How do we put a stop to this menace?
How do we put a stop to this menace?
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Something tells me you wouldn't be calling this idpol if activists woulda replaced it with a statue of Barney The Dinosaur or a fucking unicorn.
I see no problem with this.
Something tells me you wouldn't be sowing dissent among the working class if you bothered to read any theory.
Dissent? It's a fucking statue. Whoever gets triggered enough to sympathize with neo-confederates and the alt-right over it prolly ain't an ally anyways.
Confederates were pure cancer and traitors, why glorifying such scum? It'd be like Germany erecting Hitler statues.
A black guy having sex with a white woman would have been better.
what the fuck are you talking about idiot? half of america is getting triggered over statues are you asleep?
Yeah lets piss off the reactionary side of america so we can get fascism.
How about channeling the other side so we get socialism instead?
Neither of those will ever occur in America. Bet your sweet red ass America will remain capitalist until all is depleted and then get ready for Mad Max world
Literally my only problem with this is if the replacement statue was shitty.
I fully advocate replacing statues of confederate generals with statues of pregnant black women if the pregnant black women statues are well-made works in a classical vein. I assume we can commission such works. I'm not willing to compromise on this. Unless it's that one horrifying statue in Tennessee of the KKK guy looking like a fucking drunken maniac about to shoot somebody. We can literally just have somebody melt up a garbage can to replace that one.
You really need to watch "Threads" because that's why it's going to be like.
How do we know the woman is black ? The statue is unicolour.
It's the best conclusion. No more states, absolute anarchy, clan warfare. I'm pissed ill miss it
t. edgy teen
Why is Holla Forums so full of actual racists?
Here is a model of the replacement. Not shown here is the base the statue will be standing on. It will have the inscription THE ASS WAS FAT. It will look really classy because of the chosen fancy font with serifs and stuff.
Next time it needs to be a huge black benis
How can you look at the state of the world and not be an accelerationist
Because I've actually had to deal with the aftermath of violence and oppression. It's not some abstraction to me.
Obviously violence isn't an abstraction to a sub human slav, but im looking at the bigger picture
If you're not nice to me I won't ask you out of the prom. And you'll have to go with your mom like in your junior year.
They're "triggered" over their existence, not having them taken down. Only white supremacists want them up.
Is the prom really a thing? I never even went to my prom.
Yeah user it's still a thing.
>implying thats not my plan all along
I know they're still holding them, but does anyone actually give a shit? I think it's practically a vestigial tradition this point.
Its not though
Are Snowden and other whistleblowers? If so, so what?
idpol means laying your focus on identity. does erecting a statue convey that?
let's look concretely on the case here. we have one idpol right wing statue taken down. good. it was a symbol of class rule by division amongst workers.
in spite of this black people, the ones that had been the target of this right wing idpol, have put up a black pregnant woman.
does this divide the working class? does it represent a bourgeoise element and class unity by glossing over the class divide?
as far as i am concerned, it's probably not adressing class at all. that might be a pitty, but it does not contradict it either like the former statue on its place but rather represents defiance against what it stood for.
so it's all good. calling it out for being "idpol" is probably a triggered Holla Forumsack that doesn't even know what idpol means.
America needs a statue of Oliver Law to go up somewhere.
Go back to Holla Forums
Wait, they had a statue of Robert E Lee in their fucking CHAPEL?
CLASSCUCK LEVEL: OVER 9,000
They've been trying to take the Lenin stature down.
These statues are the new idpol distraction and you know it. Yesterday you wouldn't have had this discussion because nobody gave a fuck about statues. Now you do.
I bet you fags unironically shilled for transgender bathrooms back in 2013 too.
fucking southerners man.
I don't really know that much about american history during the slavery times. Did the confederates only had slaves? Is this why they are considered so bad or there is another reason?
The confederates are hated for 3 reasons
1. they tried to secede from the US, so they are essentially considered "rebel scum" by the ruling class for trying to disobey the holy constitution of burgerland
2. people claim they were "racist" because 100% of slaves were African-American. I don't really get it since the confederates considered yankees racist, too. in fact, their major talking point was that blacks were treated even more poorly in the north (which is partially true).
3. slavery. this is also pretty retarded since we make monuments to roman/greek culture all the goddamn time.
Personally though. I think the Robert E. Lee statue should be taken down. The people who live in Charlottesville by majority do not want it there. They should not be denied their democracy.
People vote for it ok. Taking down them for the lulz it's not ok.
Wait, didn't the US try to annex them? As far as I was aware they were never part of the USA.
What the fuck. You guy are telling me that those dixie cunts were actually the lesser evil?
You're right but the way board quality is there's no way we'll learn anything from it. Back in the Obama era it was trendy to be against idpol here now if you're against it everyone says you're either a right-wing shill or using it as a slur equivalent to "normie get out"
No one even remembers that BLM works for the plutocracy, Soros and The Ford Foundation are notable contributors. Everyone is only looking towards the present where the main danger is Donald Trump and those to his right, nobody is thinking where we'll be 4 years from now when Donald Trump is out and the economy in the gutter again and Obama 2.0 is in the White House.
Very few people will be calling the idpol left for what they are–capitalist apologists, anti-Marxists, social fascists and social-imperialists etc. because it's not trendy anymore. Already BLM are in a common law marriage with reactionary black nats despite the kitchen arguments over "Hoteps" and black homophobia/sexism. The black/"poc" right which dares not go further then liberalism and post-modern theory will seek a Mugabe/Zuma style approach to governance where "whites" are made the scapegoat for all the faults for capitalist society.
Eventually, the overblown and exaggerated style of the race/gender politics combined with the objectively horrible leadership of these liberals will lead to a swing towards the right. Then we will likely get something worse then Trump, perhaps an diabolicla synthesis of both white and non-white idpol currents that's uniquely American.
Already, it's happened that the focus has shifted from anti-fascism to anti-confederate monuments with the effect being we're tilting a windmills. Now those statues can all go to a landfill as far as I'm concerned but I have to confess that the fight against fascism and racism are different things. Fascism isn't merely or primarily racist but a form of class control and power that turns mass energy into a handmaiden to a plutocracy in crisis.
Neither social fascism in black face or unabashed fascism in white face is better then the other. It's mistake to think one clique is more reactionary then the other they all serve imperialism, they all attempt to preserve it by splitting the proletariat in one way or the other. They are synergistic in that sense.
Because you have the wrong reason. People don't think they were racist because all the slaves were black, all the slaves were black because of racism. At the time of secession, the south used religion (by which I specifically mean Bible passages about bad people being turned black and slaves obeying their masters) and racialism to justify their system of slavery.
The south was genuinely afraid of a society where black people had normal rights. This is also why a number of confederate sympathies after the war were manifest in groups like the Ku Klux Klan, the White Man's League, and a whole host of other groups. This was a substantial point of the film The Birth of a Nation - the end of the Civil War and start of the Klan. For decades afterwards the south rallied around maintaining white supremacy in law. It's not that the north wasn't bad, but southern society was objectively bigger on racism.
There's a pretty huge difference between celebrating the imagery of an ancient, foreign culture and celebrating a failed revolt a century or two ago on your own shores by people who were (to a major extent) fighting specifically to maintain slavery in a time when the practice was ending.
It was put to a vote before "Unite the Right."
they annexed texas and california but that has almost nothing to do with the civil war.
You know, this has revolutionary potential.A pregnant black mother in a poor neighborhood might be the biggest victim of capitalism and the racism it helps create. What if we were to hail this statue as an expression of the working class? Sure the activists may have idpol in mind, but we could use this as a way to direct the narrative back to class.
Things like this make me want to become a third worldist
But will Americans really care about the people in the third world enough to erect a statue.
Who could fucking guess? I guess its their democratic right though guis Xdd
Except wait, were the local's ever asked if they wanted niggers living with them?
Really FIRES THOSE NEURONS HUH?
Is that "something" called COMMON SENSE?
God damn you are a stupid one
they are 70% white though?
if they cared they would have spoken out against it…
holy shit the mental gymnastics in this post
Really not. But honeslty the game of "he's a bigger victim of capitalism" is really fucking dangerous. Plus the fact that is a black woman will not help us shake off the liberal stigma that has been inflicted to us. But still if you manage to convert the meaning in class conflict is better than nothing. Problem is that the statue is not putted there in the place of a confederate for that. Removing the bull from wall street and putting something there it will be the perfect thing honeslty. One can dream
Yo negro. Try to post a different pic from time to time ok?
What? No. The Federal Government was considering outlawing slavery as a whole. The Southern States got butthurt because their entire economy ran on the backs of slaves and they'd obviously and immediately lose out to Northern states and become the poor inbred rednecks they always were.
Rather than that, they attempted to secede, and banded together (into a confederacy) to fight off the rest of the states still in the union. The Federal Government basically told them "You can't fucking secede just to ignore our laws while continuing to enjoy everything we built, and I've got the United States Army that says so."
The South responded with "Bring it on nigger-lovers, we got the good ol' boys and ten times more grit."
The South lost, largely because once the slaves started taking every opportunity to escape, their economy did indeed crumble, and the Union started to out-macro them.
It was incredibly needlessly bloody on both sides, the South never really let go of the idea that they're a proud independent state that don't need no feds, and the confederate flag persists to this day to uphold the ideal that "One day we'll be economically relevant and powerful again, and then we'll call the shots." The rest of the U.S. never really had the heart to forcibly strip them of that stupid pride, even though we probably should've.
Instead it just keeps festering as a really pointless resentment with racial and socioeconomic memes that gets passed from father to son like a goddamn religion.
They did, and it did not matter. Do you realize that it is illegal to deny inhabitants based on race? In virginia, the local government forces counties to take section 8. You have no fucking idea what you're on about.
Lmao buddy, charlottesville is not 70% white, you go there and your car will be broken into. There's no 'mental gymnastics' in my post, just a liberal helping of logical consistency.
Have you ever considered that the south didn't have a navy or ports for that matter, and their primary market was overseas?
"durr fo dujhhh slave, NIGGA? dey build america nigga muhfuggin EVERYTHNAG IS COTTON NIGGA!"
This is you. You are a stupid nigger. Read history.
1. They basically controlled Congress before the rise of Lincoln. This was largely a power bid to maintain control, either in Congress through some forced concessions, or as their own independent nation.
2. The Confederate states were much more conspicuously racialist than the northern states and pushed this idea of a "natural" racial hierarchy where blacks were a subservient race meant to serve whites and that slavery was the proper state of nature for black people. The North was racist, but lacked this sort of ideology.
3. The slavery of the Greeks and Romans was considerably different from that of the chattel slavery practiced by European colonies, not to mention the historical context (this occurred during the Enlightenment when loads of thought challenged this sort of economic system vs ancient Greece and Rome where anti-slavery thought hadn't quite developed yet, so it was just seen as a natural part of any civilized society) and the explicitly racialist nature of it, where blacks from Africa were explicitly targeted for slavery, as opposed to the Greeks and Romans who were more "equal opportunity" in their slaving, usually taking slaves from conquered tribes and city-states.
The war wasn't about slavery.
It was about expanding slavery.
Putting confederate statues down is retarded.
Anyone here knows a bit of kinography 101?
Birth of a nation probably the most racist thing ever put to film, probably top 5 most important movies of all time. We should burn all the copies?
Not him, but Charlottesville is 70% white. Google is at your fingertips.
Explain to me how taking down confederate monuments is as bad as banning black people.
How. You have to understand the slippery slope risk of this kind of shit
there are people out there who think using the word "nigger" should be a crime.
All SJWs must die tbh.
Lincoln was the first hard anti-slave president. Originally, though, he only wanted to stop slavery from spreading, which would have marked the beginning of the end for the political dominance of the slave states.
Take down all the fucking statues. No more identity politics, no more false idols. They'll either piss off one group or another. Just take them all fucking down.
Lincoln was an imperialist dictator. Reminder that the North Attacked first. If anything Lincolns altruistic motives were spooky as fuck.
They are taking down statues in name of idpol and putting other statues in their place, this time a black pregnat woman. Literally peak idpol
There is absolutely nothing artistically important about Confederate statues. They aren't works of art, they're mass produced kitsch that were primarily erected in the Jim Crow and Civil Rights eras as propaganda for white supremacy. Did you notice how the statue in Durham was toppled easily by a few people tugging on it and immediately crumpled when it hit the ground? That's because it was cheap crap like all Confederate statues. You're defending racist lawn flamingoes.
That last one sounds a bit Manifest Destiny, too.
On the White League:
- Mississippi, from their declaration of secession
- South Carolina, declaration of secession
- Texas, declaration of secession
Slavery was no longer profitable. The Civil War was peddled by the northern companies who wanted to industrialize the south.
There's nothing wrong with aggression against a slave society. I accept that the war was aggressive as it should have been, Lincoln was completely in the right.
In addition, Sherman did nothing wrong.
No they didn't.
The best I've heard from apologists is that the North provoked the Confederates into firing on Fort Sumter.
The war was caused by the South seceding in an attempt to preserve slavery. There would have been no war if not for that.
Exactly, the South would've fallen on its own merits. Lincoln sent people to die for no reason
You're no better than Americans raiding Vietnam in the name of spreading some motherfucking FREEDOM
There would've been no war if the North had just went about their business you mean. The justification for starting the civil war was all spooks.
Except North Vietnam was the emancipatory force in that war and Uncle Ho was a great man.
Unlike the Confederacy, which was fighting to maintain the system of slavery, not throw off the colonialist yoke.
Going to repost this again from another thread because it seems a lot of people don't know about that
Interesting link regarding the statements of the seceeding states, pretty reactionary but interesting non the least civilwar.org
That alone warranted an invasion of that rogue state.
Actually read Stirner, you illiterate fuck.
completely false. The south was producing enough for self-sufficiency.
again, that's now how capitalism works. you think the Gulf War was "for no reason"? no. it was to make an extra profit. not that I agree with it, but it's a reason.
The war was over imperialism. It was started over a territory dispute and the north attacked first. Put yourself in the place of the average Northerner, why would they care about people owning slaves in what was effectively a completely separate country?
You know why the North began accepting slave escapees from the South? Because Lincoln wanted to increase his recruitment pool. Emancipation was about increasing the size of the Union armies. That's it
Except this is a hypothetical. The situation at the time was that they had slavery. The situation for decades was that they clung to segregation and white supremacy as hard as they could. We have no evidence that they'd abandon it soon whether it dragged them down or not.
Their position was defensive. If the south had no intention for war, why were they prepared to fire on them?
Were yanks proto-neoliberals?
We need to kill soft-ethnonationalism (i.e. "intersectionality.")
The average Northerner really didn't see it that way. New York for example wanted to secede from the North and South just to be able to trade with both. This was back during a time where States still had some semblance of autonomy unlike the Federal shithole we live in today.
You mean seceding to preserve slavery.
No, the South attacked first. It fired on Fort Sumter.
For the same reason that I care for the international proletariat being oppressed in other countries, because it was an evil, oppressive system. And, while the oppression of the proletariat in the modern day is pretty bad, it still pales in comparison to the horrors of the slave system. John Brown had the right idea, my friend, I wouldn't have waited for an official declaration of war.
Because they disagreed with the slave system and the influence of the slave states in politics had greatly waned.
You're extra stupid. Fighting a war, leading to the deaths of thousands of military age men, wouldn't have increased the government's military recruitment pool you fucking retard.
I highly recommend reading Marx's articles commenting on the civil war. They're fascinating in my opinion.
Maybe because the North was much bigger and Lincoln wasn't afraid to flex his muscles?
You keep saying this, but it's not actually true.
Slaves were being harbored in the North before Lincoln was even elected. The Fugitive Slave Act was specifically created to make them stop doing that. After the south seceded, there was no need to compromise with them on that.
That's neither here nor there.
Autonomy to do what?
Yes, but you still fail to tell me why the North should've cared other than
which proves my point
Ideology didn't start with Marx. Lincoln and the early Republican Party were very ideological, especially in their opposition to slavery.
Yes, a big chunk of the war was the practical matter of preserving the union, but the ultimate purpose behind this was putting an end to the slave system, either slowly (keeping it to the states where it had spread) or immediate abolition, which is what actually happened.
Being shot at pretty much immediately after the secession in a """"pre-emptive strike."""" If the North didn't trust the South, we have no way to prove them wrong after that.
Statues of Bookchin of course.
The Confederits were shit, but the fact that they were trators to the US is there only good quality. Don’t attack them for that.
There’s a solution for that.
Don’t make statues of Random black women. Make statues of Bookchin, Bernie, and Eugene V Debs.
Bad tastes, to much of a good think is bad.
wtf I side with the police on the statue thing now.
wtf I’m a confederate now
As much as I hate that smug Jew but I can't deny that putting up statues of him would be better then would they did.
Hmm even if those ports would open they wouldn't have shit to export without slaves you stupid faggot
UNION WAS RIGHT MARCH TO THE SEA BEST DAY OF MY LIFE
LINCOLNS ONLY MISTAKE WAS DIEING EARLY AND NOT PURGING ALL THE PLANTATION OWNING SCUM
im sure they asked the slaves if they wanted to move to plantations too
Um, yes they did.
Loosers want their revanche. History is categoric : they were traitors and slaverists. What else?
Snowden : traitor and whistleblower
Confeds : traitors and slaverists
Sense when was Bookchin a jew? He’s a New Englander.
when did the north fire the first shot?
From birth :
Was that a scientific poll, or was it just a poll of their listeners.
Though, to be honest, it doesn't really matter what they think.
Bingo. The war was economic but because the economy of the slave states was entirely dependent upon slavery, slavery was the key issue. The "muh states rights" aspect of it was basically a response to the northern, industrialized states shitting on the south via control of the government to bolster their own economies.
But user, it's the ultimate troll
do nothing what so ever
Most of the links here are dead, but I've got what you want. All you Confederatefags need to read this, obviously.
Gulag time for reactionaries who defend the stupid monuments.
Unicorns and Barney are not identites. In fact, that's a good idea. We should replace statues with silly shit that has nothing to do with anything. Replace the statue in Charlottesville with a statue of Sonic the Hedgehog. Give it blue arms to piss off Chris-Chan.
we do know that Holla Forumsyps enjoy the black man's pembis
"states rights" is dog whistling for expanding slavery, fuck off