's very hard for anyone who is capable of paying anything that can buy food to be unable to hire anyone for a basic position. The labor market errs in favor of the employer, because unemployment remains a constant factor so employees are always competing for work.

Nigger go watch shark tank, there are fucking thousands of business owners that get started using money they saved throughout their working lives. Its a small group of people with the enormous wealth and you make it seem like anyone above poverty is fucking evil

nigger go read the fucking book

You realize reality TV is not actually reality, right?

Nigger go watch Jerry Springer.

Uhhuh, so the capitalist class expands itself? What about the workers? The ones that in the end provide the labor and produce these commodities?

You keep giving them pass after pass. These people do no work and profit from it. So why is work only necessary for the ones that actually do all the work, but those that profit from it are given a free pass? Why do they deserve to live their entire lives at ease, not working, because of work they did however many years ago?

And? So what? This is the system you're defending. By your logic his father earned that wealth and voluntarily supports him with it.

Oh I guess it's only bad when you can use a position of moral superiority to bludgeon people opposed to your sycophantic ideology.

I never lied to myself, I knew I was only going to start with minimum wage but even homeless I had a choice about what I wanted to do. I chose my job and stuck to it. I couldve got a better job after the first year but I choose to stay in a minimum wage spot because I liked the work. When I got tired of being outside I got a better job and an apartment. Of course people are always going to need work and employers have easy pickings. Also in america the homeless are in a position to turn down work. Ive met many homeless people who chose not to work and just live around shelters.

You do realize its not a reality show and the businesses are real right? I guess you don't. You WANT to be a victim of capitalism, you dont have to be.

And 90% of those businesses fail in their first year and those people end up destitute.

My whole point is that they were workers, they saved their pay to use as capital in a business. Something ANY of us can do if you have the discipline to live below your means and save.

You are missing the part where most business owners started as workers and saved their pay to become business owners. I would not like the capitalist system if it wasnt for the fact that ANY of us can create a business and become wealthy

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And what if you got that money through exploitation? Speculation? Inheritance? Taking credit for other people's work?
Read Marx about the Labor Theory of Value (Not to be confused with price) and what exploitation actually entails.
It's only ~30 pages

I was making a point using HIS logic not my own. Also moral superiority? Really? What a fucking baby.

Then that person would be an asshole but its not illegal to be an asshole.

Were you born a slave? No? Ok then.

Not an argument faggot

In the modern day no one is a slave. If you dont want to work you dont have to, you have the choice of going on welfare and letting society pay for your slack.

*In modern day America
Not counting sex slaves. they are slaves

That simply isn't true.

Prove its not. In every state there is a welfare of some kind.

The argument was I was making a point using his logic not my own, that last part was an insult not an argument. Damn dude.

why isn't this trash thread deleted? wake up mods

Im still just getting excuses.

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But the homeless who aren't turning down work are not in a position to turn down a job because the wages are too low. That there are some who prefer unemployed homelessness and shelters to getting work does not speak incredibly well of our job market, nor does it nullify the effect on the job market of people who are given such a decision.

Out of curiosity, when was this?

Actually, this is by design. The market exists as it is because of policy, not randomness, which keeps unemployment above a certain level.

You should be the one to prove it is, but since this is so easy
welfareinfo.org

And from there the requirements vary from state level, but no where can you just elect to stop working and be taken care of.

You're a massive, embarrassing class cuck.

Seriously why are you even here? If you refuse to acknowledge the concept of exploitation and how people can be actively kept down by their material conditions then, why not just join your fellow sycophants at >>>/liberty/?
Seriously, just read Marx. Then come back an accuse people of "making excuses".

hopefully in the future you'll get bullets instead

>"Shark Tank is an American reality television series"

The people on Jerry Springer are real. That doesn't mean they're representative of every day life, or even their own lives. Paris Hilton is real. That doesn't mean her show wasn't staged. American Idol is real. That doesn't mean everyone who can sing like one of their melisma-abusing champs sees success on sheer merit and work ethic.

There's a pattern here, I think you can figure it out.

Gotta give class cucks a chance to unfuck themselves. It's a shame this guy turned out to be a brain dead cap shill. What a waste.

Lol, his ban appeal.

What a dumb projecting faggot.

Disappointing really. Just let people lurk. Plenty of people have come here from Holla Forums and reddit, most of them spooked.
Unironic classcuckery isn't the worst what's been posted here.

he can still lurk. which is what he should have done in the first place

I dunno, I'm on the fence. We get so much of this.

If he did that he wouldn't be banned..

Instead he made a thread where he ignored every counter point or argument to repeat his class cucked bullshit ad nauseum instead of engaging with anyone critically.

So his dumb ass got banned, just like other Holla Forumsyps that come here only to spout their stupid bullshit.

And now he can do all the lurking he should have done to begin with.

Never has problem finding a job tbh.

Where did you see his appeal?