Do you guys think that the SJW's and antifas screaming "fascist" nonstop for the last few years have helped actual...

Those people aren't rednecks, though. The alt-right is suburban petit booj and are every bit a part of the neoliberal porkies anything

also this

Yeah but I don't think all of them are alt-right.
And it's not like antifa cares that much, I have an anti-immigration stance and I bet I'd be considered a fascist by them

...

Are you fucking kidding me? Antifa is not antigoverment or antiporky.

ah yes the uniform group known as The Antifa

Name one that antifa ever did against the goverment. They are not a group ok, still no one ever did a thing against the goverment.
Talking american here

They're largely responsible for gamergate, which was responsible for Milo, who was largely responsible for Ricahrd Spencer, and Richard Spencer makes explicit use of SJW language

"SJWs created fascism" may be a cliché but they're certainly part of the story

Antifa is nothing but impotent idealism. Punching a bunch of neonazis and autistic right types will not prevent society's march into fascism, this is rather to be determined by its material conditions.

But even then, that is missing the point about materialism. Why? Because this isn't the 30s or the 40s anymore. We no longer live in the era of national-scaled Capitalism. As we have seen from the reaction of the establishment and MSM following the far right getting BTFO'd in Charlottesville and Boston, it has absolutely no problem adopting to progressive, antiracist rhetoric. Indeed these "American patriots" would be laureled as such if they were the identitarian extremists and the demonized were the communists. In fact, this HAS happened in the past, with organizations like the Klan acting with impunity when they attacked Socialists and Unionists, and with much greater Violence.

The wide network of Antifascist action has proven to consist of nothing but idpozzed liberals whom by separating class politics from their actions continue to perpetuate the spectacle of capitalism, and subsequently maintain the very structure that gives fascism its existance.

Thats why we need to create something new. Maybe not with the name of ACTA, but you get it.

Right, I forgot there were no white nationalists on the internet before tumblr libs became a thing

No problem m8

Definitely. The intersectional feminists have used "fascist" as a bludgeon, in a similar manner to "sexist" and "misogynist" in their attempts to shame and silence dissent in the communities they have invaded and commandeered. Their conflation of outright fascism with conservatism more generally in usage of that bludgeon has dissolved the post world war two firewall that was erected to isolate fascists and exclude them from the political system by pushing the more moderate conservatives in with the fash. The resulting exposure to fash ideas framed in sympathetic terms now has the conservatives unsure why these ideas were excluded…

There have been actual world war 2 era nazis in high levels of the US government and especially the Republican party since shortly after the war so no I don't think SJWs memed this into existence.

fair.org/extra/the-gop-nazi-connection/

No question about it. It was one of the many ways they fucked everything up for everybody.

Daily reminder that Antifa are the useful idiots of the liberal establishment

Yeah you would know that if you actually bothered to read any of this thread you stupid fucking polyp

These are strange days indeed. The kind of stuff being taught in racial studies classes by postmodernists resembles Nazi propaganda in the way that it divides based on race. I think in the end they may have their own schism as some will start to see "Jewish muh privilege" from their success in economic "arenas". We'll see something like a racial minority Nazi movement. Perhaps it won't end in genocide but people within the movement acknowledging "Jewish muh privilege".

fascism is inherent to capitalism, capitalism collapsing under its own contradictions. there is no 70 year long white supremacist conspiracy, it wasn't muh sjws or gamergate either, to think that would be to miss the forest for the trees. The material conditions of our existence are themselves are geared to produce fascism.

Idpolers are basically the same even though they don't want to admit it.

Thats exactly whats wrong with them and why I dislike them. Rather than doing something that requires balls and going after the hegemons that ACTUALLY HAVE POLITICAL/ECONOMIC AUTHORITY they pick fights with irrelevant LARPers obsessed with a short lived political phenomenon from the early/mid 1900s.
Whats the difference between a gathering of neonazis and the Renaissance fair? Nothing but some impotent malice. Impotent being the keyword.
Punching neonazis is like being a vegan, it makes you feel good about yourself but it changes nothing about society at Large.
No amount of vegan converts will change the meat industry, just like no amount of Nazi punching will stop the government from giving itself even more Power
No shit but that doesn't invalidate my point. The current Target is a scapegoat, a shield, if we hanged all the neo nazis Porky would find a way to make more. In fact, thats essentially what Holla Forums is.

Yeah yeah yeah typical middle class coward with something to lose, aren't you? Blow it out your ass, pussy

I think it didnt help. Something happened around obamas second term were liberals went bat shit insane, started shoving politics into everything.

I think the basic of it is that you took away white guys prole feed. The media becomes filled with this hyper identity politics, entertainment becomes a Yale sociology lecture.

Those white boys that were perfectly happy just playing video games are now being screeched at about how everything they do is racist, and there is nothing they can do about this original sin or racism besides become a self flagellating sjw.

I think when you start accusing everyone and everything of racism the word loses all meaning. And actually it becomes quite funny to act racist just to trigger you.

America is actually very actually reactionary, even the black people are very religious and not to kind to gay people.

The hyper push for identity politics and the politicization of all media in the obama years has just led to americans becoming tired with a liberal class that is offended at everything all the time

There is actual legit racism and stuff like that, but when you have people running around whining about how video game characters are too sexy or how a sandwich is racist people just want to return back to a normal world were sjw's never existed, and actually the right wing somehow became more reasonable about free speech issues and better at making meme's because the liberals turned into this authoritarian insanity the sjw Inquisition, some sort of tyranny of a minority.

The media catering to this did not help. People want to watch sports, not some black power demonstration were a guy kneels during the national anthem.

When i was growing up the libs were the cool kid in class railing against bush.

After obama they became the balding principal.

While the right became like some kid who only comes to class once a year and has a motorcycle

And, if any of you were hanging around 4chan at the time, "fight fire with fire" was the motto. Using SJW methods against SJWs was a deliberate choice of Holla Forums at the time, which Holla Forums adopted. Or Maybe visa versa - I was never much of a Holla Forums browser

Everyone knows Stormfront shills took advantage of the Tumblr situation by infiltrating 4chan to increase their numbers, dont act dense on purpose

adding more:

I think the liberal elite class have forgotten the concept of bread and circus's, actually if you had just let videogames stay a teen boy hobby with tits and explosions most of them would not give a fuck about politics.

Taking away the white guys prole feed most likely activated them politically. If they have nothing to distract them with, and in fact media is actually actively mocking them and catering to the sjw class then they will find something that does accept them (the alt right) And this has back fired on sjw's who thought they would be in power forever because of their magical negro president.

Really i think if you wanted things to go back to normal you would need to socially engineer the death of the SJW group, make it socially cancerous to be some whiny liberal twat. let the right keep fucking up with their own extremists, return to a class politics instead of identity politics. And a return to a mass media that does not actively antagonize or culturally alienate the future nazi larpers and school shooters of america

Yes, SJWs pissed off a bunch of the internet, culminating in the rise of people like Milo.
And yes, Richard Spencer is ideologically pretty much a white supremacist SJW.
But no, neither SJWs nor Milo are responsible for Richard Spencers' success. It's all on mainstream liberal media who wanted to convince people that Trump election equals the rise of nazis that they did all in their might to popularize any nazi-like figure they could find.

Yes, definitely. The word "nazi" "bigot" etc have lost all meaning. I've been involved in the men's rights movement for many years now, and not only do SJWs call us sexist they also accuse MRAs of being racist Nazis. In The Red Pill documentary, Michael Kimmel explicitly compared MRAs to White nationalists. Nevermind that I've also supported BLM from the start, I'm a Nazi because I think male victims of DV should get support and that the justice system shouldn't discriminate against men any more than it should against black people.

All this does is give Nazis an easy excuse. Nobody cares about being called a Nazi anymore because SJWs will also call you a Nazi if you support gender equality now. So Nazis can ignore the criticism and the general public gets tired of paying attention.

The Neo-Nazis have literally zero power anywhere. Are you actually stupid enough to think they're a serious threat? They're fucking losers who can't even organize a political rally. The actual enemies are the Government.

Fag.

All of this is completely correct. Here is a list of people that SJWs call nazis:

...

I don't think so. All the Nazis are being hunted down in Amerikkka. Robbed, beat up, fried from their jobs or lynched.
Good riddance.

I'm trying to understand this Alt thing. So is Alt left Isis? And why are they allowed to protest in America?

I think conservatives are losing the propaganda war if this is all they can come up with. This is 80s drug war tier demonization.

That's not what he said lifestylist, go back to /r/socialism

Isis is a right winged ideology.

Not really

Don't use this term please.

Is Alt Left Antifa? Just trying to piece this all together.

You act like it's a retarded statement but that's literally what most feminists believe. If you think men suffer problems, you're a Nazi. The user above mentioned Michael Kimmel, he has an entire book Angry White Men where he says MRAs and white supremacists are the same.

If you think men have issues or if you support gender equality, you're a Nazi

We'll you certainly did nothing to answer my question. Reminds me of this YouTube video where a guy was trying to give a speech and this fat creature kept yelling sexist! Bigot! Because she feared his words and didn't have an intelligent counterpoint.

No. Feminists are defensively hostile against anybody they perceive as MRAs, for sure, but you are being hyperbolic.

However, you are right that feminists can be mind blowingly callous towards men's grievances. Men's gender related complaints are met with "male tears", "awww, did your fee fees get hurt", "it must be so hard to be a white male", and shit like that. I have genuinely seen feminists behave like that when men complain about the loss of manufacturing and construction jobs.

The only real exception is if the complaint bolsters the feminist position, like the sensitive guy who regrets being unable to cry.

No. That's just an excuse used by nazi apologists to shift blame:

Bullshit.

The material conditions have helped earn its place in society. If the economy was doing as shitty 20 years ago you would have people blaming black crackmoms for Nazis coming back. Read moar Marx.

It's a strawman created by liberals to paint themselves as the left while discrediting the left by lumping them in with the alt-right. It was later picked up again by Trump and the alt-right in order to legitimatise both his presidency and the US establishment.

You haven't spent very long on 4chan if you really believe left idpol had nothing to do with the rise of right idpol. Feminists have given rise to woman haters, white male haters to white male sympathizers, gender pluralism to transphobia. People get defensive.

Generation Z reactionaries are a direct response to progressive millennial "fuck Bush fuck Christians legalize weed" dumbasses.

t. self hating millennial still confused about the left and right line because he's american

Americans dominate English speaking internet culture. I can understand if you don't like that, but it is the case.

4chan users are a minority. Sheltered suburban kids may be embracing e-fascism but most young people are not. What you are seeing is the rise of the western version of the netouyo. They aren't politically significant nor are they representative of anyone. They have a huge impact online because they hang out on echo chambers (just like tumblrites.)

Yes, calling out scum is definitely at fault for scum coming out in the open. There is no way billions spent to push far right propaganda could've caused it.

So the economic conditions have no relevance in this? Do you know more about how society operates than Marx or Engels?

This is good.

The answer is both. Both are factors.

What gave rise to feminists, white male haters and gender pluralism?

Everything is always responding to other things.
You can selectively play this "they started it" stuff for anything depending on where you choose to place 'year zero'. And that's what nazi apologists selectively do to remove agency and moral culpability from nazis and place it onto their opponents instead.

C'mon dude. You can't just say that without elaborating on your position a little. What's the historical materialist take on the SJWs?

This sounds about right. Right-Wing spent a lot of money to build up a right wing youth movement, don't think they wanted the people to end up being literal Nazis, but they were pushing for the authoritarian right to be popular with young people and ended up with autistic fatfucks self radicalizing on the internet

GenZ is further left than Millennial's were at a similar age.

Stop being a stupid faggot acting like the internet is America and people will stop talking to you like you're a stupid faggot acting like the internet is America.

It might be slightly hyperbolic but not much. Feminists are more than just hostile towards people who support gender equality. "Most" feminists might not call you a Nazi if you support equality but it's not uncommon either. As said above Michael Kimmel, one of feminism's most respected academics, has an entire book saying that men who believe men have issues are the same as white supremacists. And lots of anti-mra protests have been feminists chanting shit like "racist sexist anti-gay, MRA go away!"
Most feminists hate equality, and a lot (but maybe not most) go so far that they call you a nazi for supporting equality

When was neo-nazism accepted? You're doing the same shit.

Not really, the narrative I'm seeing at the moment is people are too scared to outright defend the fascists, but like to imply that if the left just 'shut up' they would all just go away.

This all part of the false consciousness narrative to try and keep people demoralised from street-level activism which the right know they are losing. Don't fall for it.

I don't think so. What you call SJWs has been around way before the year 2000 but only since ~2014 we see an abnormal increase in fascist activity. I think the refugee crisis is the key factor. The east has been under destructive influences for decades but now with the war in Syria huge amounts of foreigners enter a relatively homogeneous population. I think being accepting towards foreigners is good and ultimately pragmatic but there's no denying that it's seemingly easier to be accepting as long as there aren't really that many foreigners. Of course this difficulty in acceptance doesn't result from innate qualities of the foreigners but from the economic conditions the foreigners lived under before they came to Europe like for example a foreigner lacking basic education so when confronted with no prospects for a job resulting in complete detachment from the labor force he will turn to crime or to welfare. Just to clarify, I'm not saying that a person would be right in blaming the foreigner here since it's a matter of economic conditions but the average liberal won't go this far in his analysis. Otherwise that liberal would have to confront a multitude of implications directly opposed to the ruling ideology i.e. he would have to confront a material analysis of world politics. Anyway, exactly this demographic factor has changed in Europe and especially for people in the lower skilled professions this results in a lot of angst and hostility since for them refugees mean direct competition and overall lower wages. Besides that recent history hasn't exactly done much in regards to building up economic confidence. I only have to remind you of 2008. As for America, I would say that through our modern means of communication this sentiment has swept over to America.

lads, I think I found a winner

SJWs are the reason people stopped caring about "white supremacists" because they watered it down too much

Well Tumblr libs certainly did turn away many people who could have been leftist, which left space for white supremacists to grow. No one who isn't a rabid SJW moralist using crybully tactics wants to represent "the left" anywhere anymore because you risk being sent death threats for a misworded sentence. The worse being that these people believe themselves to be the victim and you to be the agressor when they're harassing you, and as such when this stuff happens it's presented as more of a "controversy" than, say, when Holla Forums sent rape threats to feminists. They were immediately condemned. But no one on the left wants to publicly condemn SJW as they will harass you for years (See the abuse Mark Fisher received after Exiting the vampire Castle) (Don't get me wrong the article is sorta bad because he doesn't give any proof of what he's saying but it still didn't warrant this level of hatred).
In liberal America, the witches hunt you, I guess.

What the right has, or had as it is now more debatable, is solidarity. Never punch to the right and all that. What we on the left have, is constant outrage at the simplest of mistakes, endless reruns of the Stalinist purges by people who make a business of being offended. People build their social media careers on "virtue" (=not being sexist, racist, ableist etc. in any way), and then find out that there are more and more people who are virtuous as well, and they feel the need to exclude anyone who steps out of line because if they don't what made them special will be commonplace. The Tumblr left NEEDS most people to be racist, sexist and woman hater to be able to exist and function. And they have succeeded, because they've pushed away everyone who wasn't 110% woke. Left twitter/tumblr is like the most ruthless of free markets, only with "virtue signalling" as capital.

There's also the fact that people will defend Islam for literally anything, even though it's a reactionary religion. The latest example coming to mind is, in France, the Lallab controversy in which a "Muslim and Feminist" newspaper was taken out of a government program for not respecting the laicity rules (due to pressure from the far-right). People then came in with the classic #ISupportLallab, and anyone who dared criticize the newspaper was deemed Islamophobic, even though some articles had shit like "If the husband hits the wife lightly it's okay" and "The wife must submit to the will of the husband". Islam in social movements always ends up as being a reactionary abomination, and "progressive muslims" can say stuff that would get anyone a full inbox of death threats from the left without blinking, and with full support from the IdPol left. And, of course, anyone who objects to this sort of stuff is deemed Islamophobic and promptly expelled from the woke in-crowd.
Islam is an especially touchy subject that, I think, propelled the right to where it is right now because as said, these people don't deserve in any way to be left to die, but at the same time taking in a large number (I'm talking for European countries there, because Obama's America didn't give a shit about taking in refugees) of muslims is not something that should be treated lightly, and when some not too politicized mild progressists voiced their worry at the idea they were immediately shut down.

So the social and economical concerns were rising, and at the start only the far right voiced a different opinion on this topic, it being "Fuck the refugees let them drown". They got a shitton of media coverage, spent billions on propaganda while simultaneously whining about being silenced, which as a tactic was really obnoxious but worked pretty well.

All in all, while the "SJW"s were pretty important in shaping the alt right, they're in no way what made them rise and become more acceptable, it was mostly the refugee crisis, Trump's election because Hillary was a horrible candidate, and after this the internet campaign they ran snowballed. Though the "SJW"s did turn many people away from the left.

Well I was for a bit, a few years back, and while most people on Holla Forums were already antisocial and somewhat reactionary to start with, seeing the mental illness fetishizing rabid tumblr left certainly reinforced people in their own conviction. Most of the "Alt-Light" (People who like edgy provocators like Milo, not legit Nazis) are weird lonely college kids who were shat on by the latest campus culture wars. Kill All Normies is really worth the read.

To some extent, crying wolf has left conservatives used to defending "Nazis." That said, conservatives have also been spouting loads of their own bullshit about fascism for years - up until pretty much a week or two ago, there were still routine attempts to claim liberal Democrats were responsible for the Klan and that Nazis were socialists. And southern conservatives were already used to being Confederate apologists, a fact that northern conservatives often actively ignored because it was inconvenient when they were allying with them.

But as others have pointed out, the funding for right wing ideology and the GOP's shift still further rightward have had more impact in fostering these groups directly.

literally this