Whats your honest opinion about this country ?

whats your honest opinion about this country ?
is it what communism should be like?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_won#2009_revaluation
youtube.com/watch?v=oULO3i5Xra0),
reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1bs314/i_recently_produced_a_north_korea_travel/c9a0gnc/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_North_Korea#2009_Songun_Constitution
country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-9558.html
docdroid.net/9oceFLp/ellen-brun-jacques-hersch-socialist-korea-a-case-study-in-the-strategy-of-economic-development-monthly-review-press-1976.pdf
rhizzone.net/articles/songbullshit/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_of_the_Commission_of_Inquiry_on_Human_Rights_in_the_Democratic_People's_Republic_of_Korea
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songun#Economic_implications

It's a socialistic country trying to survive imperialism and self-sustain during an economic war by the world capitalist hegemony. You can't establish communism under these conditions.

decent CGI skyscrapers. also nice digits.

Juche doesn't strive for communism

In theory yes.

they arent socialist and dont even claim to be. I support the Korean proletariat against the despotic rule of both N.Korea and S.Korea and against US imperialism.
Fuck the Kim dynasty and fuck S.Korean ultra capitalism.

It's not South Korea, so bonus points there.

Not even remotely.

We don't know much about it because its very secretive. Also it's in distress as it has the world up against it so things may not be in great shape.

Really poor country, probably shirt for most people to live in. The only reason they're demonized more than the dozens of other poor countries in the world is their antagonism to the US (i.e. not rolling over and letting the US do whatever they want). It's obviously not a "communist" country though.

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look mom i posted it again

Soviet Democracies are socialist.
I dont really like the whole kim libe thing on the central chair, but, yeah it is socialism.

Junche is literally focused around communism.

Soviet Democracies are socialist.
I dont really like the whole kim libe thing on the central chair, but, yeah it is socialism.

Junche is literally focused around communism.

Soviet Democracies are socialist.
I dont really like the whole kim libe thing on the central chair, but, yeah it is socialism.

Junche is literally focused around communism.

It is a curious beast. What do you call a society where there is little commodity production but is controlled by a small family that uses the wealth produced by workers to create a military force which it then uses to stay in control? It is like some bizarre industrial feudalism.

Bullshit

War communism?

No, there are no aristocrats in war communism.

lmao brainlets think this has any relevance.
dprk economy is a socialist economy. the fundamental structure and ordering of their system is essentially identical to all socialist states of the 20th century. unlike china, vietnam, even cuba, the dprk has not undergone any capitalist reforms.
whether or not they are "communist" has literally no effect as there is zero possibility of that becoming reality until we see another wave of world revolution (which north korea will likely support, judging by their solidarity with socialist and communist movements worldwide)

t. cointel/pol/

Fedualism with socialist characteristics.

HHHNNNGGG

wow nice argument
please document the extensive reform that the economy of the dprk has undergone since the 20th century - and it's transition to capitalism.
i'll wait

It may not be capitalism, but it sure as fuck isn't socialism. An aristocratic ruling class controlling the means of production while doing absolutely nothing to elevate the working class is not socialism by any definition.

That's pretty much perfect.

TRIGGERED

Not as bad as people say it is, in fact recently I've been interested in Juche and how it can be used outside North Korea.

No,

What's your honest opinion about this country?
Is it what capitalism should look like?

Norks are explicitly no longer pursuing socialism, so no. Kill yourself.

target of imperialism, so it's definitely struggled with famine/disease/poverty. difficult to assess internal structures because of lack of information.

The Norks renounced Marxism back in the 1990's in exchange for Juche, which from what I've read sounds like nationalism with red flags and a fixation on the Kim family being benevolent patriarchs of the country. I don't quite care as they don't seem like marxists anymore. The south is a capitalist hellhole and the US has a hate boner for the country so I'm inclined to be sympathetic to them if I could tell what was true and what was propaganda about the country.

A) They're not democracies in terms of how the word "democracy" is understood beyond Leninists; we've been over this.
B) They aren't socialist as they did not abolish the value form.
They formally renounce socialism regardless and yet you "anti-imperialists" support them anyways because you desperately need a father figure powerful state to reaffirm your beliefs and self worth, even if it openly denounces you. What cuckolds you are.

It never underwent any transition to capitalism because it was always capitalist.

communist monarchy.

from what i saw in documentary, its closer to a monarchy then communism.
it has a king, a "nobility class", a bourgeois class and the poor peasant class.

laughing at how much of a brainlet you are rn. the economic model of the dprk is identical to 20th century socialist states. how the leader is decided has absolutely no bearing on how the economy relates to the working class.

You are an idiot who clearly knows next to nothing about the country. If you did you would know that "defending the socialist system" gets mentioned near constantly in official communiques.
They have "officially renounced" COMMUNISM - which is totally irrelevant because they have no hope of achieving that by themselves anyway.

its alot more isolated, though. Its most similar to socialist Albania id say, not a 'normal' ML state

well yeah, but that's basically an outside imposition.
you can connect that to their change in ideology as well - from internationalist communism to ultra self-reliant juche.

not entirely. Juche also is rooted in korean peoples deep disdain for colonialism and outsider interference, leading to a DIY mentality. Furthermore the reverent way in which the kims are treated is more relatedd to their history as an isolated kingdom as well as the influences of heavy korean confucian culture. Juche is a particularly korean interpretation of ML

social feudalism

Well there's not really any nations in their hemisphere who they can freely trade and interact with without also dismantling their socialist system.

Juche is a bastardization of Marxist principles and is essentially a reactionary ethnostate now. That being said, their resistance to American imperialism is comendable.

just a basic political bogyman to keep the masses focusing on an external enemy instead of looking inside

Yes it looks like that.

yeah sure, allowing american globalism in their country with their McDonald's, Hollywood crap and cancerous pop music is just a "political bogyman", it sure won't transform the people into retards like everywhere else where they were allowed to instal their useless shit.

They abandoned Communism long ago and are now slowly but surely transitioning from planned economy into Dengism.

Songun - military first policy - basically means "We handle the military - civil society handle the economy". Private ventures flourish in Pyongyang and in the countryside, where peasants are now allowed to possess small acres of land of private usage.

Tourism has been almost entirely left to private companies under state overseeing.

Juche, so-called self-reliance, is a mirage ; they depend almost entirely on China.

They have an hidden but real sense of racial superiority (look for the "Cleanest Race" and how they treat Chinese who venture into their borders).
Their political system is an absolute Monarchy bordering on Theocracy (Kim-Il Sung is fucking Eternal President for Life, if that's not a cult what is it ?)

They also seem to have copied the Putin system to handle dissent by projecting their feeble power over the world to placate citizens - because, believe it or not, more and more citizens grow critical of the regime - as demonstrated how they heavily protested a Money reform back in 2009.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_won#2009_revaluation

Lastly, there is clearly a nomenclatura of muh privileged friends of the regime who enjoy Western luxuries and commodities, as demonstrated by the final part of this documentary (youtube.com/watch?v=oULO3i5Xra0), where the author is in a big spa and some DPRK denizens enjoy themselves there.
reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1bs314/i_recently_produced_a_north_korea_travel/c9a0gnc/

In short : DPRK is just another dictatorship with red aesthetic and a vaguely Marxist history. Stop sucking their tiny Asian dicks off.
But still, they deserve independence and a place in the world. For all the bad I've said, the DPRK does have a remarkably good healthcare and life standards have improved dramatically over the last few years (possibly thanks to their privatisation of the economy…)

Listen up, nobody says that the DPRK is heaven on earth (how could they be when they are basically isolated from the rest of the world without much fertile ground), the point is that they are actually socialist with certain Korean characteristics (Supreme Leader as a rallying point). They have worker control (worker state + workplace democracy) over the MoP, production for use and no private property.

Juche is patriotic, but not racist, not ethno-nationalist and it doesn't operate with a fucking caste system; I can't believe people regurgitate that shit without any sources whatsoever but with vague hearsay from western authors who engage into speculation. It's typical for the laziness of the modern left, which anybody can behold in this thread, to label everything they dont want to defend in front of liberals because it would make them look bad with buzzwords like "social feudalism" or "ethno-nationalist monarchy" and bullshit like that. Because god forbid some brain-rotten anarkiddie or autistic leftcom would actually engage in a complex analysis of the North Korean predicament instead if outright discarding it for bonus points with liberals who watched The Interview. Meanwhile Cuba is "based" and all that for these pseudo-leftists even though they pretty much share more less the same political and economic system with the DPRK (Che even said that the DPRK is a model Cuba should strive for) but because they aren't Latinos with Salsa, cigars, unbuttoned shirts and thicc asses but scary yellow people who like to march in a line they get dumped upon by some armchair leftist with a meme ideology on a Mongolian throat singing board. Really just fucking sad.

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Please be bait

My meaningful typa socialism right there bub.

Tankie doing some hardcore mental gymnastics to not mention the fact that the powers is passed from father to son in the DPRK..as in the UK, Spain, Sweden, Belgium, The Netherlands.

Not anymore. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_North_Korea#2009_Songun_Constitution

Our king hardly has any power though.
Not that I wouldnt want them gone.

shit

Kings in these countries have literally zero power and just have a purely honorary function.

Which makes it even worst! Because in the DPRK the king at least hold all the powers and the destiny of the nation. In those countries i mentioned the king has little to no power and still leeches off the people.

I would rather have an expensive welfare leech as opposed to a monarch tbh.

North Korea is Best Korea.
Unique country in the world as is the only one who has resisted pressure from the outside and give up their culture and way of living, as they were smart enough to pursuit nuclear weapons before Israel/USA could do anything about it unlike Libya, Syria Iraq and very likely Iran.
People are allowed to pursuit a decent life and are isolated from modern day degeneracies who can only be a good thing

England being a monarchy gives them a fuckton of money in tourist traps

country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-9558.html

Yea that shitty argument gets used here too. Its a lie. Tourists dont come for a queen they dont get to see, they come for the palaces.

Very convincing

They buy souvenirs with the Queen face on it and take photo of the royal Guards.
It's by the way a very small part of the budget.

Oldest trick in the books

Full socialism bro. At least under neoliberal capitalism I get to choose my workplace

It's not an issue important enough to bitch about it.

pfft

That system has been observed by foreigners in person you spaz, this isn't just propaganda.
docdroid.net/9oceFLp/ellen-brun-jacques-hersch-socialist-korea-a-case-study-in-the-strategy-of-economic-development-monthly-review-press-1976.pdf


Holy shit, go protest for free weed or some shit like that. Are you unironically believing you can run a workplace by deciding every turn of a screw by a ballot? Do you think under socialism there would be no administrative work? I'm literally out of words. Go look how the Anarchist projects like the CNT-FAI organized their workplace. Have you ever worked a single hour in your life?

Also, what's that shit about not being able to chose your workplace? Do you think some soldiers abduct babies and train them for a certain profession? In the DPRK education is free and after you graduate, you are guaranteed to work in the field you studied in. There is no unemployment.

It seems like a really fucked up place to live in.

Are you the SuccDem who posts bullshit about the DPRK in every thread?
Is that why at the youngest party assembly they announced strengthening the centrally planned system of Kim Il Sung?
You know what a joint venture is right? They have joint ventures with foreign firms from Egypt for example to be able to provide their citizens with consumer goods they couldn't acquire otherwise due to the embargo, like Smartphones.
That's cooperatively organized or one-man-businesses who sell their surplus locally
Bullcrap. Economy is handled by the Comittee of the Supreme People's Assembly (their civil government) while the National Defense Commission (Supreme Leader) has the prerogative to deduct ressources from the civil sector due to the siege situation. The economy is meticulously planned.
Bullshit. rhizzone.net/articles/songbullshit/
That's 5% of their economy. DPRK is the most self-reliant and independent country in the world.

I think that a democratic republic is a terrible system of social organization but it is beyond any liberal to criticize it, especially considering how much better DPRK is than south korea(attempt at full liberalism).

i support it for the memes.

the situation in 1976 is completely different from now though man, both inside and outside NK.

The Taen Work System article is from 1993, after the fall of the Eastern Bloc and during the big crisis of the 90s (Arduous March). Since information about the DPRK is rare, we can only assume that the way the North Korean economy works hasn't changed much since Kim Il Sung unless we have explicit contrary information. At the party congresses they always emphasize traditional systems like the Taen Work System or the Ch'ongsan-ni Method so we have to assume it still works more or less same as it worked back in the day unless we have confirmation by either official statements or witness reports that it does otherwise. Yes, Special Economic Zones have been established but they are more of a sign of good will towards the outside world and also to supplement for the insane isolation buy they make a marginal percentage of the GDP and the bulk of the North Korean economy hasn't changed much besides some necessary joint-venture firms (which are necessary because you can't deny your population access to smartphones in 2017).

I'm beginning to wonder if you're not paid by Pyongyang.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_of_the_Commission_of_Inquiry_on_Human_Rights_in_the_Democratic_People's_Republic_of_Korea
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songun#Economic_implications
It's obviously biased, but no less your own sources.

The UN report clearly states that the regime has started to tolerate moderate market activity to combat black market. Case in point with the tourism industry.

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How is any of this communism?

Pretty good given its conditions. Worth defending.

Shut the fuck up, Schnitz.

I too like fascism with socialist flags.

What must it be like to be an ultra‐tankie and look east and see ruthless liberals and aristocrats waving red flags while they plunder the working class who get more revisionist and liberal every year and be like ‘fuck yeah, this is a decent and respectable trajectory, communism is right around the corner’

I'm not at all for the DPRK but I really do have to wonder if people ITT know what the fuck a "caste system" is.