Do you feel quilty for allowing him to get into office...

Do you feel quilty for allowing him to get into office? The far-left was just as responsible as the right for helping him get elected because they didn't side with Hillary and the Democrats. Hillary has her faults but there is no way she would have been this much of a disaster. Trump is putting the whole world at risk.

Other urls found in this thread:

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/06/lenin-white-house-steve-bannon
iwca.info/?p=10259
iwca.info/?page_id=1410
iwca.info/?p=10145

What good is accelerationism if the whole world is burning to the ground? Tell me please. I know you guys hate us social democrats but we're truly the only sensible leftists out there. Your extreminism will get us all killed.

Also

get fucked Hill shill

honestly this needless speculating over whomever would have been worse is just that: needless. Both were ruling class bourgeois capitalism enablers. The differences between them are damn near arbitrary.

They're clearly not the same. Jesus Christ. I know they're both capitalists but one is clearly worse than the other. Why don't you people understand this? What happens when this maniac starts WW3? It's entirely possible. What happens when he starts a race/civil war? It's also entirely possible. Your accelerationism is fucking retarded, dangerous and childish

Yes a racist neo-nazi sympathizer with zero political experience and a borderline retard is on the same level as Hillary Clinton. Yes totally. NO DIFFERENCE. AT ALL.

Hillary lost because she didn't campaign in Wisconsin and Michigan. Simple as that.

it wouldn't have been any different than if Hillary started it instead.

That's true but if I get to choose between having my dick chopped off or being for fed a drug that would initialize me it I'd probably choose the latter.

Unlikely. Material conditions aren't set up for fascists to take over.
Plenty of Trump fags advocated for civil war if Hillary got in. Again, what's your point? Besides, good. Wouldn't mind seeing fascists getting shot at and killed.

Hillary was not going to start WW3 only alt-autists who listen to InfoWars make this claim meanwhile Trump has legitimately destabilized the whole world for the worst. This is what happens when you allow a mentally disabled egomaniac into office

Why does the left support Russia which is run by a far right fascist? I don't get it. And no. Hillary wouldn't have started war with Russia this is also a myth, advocating for a no-fly zone that stops the Assad regime from continuing to massacre innocents is not the same as started a war with Russia. Also I'd argue that Russia relations are worse under Trump than under Obama.

starting*

"Socialism is when the government does things" tier analysis, comr8.

No because if commies ever got into power Trump would be publicly executed
You can blame liberals for being such ineffective retards

...

fuck off Hitlery

That's true let me see here.

One of them: Is a complete and utter moron who will never get anything he wants. He will be hounded by the media every time he so much as sneezes and can't even keep his own cabinet from stabbing him in the back.

The other one: Successfully convinced the first black president to aid and abet genocide of black people in Libya, and then got the media to praise her for doing it.

One of these is really fucking dangerous and its not the one you're thinking of.

No guilt at all.
1) Technically his position and action with regards to Hillary is still moderate.
2) Establishment democratic policies have been discredited: they couldn't even beat trump.

Time for the clintons to step aside. The new democratic party, with actual progressive ideas will take it from here.

Not particularly. But I do really, really, really, really regret allowing Bush Jr. into office.

Go back to reddit.

Nah. If anyone has a prayer of bringing the system down, it's this guy in the WH. Now that Bannon is free to fuck shit up without a leash on him, we'll be even closer to that.

We've made socialism acceptable and have now shown a crystallized form of what we oppose in the president and his followers. This is a major win. With economic conditions getting worse in the next four years, we will not only have the young adults of today, but we will have the youth too. Your ideology is dying. You cannot stop the future.

im an accelerationist, so no I'm happy with Trump running things to the ground.

Also, fuck the bitch - clinton wouldve started WWII

Clinton advocated a war with Russia, so fuck that shit. Yeah she was going to start WWIII, the generals admitted the no fly zone meant war with Russia.

No - it's up to whatever parties are there to put up a winning candidate and strategy. They're not entitled to anyone's vote.
Rs did that, so they deserved to win; I'm not saying that as someone in a comfy position - I'm a black Muslim but it's not like Hillary was planning on ending racism. All she stood for was "not Trump" and nothing else.

She was pushing for a NFZ which could only be achieved by going to war against Russia and Syria. Did she expect people not to believe her when she was saying that? I'm not sure what use gender equality is to you after you've been roasted by a nuke, perhaps you could explain that.

the no fly zone means WAR with Russia, because there are Russian air elements in Syria.

And people support Russia because the US is basically bullying them out, and no in Russia the right sees him as a liberal

Trump is objectively worse than Hillary. The silver-lining however is Trump gets torched and put on the spot for a lot of the things that Hillary would have easily gotten away with. People are finally paying attention to neo-lib antics because a madman is doing them.

The only one to blame for hillary losing is worst campaigner in US history hillary clinton

Back to reddit!

How do you figure? There can be no one worse than the multinational corporate conglomerates and their puppets.

Trump is just fucking shit up and tearing them down. And so far he's done a semi decent job at keeping the US out of war.

The other side is pure idpol d&c

With Trump in the WH the govt barely functions. Which is a good thing as it only functions to make my life worse so fuck it.

Maybe I did not say this right.
Trump as president:
Hillary as president:

You mean objectively worse for the American state? That sounds objectively good for us.

haha, the fact you guys have a significant Hillary-Clinton supporting contingent makes your leftist revolution talk all bullshit. When push comes to shove most of you are just basic bitch liberals, sad.

Please, do not mind the reddit. I think they came from 4pol this time. Do mind the reddit, the standards of bullying them has slipped greatly.

That makes more sense.

But just pay attention to the list of people and groups that hate him on daily basis, what they hate him for, and then ask yourself why they hate him and want you to hate him too.


This. And I've become more curious about Bannon the more I've read about him. He's a mystery and he courts Alt Right faggots, but there is something interesting about his desire to bring everything down. Closet anarchist?

I prefer my adversaries to have dumb and incompetent leadership to them having experienced and crafty leadership. Trump adminstration is collapsing upon its own incompetence, I doubt they even have the capability to start a war.

I have the same impression of Bannon. His success fighting against the establishment ranks him higher than a standard republican.

According to the polls after the election, the vast majority of the votes she lost (as compared to Obama's 2008 and 2012 campaigns) were from minority communities in the Rust Belt. That wasn't the far left's doing but the Democrats' own as these communities became measurably more impoverished during Obama's eight years.

The politics of identity they promoted also went nowhere politically in 2016 or, rather, didn't provide any identity justification for voting for a rich white woman. "Intersectionality" is utterly meaningless when there's no material reason for the intersection beyond being oppressed as how I regard myself as oppressed and how much I regard myself as oppressed may differ entirely from yours, especially if I maintain it's impossible to truly communicate my special pain from it to anyone outside my identity.

Me personally, I hate having to worry about my health care being taken from me. I'm on meds that cost 700 dollars a month that I could not have without obamacare and the subsequent Medicaid expansion. The thought of having to go back into crippling debt at the ER again kinda makes me bias against trump.

I read that he considers himself a Leninist. That's probably bullshit but I got a boner.

Maybe?

He comes from a proletarian background

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/06/lenin-white-house-steve-bannon

...

Pretty much, yeah. Hillary Clinton is a murderous, incompetent, neoliberal cunt which is hardly any different from the murderous, incompetent, neoliberal cunt who got elected.

????????

Just what the fuck is Steve Bannon? He's a madman, it's hilarious.

Socialism with a Human Face as a Party Mask

I honestly don't know what to think. I don't want to get my hopes up but on paper he sounds great.

You should have just stated that outright. Clinton is widely despised here and the board wanted Trump to win due to the massive shitshow you have witnessed and we predicted a year ago.

...

You must have this place confused with Reddit or Daily Kos.

Please neck yourself

Yeah he's an odd duck. I read an article that he wanted to raise taxes on the rich instead of a tax break. Definitely anti war. Not 100% why he's on the right. I am sure when I find out I'll disavow all my posts.

Actually no, it is Hillary supporters fault for not supporting Bernie.

this thread courtesy of NeoLib Gang

For real. Who was it that rigged the primaries again? Oh yeah.

True, but do you remember when the Bernie supporters alienated all of the Clinton supporters by constantly deriding them as hillgrills in the media? Oh wait.

I just did a bit of reading on him because I only knew him from being from spergcentral, Breitbart. In the navy, investment banker, worked in climate research, I bet this guy has some unironic nuclear takes to dish out.

Don't pay attention to Ameriburger definitions of right or left.

The American left is thoroughly spooked. And I'm going to bet that at least the "right" was willing to hear him out.

In a world where the liberal "left" is porky, the "right" is antifascist

I agree that Hillary would be better than Trump. Still shit, but way better.

But it's not our fault that she failed to attract the left towards her.

Wew lad speak for yourself on this matter.

Hillary would of been an objectively better president, and Holla Forums would of been on fucking suicide watch for atleast 4 years. Props to every edgy moron who ran with the "chaos candidate", "I just wanna see it burn" type shit.

Totally checks out, considering recent events…

Nobody wanted Hillary.
Nobody is missing her.
Recent polls show that she is the only politician Trump can beat today.
Bernie Win.
Biden Win.
Fucking George W Bush beats trump and he started an illegal war.
And Hillary loses to Trump (recent polls).
But it's the progressives fault she lost..

The real objective worst out of all of this is the recent user spike of faggots, such as yourself.

JUST

Sorry the dems wanted to steal the primary from Bernie and lost because of it.

Dog bless the November 16 club.

Unless Bernie runs as a Republican, he has no chance of ever attaining an office higher than Senator.

Democrats will shut him out. Indy will fail

oh stfu. it's not the public's job to vote for your shitty candidate. It's the candidate's job to make them *want* to.

The neoliberal center-Dems, not the "far-left", are responsible for Trump by cheating Bernie Sanders out of the nom (who would have won) and telling people to nominate HRC instead (who was unpopular and lost). It's their fault. They told everyone to nominate an unpopular candidate, ran a shitty campaign, didn't have a message, didn't motivate voters, and fucking lost.

You can shove that 'far-left' shit right up your ass. The centrist fuckers own it.

hes not going to run as anything, far too old now, he 'lost' (cashed out)

Liberals aren't the Left. Get that through your head

The only real difference between Trump and other previous liberal presidents is that while presidents like Obama, Clinton, and Bush tried to use rhetoric and carefully worded justification though not so much for the last example to cover their actions, Trump has instead bragged and boasted about any action he undertakes and afterword, instead of backpeddling and giving some kind of platitude about why it may have been wrong but necessary, doubles down on it.

learn to read

just gtfo pls

I hope someone here got the attentionspan to read all of this (10 minute read): iwca.info/?p=10259

"Trump’s victory is arguably the final nail in the coffin of neo-liberalism. As a matter of anti-fascist urgency, identity politics must be killed with it. Once the ‘white working class’ is deemed a distinct political entity apart from the working class, you’re already on deeply dangerous ground. If the left designates that entity as the enemy, the road to fascism – de-globalised capitalism and racial tribalism – is effectively built (in Cohn’s words, in this election ‘white working class voters just decided to vote like a minority group. They’re >40% of the electorate’). Bobby Seale of the Black Panthers was of the view that ‘working class people of all colours must unite against the exploitative, oppressive ruling class… our fight is a class struggle not a race struggle.’ Today’s liberals and identitarians – who by and large haven’t been harmed by globalisation, and whose anti-democratic loathing is matched either side of the Atlantic – would regard this sentiment as appeasement: as Adolph Reed notes ‘we now have a “left” in the United States for which socialism is considered a marker of backwardness. It’s good that that is now clear; it’s always good to know where people stand in relation to class struggle‘. The preferred liberal tactic of calling all they find objectionable ‘racist’ and reducing every political issue to one of race – regardless of justification – isn’t simply factually incorrect, it’s actively counter-productive and an enemy of effective anti-fascism, and has now been exposed as such. Anti-working class and on the side of barbarism, in fact. None of this is to under-estimate the difficulty of overcoming America’s poisonous racial history, especially in the South, but there were efforts made on the left to do this in the ’60s and ’70s. What’s the excuse now? With Trump in the White House, how successful has the identity politics approach been? Ultimately Trump is the consequence not cause of that calamitous failure."

It's not our fault regardless you corporate shill

that's the point, lol


social democracy arguably isn'ytleftism


as opposed to clinton starting WW3 with Russia? Or her trying to wreck other countries?

Nov. 16 club?

Your bullshit centrist politics got us in this mess
fuck third way

Election month. Shit was both comfy and hilarious. Holla Forums were triggered by us shilling for Clinton as the Posadist candidate to the point I'm pretty sure some of them were crying, and when she lost we had a leftypol-Holla Forums general for laughing at liberals having breakdowns.

Liberals go to the gulag first

ahh ok.

Get out.

Godly trips leads us to victory

So you say, we don't have a responsibility to win our battles? I say we have ALL the responsibility to move forward our positions. I'm no american, but when I say "we" I mean "we" as in socialists. First we lost Sanders to Hillary, then Hillary to Trump. The biggest loss was loosing Sanders. I'm no stupid guy, so I realise Sanders wouldn't cause a revolution and "give" us the means of production. But he would have normalized Socialism, and with that moving our positions forward a little bit. It would have been a great step to radicalize the "left".

"In the end, the bastions of industrial-era Democratic strength among white working-class voters fell to Mr. Trump. So did many of the areas where Mr. Obama fared best in 2008 and 2012. In the end, the linchpin of Mr. Obama’s winning coalition broke hard to the Republicans. The Wyoming River Valley of Pennsylvania — which includes Scranton and Wilkes-Barre — voted for Mr. Trump. It had voted for Mr. Obama by double digits. Youngstown, Ohio, where Mr. Obama won by more than 20 points in 2012, was basically a draw. Mr. Trump swept the string of traditionally Democratic and old industrial towns along Lake Erie. Counties that supported Mr. Obama in 2012 voted for Mr. Trump by 20 points."

People got so butthurt over Sanders.
And their problem is economics>culture.

No, as I tried to explain. The butthurt isn't over Sanders. The pain lies in loosing the support of the white workingclass. And the reason is that the "left" has adopted middleclass politics and being full of idpols and SJWs. And Trumps victory was gauranteed by that.

I'm sorry for ever thinking you had anything valuable to say, get out.

So tell me what you think is right?

Really good read, thanks.

I am shocked you don't see the user's point. I said, If he gets the working class he wins. end of story. It's so simple once you understand 40% of electorate is white working class. And you realize that blacks and hispanics are very very interested in working class politics. I could see a future where Trump lurches left and attempts to ally with working class minorities. Don't get me wrong, he words are horrible and can't pull it off. But imagine if the guy didn't stick his foot in his mouth with regards to race? It is nice to believe that he won by ginning up racists, but it is pretty frightening to see how close he is complete dominance if it were for his racist problem.

I smoked a ludicrous amount of weed and it still sounds fucking retarded.

Out of curiosity, do you believe Russia interfered with the election.

I would even vote for Satan just to prevent Hillary Clinton from getting into office
t. Satan

Thank you yourself for reading, user. I'm not a member myself in IWCA (I live in another country). But I feel that they got a clear and healthy vision of how to organize the working class and build a successful workers movement.
If you feel like it, you should read their manifesto and "The need for a vision" 1 & 2.

Manifesto: iwca.info/?page_id=1410
Economic Democracy (the need for a vision) part 1: iwca.info/?p=10145

The second one is very heavy, but so rewarding. Impressive piece of work.

I hate America and I hate American politics.

So far the only thing he has done that she wouldn't have done was ‘consider pardoning’ Sherrif Joe. Also she absolutely would have started WWIII, read Shattered.

ARE YOU SERIOUS LET ME LAUGH HARDER HAHAHAHAHAHA

Don't discount that people in those states remember what her husband and his rich friends in business did to their jobs in the 90's. It's one of the reasons why they unanimously went for Obama in 2008. The DNC could've spent a fortune there and maybe only convince a small precentage of the voters to support her due to how deep Clinton hate is in the working class.

The Democrats were fucked once they ousted Bernie and the GOP had Trump come in and burn everything down.

Neo-liberalism was partly responsible for the dumb sexist hicks, who are partly responsible for Trump. Nothing wrong with that. Stop excusing the idiots who voted for him unironically. If someone felt betrayed by corrupt, corporate owned government, then don't vote in another even more corrupt, corporate owned cunt in the government.

How many levels of American exceptionalism are you on my dude?

Holy fuck that's the most american post I've seen in a while

America is still the exact same as it was under Obama.

Trump is the best thing that could have happened to us. He is destabilizing everything, while hillary would have continued the US murdering grip on the world.

I feel pretty great desu
Hillary is and remains a senile old criminal snake
Trump says what he means

Shit is getting crazier than I was expecting, but I don't regret shafting Hillary.

What I do regret is the Republicans taking Congress, but I should've seen that coming since the DNC was pulling money out of the state races to feed the Hillary machine. They were really betting on another '08 sweep.

german communists thought hitler was an accelerationist too, retards, and he utterly annhiliated their party as a force because they failed to realize the consequences of his gaining power. accelerationists are playing with fire, they think their convoluted belief in apathy will make everything solve itself when the rightwing just uses state power to reward and empower itself. It's nothing less than a slave doctrine and admitting one is powerless to do anything.

This. The Trump era has made Republicans look like absolute retards for supporting this train wreck, and the Democrats look just as bad for being unable to make any actual response beyond screeching about Russia. Hillary is awful, but she would have actually been able to govern competently giving the system some semblance of legitimacy.

They didn't. They stayed home. A pox on both your houses.

wtf is that first one? is that from one of her books?

at least trump had an opposition, clinton would prolly be as bad but with free hands

Trump has no meaningful opposition and Trump is not a meaningful opposition. He's just another neoliberal Porky who says colorful things every now and then to keep the racists onboard.

I'm really tired of people pretending that Trump is in any way, shape, or form a resistance to neoliberalism, or "anti-establishment" in any way. The Republicans know exactly what their base will eat up and let Trump win after a pathetic show of "resisting" Trump. It was all theater.

by who?

I kind of regret she didn't win. The SJWs would be more aggressive and the racewar would be closer.

If Trump starts a nuclear war he'll still have been a better prospect than endorsing the status quo with Hillary.

And I'm long past the nihilistic depression that first set that thought in motion.

No. She would have declared Syria as a no fly zone like she said she would, start a war with Russia and now you were atm being drafted to fight the russians for your "ZOG Occupied" Government

Why would I feel sorry for this allowing him in the office?

But he is…only that he doesn't know it about it. I listened the other day that he has spend a total of 51 days in golf course in Virginia.
That's a real lazy ass person. I had to work for 6 months to be given 11 day vacation and that lazy ass bastard is going to golf. He is destroying everything and isn't even realizing what he is doing…besides Trump is making the anti american sentiments growing as opposed to fucking Obama who was loved in EU countries just as much as he was in USA.

Supporting Trump to revitalize the Left has been going pretty well so far, I don't think people were wrong on this.
Yeah, if I was an American I'd be scared, but i can't say I regret the continual decline of american hegemony. There is no way out of this mess without a lot of pain, the real labour movement has been dormant for decades and needs a hard slap to wake up.

I honestly believe the syria war would not be winding down if Hillary had won.

How is trump any worse than the last two presidents? Is it because you are an establishment liberal that gets gas lighted by his tweets and you have come to the realization he aint leaving for 4 years?

Obama bailed out the banks, foreclosed on millions of homes, expanded the surveillance state.

Bush started a bullshit war that killed thousands and crashed the economy.

But trump is big ol meany poopy head >:(

I honestly think the trump win was positive because the democrats, globalists, and liberal cosmopolitan class needed a hard slap on the face about identity politics

This too, the neolibs needed to lose if the far left was to be revitalized. The far left has been in a coma since the cold war ended.
The reality is the more the democrats fail the more people will look to the far left for answers.

EU citizens can think whatever they want about the American president, the EU is still just a vassal of the US. The point is, aside from being a national embarrassment, Trump doesn't change anything. The MIC still chugs along, Trump doesn't set foreign policy in any real way, and business continues as usual. I'm looking at what has happened and I don't see a President Hillary doing a thing differently.

Syria either was never going to be more than it was, or will eventually be a full-scale intervention as soon as the time is right. Of course Hillary was talking tough on Syria but it's just the generic tough talk all Republicans engage in when they want to win (and Hillary was basically a Republican, so she'd probably stand idly by and kill welfare by a thousand cuts).

Sure, Donald Trump is trying to appeal to the right-wing, but I think he also has some good leftist/centrist views.