Isn't being self employed just seizing your own means of production?

most "self employed" people are really just bank employees.

or in the new gig economy meme, just employees with less rights.

If you're self-employed and your only employee, you are not really within the class system anymore. Same as if you work at a co-op. You're still in capitalism though since you produce for exchange on a market. It's an improvement but not socialism (yet).

A better phrase would be "Worker control of production" to roll production for use into the controlling the workplace part.

The bank is just an agent of capitalism that facilitates business. They're not business's boss, just one entity that mediates the relationship between businesses and the market. Capitalism is the boss.

That's as true of a factory owner as a bank, though.

Technically yes, of course the rule of capital ensures that from the small number of people able to become self employed even fewer of them stand a chance of sustaining themselves through it. Capital has as much control over entrepreneurship as their own property.

Yes, if you believe bullshit like co-ops=socialism and market "socialism".

Factory owners have much more power over their employees than banks have over their debtors. Come on now.

That's incorrect.

In my country, the gouvernment is pushing unemployed people to become self-employed in order to fix the statistics (brainwashing them at the national employment centre with liberal rhetoric). It's better to be an uber driver than a drug dealer as my president said once.
This condition just isolates you from other workers and often leaves you with less rights and worse living conditions than the average person.
There are all kind of work you can do as a self-employed, some of them are legit, but lately lots of shitty gigs are appearing.
All of this just degrade the labour market, the workers rights and the quality of the services (see people pretending to be taxi drivers).
So no, it doesnt do any favor to the left cause, by becoming self employed you're pleasing porky.

Where is the class in a scenario where one person works and sells their labor directly to the market?

What this board has come to.

Yes? There is literally nothing wrong with it.

No, you're being employed by the market.

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Stealing the fuck out of this to use ironically.

There is literally nothing wrong with becoming independent from large capitalists.
There is literally nothing wrong with hoarding money under capitalism. That's what the system is for. Why pretend otherwise?
That said, it's not marxist, because that refers more to systems and less to the job you have.

Stupid generalizations. Read this. You guys are retards.

havanatimes.org/?p=31395>>2037570

it's not capitalism

then they're not self employed.
It's not capitalism.

You dont seize them so no
No because it doesnt abolish the law of value and thus capitalism still exists. Marxism is not coops.

This thread and a few others i saw this week make me worry about leftypol.

wow btfo'd great post user archive that shit

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thanks dude.

It's been especially shitty lately since you've got a lot of stupid assholes here more intent on letting Holla Forums post their stupid shit to "debunk it" rather than on posting good leftist content of their own or actually discussing actual leftist issues. Holla Forums’s character has taken on a decidedly reactionary aspect lately.

Yes. It is.

Concern trolling is a thing, but I'm worried that stricter rules would just make this a complete torture chamber with no discussion. Are we allowed to discuss imperialism from both side? Are we allowed to discuss nationalism from both sides?
The reactionary turn is mostly Holla Forums-fags, the weird socdem and that autistic nazbol poster. And maybe stalin moustache, depending on P.O.V.
We'd need another ideology poll though, if we want to really see who's just very loud and who's in the majority.
Maybe in general a couple polls, to see people's ideas on sexism, nationalism and imperialism. And maybe also the BO's new policies.

but what id you don't do these things.

Marxism isnt market socialism
Marxism is collective production, not competition between individuals.

Ya dummy, youre a small owner in this case, your income is profit, yet you are a wage labourer. Self employed = petit bourgeois

No it means that you have made yourself to be useful in material production despite the capitalism making tons of people in the first world irrelevant, useless and otherwise dependent on material exploitation of the third world.

If you are self employed, you can either lie to yourself or not. If you are self employed due to inheritance of capital, then odds are you exploit others already.

If you are a small time businessman, congrats, but you probably have to exploit yourself too.

What about stealing office supplies and toilet paper from work?

youtube.com/watch?v=KIXz_vzROrw

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You're still just a slave to society.
The same way living outside of society will still make you a slave to survival. The goal of communism is to not work at all or only 1-2 hours a week because we're all lazy fucks.

so the goal of communism is to be a slave to society for fewer hours each week?

Not unless you take everything you own/ earn and give it to niggers / wet backs/ moslems/ single moms for nothing and except bread rations as your only source of food. Then it's Marxist.

These sort of posts are why Holla Forums is taking a reactionary turn

Good luck explaining that when the state seizes control of your business
fucking bourgeois

why are people taking this joke thread so seriously? OP was just trying to get himself off, he knows he's being retarded.