Just missing the mark

youtube.com/watch?v=8vMypCinkRk&feature=youtu.be

Why do most of the fash philosophers/politicians/leaders actually get quite close to addressing the class problem but never quite reach and always end up falling behind into class cuckoldry?

As much as leftypol says that they are simply flashy capitalists, it doesn't really seem accurate to me. Seems as much of a strawman as polacks saying that marxists are simply globalists in disguise. Orcs vs Humans tier mentality.

The fash was obviously a legitimate ideology when you read about it, but what really are they? Mussolini and Mosley both seemed really socialist in some aspects but then dipped in some capitalist sentiments. The fact syndicalism was one of the main factors in the formation of fascism is another interesting point.

So putting all memes beside about bashing the fash, what really are fascists? I'm referring to Mussolini/Mosleyite/Falangists etc not le epic racialist Nazis btw

Other urls found in this thread:

media.8ch.net/file_store/7ef13360d4c7faccd0a77b7d2459d439962e73b14d51fc116d3590731524a7ab.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Jew
njfac.org/index.php/suicide-and-unemployment-in-japan/
nakedcapitalism.com/2013/07/the-decline-and-fall-of-detroit.html

Most of their governments worked with capitalists, despite however many social democracy-esque economic policies they had. Class collaborationism.

Economically fascists are like shitty syndicalists with SocDem characteristics, socially they tend to be hardcore essentialists who fetishize the nation-state. Fascist think class collaborationism is good because the naturally strong should lead; there's supposed to be some kind of state-based mechanism that ensures the upper classes does stuff to benefit the nation, although many fascists don't really think this stuff through or just hand-wave it away using social Darwinism. In practice however class collaborationism is mostly used opportunistically to benefit the upper classes and fuck the proles.

They get close to the same answers leftists come to because they're focused on similar problems that leftists are focused on. Capitalism has a profound eroding effect on culture, family, and social cohesion and fascists think a strong national identity is the solution to this. Tribalism absolutely does provide a way out of the atomization that comes with capitalism, but it comes with a long list of other negative consequences.

Some fascists may have a loose anti-capitalist sentiment, but they don't understand capital in marxist terms, is really more of an anti-establishment thing, the idea that the state has "degenerated" and must be restored to a more pure form. They don't intend to abolish it. At the end of the day actual fascism has more to do with racial "science" and the long history of colonization and slavery in the western world.

I've recently been pondering this. If you've been on the chans for a while you might remember back in like idk about 2013 the climate on the chans was slightly different. To be honest it gave me a ton of hope at the time. There were many threads/comments made by the fascists and ancaps which were wholly aimed at having a civil discussion to try to figure out commonalities and if we could somehow meet in the middle. It was a commendable effort to be honest. And shamefully I remember those threads as slowly turning into a show of the left being the ones to start flinging shit first I am not innocent in this but hindsight is 20/20

Now that Im a bit wiser than I was back then I think I have a pretty good understanding of the nature of that discourse. The amount of stuff we agree with Holla Forums on is actually pretty amazing all things considered. If you sift out their edgelords and ignore the word jew they stand on the same ground as us when it comes to corporations and corruption. The same goes for class. On the issue of class we want a society where everyone is on the same footing regardless of their previous actions or their heritage, with the caveat that equality is what drives a society and those who are wealthy are the parasites holding back society, Holla Forums on the other hand wants everyone on the same footing but they believe that previous actions and heritage should not be ignored and that success in accruing wealthy is a mark of strength and that strength is what drives a society and that the unsuccessful and jews are the parasites that hold back society.

It reminds me of an exercise that my favorite teacher Mr. Gate had us do one time. He had us take an image of something and then flip it along an axis either left or right of center and then flip it upside down while sliding it. What you wound up with was the complete opposite of the original picture, the two of which combined made it impossible to be able to tell which one was the original and which was the duplicate… Because they were both the same while being polar opposites.

That exercise was the artistic style of MC Escher.

THIS

That is definitely a topic which needs expounding. Way back during OWS there was something very interesting going on. I lived close enough to get on a bus every now and then and take part. And let me fucking tell you something….. Early on it was a fully bipartisan movement, but once the idpol took over almost everyone right of center walked away shaking their heads. I often wonder what the world would be like right now if idpol wasnt allowed to step out as the main agenda point of OWS.

Another note, I've been lurking Holla Forums a lot lately and there's been someone there posting random information about 'research that he has been doing'. It quickly veers off into some serious tinfoil about magic and such but I read a bit of what he had to say in opening.

I have no idea how the fuck he found this stuff but he managed to find well sourced information on a guy named Hermann Von Holst. And this Holla Forumstard was going on about how this guy was more influential to the spread of "an extremely vile form of communism" than any other person ever. He provided sources so I was intrigued and read them a bit. I didn't read it all because its an absolute ton of stuff. But it seems he was correct.

This guy was a huge dick. He took Marx's work and turned it into "nihilist abolitionism" which was defined as "having decided that the only way to bring about a clean slate is to destroy everything about society in such a spectacular way that anyone who survives wont remember how that society was".

I mean I understand the notion of some that 'violence may be the only way to achieve change' but a 'violent coup' and 'completely destroying society so that there remains no evidence of what defined that society' are two ENTIRELY different things.

He took the concept of abolishing nefarious aspects of society and went 5edgy9me "blow up the outside world" with it. And he was hugely successful causing multiple coups and coup attempts from 1860-1917.

To be honest I stopped reading about this guy because it was extremely depressing.. Having read it at all makes it extremely apparent that antifa is operating on the same clauses that Von Holst was. And I fail to see how completely undoing society in such a fundamental way could ever result in a decent society springing forth from the ashes.

It would result in chaos and turmoil. Its like where Holla Forums talks about their 'glorious happening' except their happening involves sticking together and removing that which is "flawed".. except without anyone getting anything and everyone getting a plate full of woe.

I mean if that's the endgame of those on the left who are occupying the largest part of everyone's mind at the moment.. WTF I don't want that… That fucking makes Not Socialism sound good by comparison.

more like missing the marx amirite

What the fuck are you on about? Your point about this guy's alleged leftist nihilism isn't relevant to the left writ large. It isn't even the endgame of the leftists as the laypublic understands it. And even if it were you'd still need to support the claim that destructive nihilism is even an actual movement on the left (which it isn't) for your larger point to have any validity.

I'm not finding anything on a communist named Hermann von Holst or "nihilist abolitionism" outside of right-wing forums. If it even exists, I'm rather doubtful it's as influential as your sources are claiming

Unfortunately there is a very destructive movement within the left. And the weight of the beliefs of laypublic only goes so far when the course of public discourse reaches the point of revolution, which it sure seems like that's coming whether anyone wants it or not, at that point it is the revolutionaries beliefs which matter then.


media.8ch.net/file_store/7ef13360d4c7faccd0a77b7d2459d439962e73b14d51fc116d3590731524a7ab.pdf
>>>/pdfs/6740

I didnt save the thread but I remembered he posted a pdf and managed to find it. Its a book Von Holst wrote. My grandmother can read Baltic German, she is too elderly to translate the whole thing but from the pages shes read to me its pretty clear the guy was exactly who that Holla Forumstard said he was.

Greetings from Holla Forums. I'm not here to fight, let's talk.

Disclaimer: I'm not a super-autist on political theory. You guys probably have me beat, and I won't try to challenge you on deep esoteric political science. I'm STEM btw.

It is also possible that I fall into your ' le epic racialist Nazis' category. If you want to throw away what I say, that's ok. I won't be mad. I'm in your house right now. I'm not here to argue. This thread is interesting to me and I'll be reading.

I will try to give my simple answer:

We care more about sharing tradition, culture, values and genes with our fellow citizens, and having a common historic connection with each other, than we care about specific political or economic theory. We think about this as 'cultural capital' - a valuable thing that cannot be measured in dollars.

In other words, we care more about having a White homeland (Europe - which is currently being destroyed by Jews) than we do about specific class theory or economic theory. To us those are just details.

Particular trade regulation, particular taxation, particular this, particular that – these things are less important than making sure we don't get flooded by people with which we have nothing in common.

To the extent that we even think about classes: We think that there would be much less class struggle if Jews were completely removed. Jews create ultra-rich classes because they are subversive and greedy. Imagine if a nation full of similar people didn't have a bunch of Jews ruining everything. There would be no super ultra-rich class and no armies of dirty peasants. Everyone would pull together and be relatively comfortable, because we would truly have a lot in common and care about each other naturally.

Oops, I just described Japan - the last place on earth that this probably exists to any extent. Maybe Iceland too. Sweden and Norway of the 1970's - 1980's comes to mind too.

Another interesting aspect of this: We look over at your commie movement, and what we think ultimately is that you are falling for Jew trickery - where they will be the ultra-rich ultra-powerful masters over you at the end of the day. They talked you into your positions, so you become their foot-soldiers. But at the end of the day you are just a pawn of the Jew. Don't get mad, I'm not slamming you directly right now. I'm saying "this is how we generally think".

We are also very anti-capitalist in the sense that we believe (actually, we know for sure) that we are living in a Jewish capitalist hell right now. We think that capitalist GOP right-wing republicans are also victims/stooges of the Jew.

Maybe this answer isn't high-brow enough to meet the requirements for your question. But this is how I would generally characterize our outlook on the fash side of things.

Maybe other fashfags would disagree with me. 10 different fashfags would probably give 5 different answers, or something.

wew, nice

Me too, not an excuse not to read. Politics is a game, if you don't play, somebody else is playing for you. That's not good

we're not reddit

We (or at least I) care about those things too. However:
You need to recognize that those things you value are being directly undermined by capital. Rampant consumerism promotes a degradation of ideals, worship of objects over the community, family and friends. Capitalism promotes division in society, it causes us to compete with one another, and we are told this is good, when in reality we are stronger when we work together on our own terms. Competition between businesses creates redundancy, competition between friends over the same job creates hatred. We worship the successful, the rich, shitheads like Paris Hilton who spread their legs on camera and do nothing to advance society. Our idea of success has been perverted, our motivation is money and the destruction of our land for ever increasing resources and the enrichment of a select few. And for what? Economic principles are more than just details, they reward the bastards of our society for their injustices.

I'm confused here. Are you saying in societies that everybody is the same that people pull together and live comfortably? And you are citing Japan as an example? I hope not. It has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, they are hopelessly classcucked. It is not a happy place to live, its is so bad their population is declining because they don't even fuck each other anymore.

In regard to this, you and the rest of Holla Forums lack a material basis for your theory. Its all reactionary bullshit. How does the "eternally evil" Jew who lives in a rat infested hell hole factor into your world view? Are they a pawn in the Jewish cabal's game, put here to trick us commies into thinking their not really the enemy?
Reality is, the rich do have a disproportionately high amount of Jews, for sure. But we don't just oppose them, we oppose the rich as an entire superstructure which rules over society. It matters not if that capitalist is black, white, Jewish, purple, whatever. Whatever the societal levers are that allow them to rise to power, we oppose them. As an anarchist, I take this a step further and oppose a state which allows ANYBODY to get such power over another, it removes the problem you have entirely, whereas your solutions are mere half-measures that allow other groups to oppress ones they don't like. BTW if youre anglo you better watch out for those pesky Celts, they look like you but they aren't your friend. Wouldn't want them slipping into your White European Utopia

We know. ""The basic feature of our economic theory is that we have no theory at all." - Hitler.

We know, however, your disregard for economics is just silly, even before the rise of blatant ethno-nationalist sentiments you (white Europeans) were always engaged in this shit, especially with the jews you hate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Jew

Prove it. Also pic related

More homogeneous and yet still miserable.
njfac.org/index.php/suicide-and-unemployment-in-japan/

That depends, are you only in favor of removing only jewish capitalists or are you in favor of removing capitalism wholesale.

Ok, people like their culture and tradition, fair enough.
But really. Jews = class?
U do people have to be so fucking spooked?

You do seem more polite than most of Holla Forums tho. Kudos for that.

I decent amount of them could've made pretty good socialists (Il Duce) but got a but spooked out and and/or got corrupted by nietzschian thought

most fascists didn't have a problem with jews before hitler. In fact many jews were involved in fascist parties (Italy for example)

Nah, political theory is a waste of time in my opinion. I don't need to learn 37 different esoteric flavors of communism or libertarianism. In fact I'm pretty sure that this is exactly what Jews want us to do - spend our time arguing over specific autistic political horseshit instead of noticing that they have subverted the entire West.

I agree with this. Maybe we have some common ground.

Interesting, I'll think about this a bit more.

What are you talking about? Jews are the most powerful people on the planet (and somehow the most persecuted at the same time ???).

Understatement of the century.
One single Jewish family controls ALL international central banking, and has for centuries.

"If we just killed niggers there would be no poor people" (your logic)

Yes, we are well aware of the Court Jew. But I think you have it backwards.

The Court Jew were Jews doing Jewy things – running money in the background between nobility, etc. Literally just early versions of the modern globalist jew.

Nothing has changed in 2,000 years.

Btw, it's not just Holla Forums. NOBODY has liked Jews for 2 millenia (pic related).

I guess Jews are awesome and EVERYONE ELSE is wrong for 2,000 years … ? Is this your position?

Pollack here again, one more thing.

You guys at least know the holocaust was fake, right?

I was just saying that not every Jewish person is an evil banker. I know a Jewish chick who smokes crack and is a prostitute. I know others who are typical working class. How are these people factored into your world view?

Where did I say that?

Are you talking about jews?

Oh, you mean the most powerful people on the planet … and you're not allowed to notice?

It really doesn't matter to me personally, and too difficult to discern truth from conspiracy. I am radically opposed to Israel and that is about the extent of it for me

Oh oh, okay, fair enough, sorry.

Yes, I also believe that not every Jew is wise to the conspiracy and/or participating in it.

I'm not sure what to do about that exactly, except I do know that jews are the worst liars and subverters on earth, and it is very hard for me to trust them.

Probably best to just remove them and send them somewhere.

I do know this much for sure: If you're going to have anyway Jews around, you cannot give them any power or influence inside your critical institutions. This ends in fun and eventually communist mass murders every time.

Pic unrelated, but just look at those jewish cunts.

wow ok, so I do have a handful of things in common with some of you guys.

that's kinda cool

I'm not sure where you're trying to get at. Every single supposed crime of jewish bankers involves as many or more gentiles. A british man invented central banking, an italian family invented banking cartels, anglos pioneered mercantilism and industrial capitalism. The Netherlands, Germany and the UK are the source of investment banking. Bretton-Woods was an anglo-american idea, the Fed was an anglo american idea. The largest banks on earth: Barclays, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of New York Mellon aren't owned by jews.

My point in bringing up jews servicing old European nobility was to demonstrate how you (white Europeans) are essentially just as culpable for participating in this practice and yet you only see jews at fault here.

There is common ground but keep in mind I oppose Israel because it is reactionary as fuck, an apartheid and their fucking aipac lobby owns our government. It's really not because I hate Jews per say, I would hate any country that did these things

Yes, many goyim do the bidding of the Jew.

Banking is completely controlled by Jews. If you don't know this then you are totally naive.

Sorry bud. JP Morgan Chase is very very very very very Jewish.

Fair enough.

You'll come around.

;-)

Surely if you are bothered by the fact that a group of people lords over you, you should look at the entire group, not a select few based on such an arbitrary measure as ethnicity.

I mean, those Jewish billionaires you keep rambling on about are bourgeois. The question is will you come around to getting rid of the other billionaires that aren't Jewish?

Fascists are the beasts to be released in times when there is a serious threat to capitalism. Both Hitler and Mussolini emerged as a result of the deep class struggle in both of those countries, killing workers with paramilitaries. They may have formulated some theory previous to obtaining power, but they were in the end no more than the precursors for the most disgusting form of capitalism.

Read Parenti's Blackshirts and Reds. The conditions in these countries were atrocious if you were from the lower strata, and the 'benefits' people got were barely anything more than nominal.

Actually, I'd say the oppose is true. YOU'LL come around.
Because let me put it to you this way, IF what you say is true, the Jews own the media (which I am well aware they are well represented in) how exactly do you plan on taking them down? Your ideology is taboo, it's never going to reach mass appeal. Israel and Jews are untouchable, look at what haim Saban did to Keith Ellison during the democrat chair race, turned the media against him, painted him as an amtismite over nothing, he lost the race despite massive backing
You're best bet at this point is to remove the power structures that exist that give them this power in the first place. You will find the libertarian socialist theory and praxis are capable of this. Another hitler will not come to save your ass.

In the last century or so, fascists were almost never in charge. Think about it. A handful of times inside a handful of significant nations. The current shitty world we live in is definitely not the creation of fascists.

Communist thugs are clearly the beasts to be released in times when there is a serious threat to capitalism.

Hitler shut down the Jewish capitalism of the Weimar Republic. But then Jewish global capitalism shut down Hitler, and now Jewish capitalists rule the world.

Communists have, bar far, the largest kill count of the last century. It's not even a competition. It's not even close.

Nice try though.


No idea. They completely run everything. All I can do is tell the truth until they kill me, I guess. Which, they probably will.


You are correct, and I wonder 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧why🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 that is? There is a complete monopoly on the interpretation of the 20th century.


Yep. Why aren't you mad about that?


Yep.


Nah, fapping in circles about esoteric political theory will do exactly nothing.


I know. It does seem pretty hopeless, doesn't it?

I guess we have arrived at the crux of the matter.

You want to remove rich people. I want to remove Jews.

They are mostly the same thing, so we mostly agree. But you're right, some are not.

For me the tie-breaker is that Jews control all information. Every TV network. Every printing press. They have subverted every single Western government and propagandized us all into oblivion. They literally control the money supply. Not just the markets, but literally the supply (FED).

How about we just agree to remove Jews first and see what is next?

Btw, Jews are happy for you to be you, and oppose us. You help them continue to be in charge of literally everything.

Meanwhile, the elite establishment is seriously unhappy about the alt-right. The most elite people in the world are out there hyper-signalling against us right now.

You literally have John McCain, Mitt Romney, Marco Rubio, and every single other shitty republican on your side. Think about that.

Just because nazis look worse than socialists doesn't mean that the politicians are "on our side". Anyone with a semi functioning brain would side against the people that drive cars into women jihadi style.

Hello redditor. How about reading the book instead of throwing wild, unsubstantiated claims?

The entire population of Russia then? Seems legit.

So because they agree with us on a single widely accepted consensus that Nazism is bad they are on our side now? Okay buddy. Come back to me later when all of them denounce capitalism and say that socialism is the only way forward.


I think that picture is supposed to be ironic. Not only is the text flat out false but the picture of the dead bodies was from some camp in Nazi Germany.

Me again (polfag).

Sorry to shit up your thread with pol stuff. I'll stop.

Let me say this -

I have never spent time here before so I didn't know what to expect. You guys definitely aren't stupid. Even though we only agree on a few things, I appreciate your posts. You have definitely given me some things to think about.

Why wouldn't we want to talk about the scum of the earth that are the Rotchschilds?

Fucking burn them at stake.

Bit too nazi unless you do it with some alpha whites too.

I hate how Holla Forums only says "fucking niggers ruined Detroit" without ever mentioning how capitalism played a role. Related article:
nakedcapitalism.com/2013/07/the-decline-and-fall-of-detroit.html

...

I can only say that If you don't change the economic system but only remove the people you don't like (ie. jews) others will simply take their place. The very nature of capital and the commodity fetishism it brings will always create exploitation and alienation.

porky doesnt care what race you are unless its for the sake of exploiting you through idpol.

How do people believe this?

primitive people hate(d) them because 1. they're a minority 2. they think their people killed jesus christ

Fascists go much further than this tho. They tie race and culture together and push for making those a central part of their national identity.

do you not understand that killing/removing/whateveryouwannacallit people according to their genetic heritage is anathema to not just the left but most people
and yes, even the hardcorest of the republicans don't like nazis, because you're the pedophiles of politics

Instead of being a deliberate extermination, they were used as slave labor and then got ditched as the war turned sour, causing starvation and typhoid to spread. Whoop-dee-shit, that makes it so much better.

There were actual death camps, but the overwhelming majority of Jews died in the way you said they did. Eugenic extermination was absolutely a priority for the Nazis, even if it wasn't the main one.