Is it possible to have another civil war?

The south wanted a slave economy based on exporting shit. The north didn't. That was the primary contradiction. It was a war between the plantation owners and the factory owners. The abolition of slavery was part of a wider campaign to destroy the old order.

This is an example of people shilling a second civil war.
inb4 liberal media
I know, but this is a instance where people of both sides are talking about another civil war because of idpol bullshit.

Absolutely not.
Porkies may have disagreements, but they are not so large that it would cause a civil war of some sort. A civil war would mean, America gives up their dominant position. Porkies profit from it and they aren't that stupid.

Civil War my ass. It's probably Milhouse.

It's like y'all nibbas don't even remember Greensboro. Things were much heated before.

If America is plunged into a civil war, then Putin is the greatest politician who ever existed.
His dream of being a playable leader in Civilisation may come true, if said game studio doesn't get destroyed half-way through.

And now we have a tension between factory owners and IP owners. The former want a return to industrial economy, the latter want to outsource production to sweatshops in the developing world and direct the US economy towards service jobs for the wealthy elite.

I don't think there will be a civil war. People misunderstand why the first one happened. Southern slave owners were training their slaves to do skilled labor like carpentry and stone mansonry. It was only a matter of time before they started opening up slave built and operated factories. This would have rekted the norths wage labor factory system. Southern slavery pissed off both the norths porkys and proles, since northern workers weren't cucks to slave owners like southern proles were and never believed or wanted to own slaves one day. I don't see any fundamental split in the bourgeois of the US. Both Dems and Repubs were using white supremacy to trick their base into voting for neoliberalism, the Dems used the specter of its return, and the GOP promised to bring it back.

Well, nowadays the wrecking of the north's economy is already happening, and again pisses off both porkies and proles as the coastal liberals transfer industrial production overseas and leave only low-paid service and domestic work that only blacks and immigrants want to take.

Not a burger here

Are things really so tense?
This feels unreal, but internet didn't use to have this impact on real life. Even the Occupy Movement was dull.

Im a burger and also genuinely worried. I know it's not going to be some kind of mass mobilization of militaries or anything but different insurgent factions pulling off attacks and de facto controlling different parts of cities and states while the national guard tries to get rid of them seems very possible.

Some americans on this board are so dismissive of the idea that I think they've internalized some American exceptionalism and it's leading to some it can't happen here bullshit.

Read Peter Turchin my friends

Antifa and the more violent right wing will probably end up getting fed up and just start attacking each other constantly. antifa has the head start though

(Cont)
Peter Turchin tweeted this, might be interesting:
newyorker.com/news/news-desk/is-america-headed-for-a-new-kind-of-civil-war

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As long as it doesn't happen before 2019 I couldn't care. God I can't wait to leave this shithole

America probably won't be having a civil war anytime soon, people are far too comfortable with the status quo to take up arms. You'll need to wait for the economy to crash to see things get really bad.

where do you plan on going?

yes, it was started about not having slaves, which was the economic factor

Silicon valley are all Lolberts
they'll talk loudly about republican tyranny but in the end will be subservient

The Irish Civil War was mostly based on Idpol, that being said theres not nearly as much of a disconnect between the government and the people in america

I think most civil wars start when things go to shit economically - slightly left wing people will want to redistribute to alleviate the issues and the damaged beurgoisie will be much more protective then usual

Worst comes to worse you might get some sort of low intensity """warfare""" between socialists, right wing nutters like the 3%ers and the state security, somewhat like the troubles

On the off chance their is a civil war how likely is it for a left wing side to emerge that isn't fueled by idpol ?

I believe that there will be a civil war in the United States in the near future for one reason: the mode of production in different regions is becoming increasingly different in structure. Much of the country is built upon a laissez faire system that is rapidly degenerating, while capital is increasingly funneling towards the more government-guided regions like the Northeast and the West Coast. On top of that, the titanic megacorporations headquartered in the latter regions have been becoming increasingly similar to the factory villiage system that was common in the Northern states during the antebellum period.

If those states in the Northeast and on the West Coast do enact something like Universal Basic Income in an attempt to produce a stable consumer base it will accellerate and, more importantly, localize income disparity to a shocking degree. It will be absolutely impossible for the laissez fare states not to notice that they have just become in essense provinces of the more planned states. At that point, the porkies in the provinces will violently rebel while the porkies in the planned states try to close their borders. The United States will splinter, but not before the Northeast and the West Coast try to claim as much of the poor former states as they can.

Take your meds

Likely Britain or Canada, whichever accepts me for grad school

The only way that the left wins is if it manages to sieze production in places like California and Texas, and it can only feasibly do that if the war goes completely off the rails.

Oh please. That is just about exactly what happened the last time there was a civil war. These things follow a pattern.

Do you people actually think socialism exists in America on a significant level? Any kind of american civil war would be 99% right wingers vs far right wingers

There will not be a civil war anytime soon, nothing akin to what happened in the original. There are similarities happening in the USA that replicate the problems that helped the country plunge into war though like the 3/5th was then and gerrymandering is today.

Southern/conservative leaning states gaming the electoral system and over representing themselves compared to northern states is was the norm before the civil war. The population of slaves at the time was to be counted as three-fifths in total when apportioning Representatives, as well as Presidential electors and taxes which created a p lopsided affect wherein the elite planter class controlled so much of the country that it was impossible to make workable legislation that affected them. Similarly a hilarious thing is happening in the modern USA where states with lots of rural areas are depopulating but keeping their representative numbers the same and also gerrymandering allotments for reps and positions in gov to the point where a state with a majority left leaning population will be p much held hostage by a minority conservative electorate. Whoever was in charge of the state last before redistricting p much controls its future for now.

No, but the south did, and so the war began.

This is p much correct. The south became intractable concerning allowing more non slave states into the union to the point that they tried to force the issue. If the South had managed to get me slave states into the union it would have solidified its grasp over the federal government making it completely beholden to the planter class interests for the next hundred or so years- until the 3/5ths compromise could somehow be undone or made to go away. It was either civil war or the south ruling America with an iron fist eventually.

This. Anyone who actually thinks there will be Syria or Spain 2.0 in America when things go to shit is letting their imagination get ahead of them.

With that in mind the question becomes why did the south leave the union first? Simple- they were inbred morons who thought they could force the north to capitulate by force and save some time. Had the 3/5ths compromise remained in affect and the south managed to get more slave states into the union it was goodnight northern control of the fed. The other argument was true too- with the constant gridlock the south feared that the north would eventually just make more and more free states to the point that they could defeat the 3/5ths compromise naturally via outnumbering them in votes. Time was of the essence in their eyes and it appeared the north could wait them out.

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why live

That's why I said that the war would have to be completely off the rails. There would have to be systemic collapses and fragmentation of the opposed capitalist forces. The only way for the left to gain anything is if the war is a total shitshow.

Because California broke the Missouri Compromise by entering the Union as a free state, thus ensuring that slavery could never grow in the West which meant that the master class would forever be the bitches of the industrialists.

A civil war won't happen.

Indeed things were more "violent' and "worse" when both the Aryan Nation and Hell's Angels were in prominence in the past.

What the right has currently mobilized holds no water to these prior organizations who's prominence has fallen. For one, they had drug money, and for two, they were willing to do whatever it took and acted as a gang.

Holla Forums is full of suburban kids and the most they can do is act like terrorists.

Let’s hope an independint Socialist New Englnad comes out of a Second American Civil War if there ever is one.

America is a major player in the world economy. If America has a second civil war a worldwide recision will likely happen. As well as a MUCH larger version of the refuge crisis. If there is a second civil war here I fell bad for Eurofags for having to deal with America refuges.

Same I would love a Socialist New England

It doesn’t matter what the elites want. The proletariat can destroy the elites.

Not if they use them to protect the elites.

I don't think a civil wars is in the cards until there's fairly discrete political blocs and other institutional features of the government become totally ineffective. There is still too much consensus in government, also.

However, the issue is that the institutions that are still trusted are military. I suspect a military coup would be more likely in the event of a prolonged actual crisis.

And I mean actual crisis. This situation is not an actual crisis.

If America had a second civil war, it’d likely spill over into Canada.

What about the role of foreign elites though?

The Western elite might be united right now while they have their noses so deep in the trough but it can't be far from the minds of the rising non-Western elite that any civil war they can blow up in the US would be the end of their position on top and the catalyst for a massive fire sale on America's corporations. Sure it'd badly harm the entire global economy and the paper value of foreign corporations, but it's unlikely to destroy their infrastructure or assets. Russia will inevitably fan the flames for it's own ends and to settle old grudges but the pigs in China and rising might of their corporations would surely love the opportunity to destabilise the US and loot it's corporate wealth for a bargain price.

Pigs are still pigs at the end of the day and it's their instinct to wipe the competition out, surely they'd go as far as ensuring a civil war destroys the US so they can loot its wealth? That's why suspect a civil could and likely will happen, the state of the country is a gift for the rising powers in the world, especially given the Chinese corporate elite is essentially no different from the US corporate elite, only they have a better hand right now.

Just going to repost a post I made in another thread because I'm lazy again

Interesting link regarding the statements of the seceeding states, pretty reactionary but interesting non the least civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states#slavery_expansion

Russian and to a lesser extent the Chinese elites are using the west to destroy itself right now. Should be interesting to see how they relate towards one another once America is no longer the global hegemonic power.

A civil war would increase the profit rate by reducing the value of capital. Just saying.

God I hope so. Anti-racist clearly didn't finish the job last time. The Union might not have been our guys pound for pound. But, I feel like we got a pretty good chance of coming out on top this time around.

Yeah, the only thing that seperates the U.S. and Canada is an imaginary line and the fact that one side has a teenager's irrational sense of invulnerability and the other has Short Man's Disease.

holy shit

Only in war industries. An American civil war would destroy the American economy and harm countries which do lot’s of trading with America.

112 guns per 100 residents.

The only thing a civil war would do is help the rich and powerful have more control over those who aren't.

And that's just the ones we know about.

Unless we were to win it.

"We" implies a group close-knit and intelligent enough to successfully lead the country to better pastures. We all know this isn't the case with any of Holla Forums's boards.

I should hope that "we" does not just mean this board.

I don't expect a literal civil war, I can't even imagine how that would go.
It's not about how 'violent' things get, but this will restructure the social landscape.

It's to note that those groups you mentioned were ideologically marginal. Like you said, even their power was backed by illegal activities.
This thing is happening at an official level now, developing live in mainstream media and engulfing a lot of people.
On the government, on universities, business… th is on the white market.

The future of nations aren't just determined by violence or revolutions, but by every day practices.
This new zeitgeist seems to be firmly taking root, and this will affect how society is run in general one way or the other, even without violence.

Is the mainstream use of the term snowflake something new?
Because I only used to see it on chans before, since around 2010 applied to the emergin tumblr triggered demographic.
And now I've seen articles about it, or people complaining about some use irl, etc, like it now has irl presene and not just an internet insult
it's from le edgy quarrel club, btw, so I'm sure it got popular on chans before anywhere else

It won't get to that point since Racist Nazis are so few and a vocal minority. They just showed up.
They're being killed, beat down, robbed as we speak. It won't escalate, it will be a small war of protests.

The dipshit nazis are not going to be one of the factions apart from their utility to the capitalist ruling class.

am hoping the amprims win the forthcoming war and launch a thousand nukes to destroy america and save the world

But at the same time it destroys the value of America's corporations. If a civil war destroys the economy it lowers their value to a point where Chinese corporations although weakened could still find enough wealth and power to gut out all their hamstrung US rivals. Especially in Silicon Valley and other technology/pharma/research industries they'd gorge themselves on patents and research to an extent even greater than the US looting of German industrial knowledge and patents after WWII.

What should cause the most concern is that it's forming a perfect storm. The most potent geopolitical rivals in Russia and most potent economic rivals in China now want the same thing and I wouldn't be surprised if they worked together to get it. They want to see America fall so they can feast on the long-term gains of looting its corpse and plundering everything they can.

Things aren't getting better, that's for sure. the spectacle of 'progress' and symbolic civil rights victories hasn't translated to material improvements for most blacks. In fact, black proles haven't recovered from the crisis of 08. Black lives matter has a lot to do with the crisis of surplus population management under late capitalism. There is a huge chasm between the people who live in ghetto areas and middle class 'activists' and the media/managerial sector. Cops are often brutal but also provide a semblance of safety in increasingly unsafe and impoverished areas.

White America isn't faring much better. towns with boarded up main streets decimated by big box stores, heroin. The middle class has historically been the backbone of fascist movements. the downwardly mobile petit bourgeois, specially the white ones, are resentful and becoming more so amidst this endless procession of symbolic empty victories. Silicon Valley's vision of the future is relentlessly bleak, regardless of all the diversity commitments and pseudo humanitarian teach kids to kode initiatives. our panopticon hypermedia landscape feels increasingly claustrophobic. people love to fantasise about apocalyptic violence because it seems like such a release.

China can't do shit. Posession is 9/10ths of the law, unless they invade and conquer like the Americans did to the Nazis then your scenario won't happen.
The US is well aware of China's power and bans them from buying US businesses as a part of their strategy to stop the expatriation of strategic capital.

Let's look at it this way. Let's say you drop a $1000 lamp. It shatters beyond reasonable repair and is now essentially worthless. A Chinese man offers you $200 for the shards.
Most people would cut their loss and sell.
The Chinese wouldn't have to steal anything; they'd just buy for a drastically cheaper price.

Not in the aftermath of a civil war though, that's essentially my point. They're strong now but put them through that, destroy the economy and break the back of it's military power and the Chinese will be the stronger side in a better position to offer whatever terms they like without having suffered any destruction or infrastructure damage. They'll be severe economic damage, but the state has enough control over the population and the ability to resist it getting out of hand. Russia is arguably the same after over a decade of rule intent on preventing any uprising or civil unrest. They can both just about weather the economic storm. The US on the other hand won't have that luxury and its laws and business regulations will count for nothing after suffering a civil war.

It's a supreme irony but it's China having the excuse to offer a Marshall Plan of it's own to gut a devastated post-civil war US of enough of it's wealth and resume trade would do it.

The state will never ever allow it. They'll squash any major insurrection to sustain governance and the economy. Expect the 70s.

I hope you're right.

Media and corporations present themselves as the last bulwark against fascism (vox.com/identities/2017/8/17/16162226/corporations-replacing-churches-americas-conscience). Which is worrying, considering the changes in the material base that lie ahead. Media companies are laying off even more journalists in an effort to 'pivot to video' in a last shot attempt to keep the ad revenue flowing. (money.cnn.com/2017/08/17/media/mic-layoffs/index.html).

Fight Club and the Matrix are pure kino and extremely relevant to current social conditions. the fact they are associated with cringe redditors and pleb fedora tippers is only testament to their momentous influence. They capture a sense of late capitalist alienation that's been oddly missing from recent cinema (with some exceptions such as the lego movie). 60s cinema reflected the confusion and violence of its time, while present day pop culture is mostly escapist dragon porn or feel good/bad oscar bait movies about racism .

Kino?

Read a book.

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An interesting subtext embedded into The Matrix is that every time Neo moves to the left he gets closer to freedom while every time he turns to the right he gets in trouble.

Listen here, retard.

I never thought that I would agree with a nazi.
Seems like that even the nazis on Holla Forums are more "civilized"

Cinema

To be fair, I generally want the same things as the from my point of view more reasonable posters here; only with the addition that I think it'd all work better in a tribal setting.

first time I've opened knowyourmeme in years

Disregarding a viewpoint because it is based on silly analogies is a rational act.

Of course you do. Everyone in a given class wants basically the same things. Only those who have done actual analysis know how to get them.

I was trying to explain what the guy was saying to you. Quit getting so daft over my flag and read my fucking words. Damn son.

mildly interesting. I'm never going to watch it again to find out if thats true though so I'll take your word for it

I love that coat of arms, but I like this flag better.

tribalism's pretty dumb though, unless you actually live in a tribe.
people living in small communities of ~150 people is fine, as an official national ideology it's fucking retarded.

Why?
Many different cultures have proven to be incapable of co-existence. Additionally, people tend to feel more comfortable around the people most similar to themselves. If for any reason, tribalism should be accepted in order to preserve the thousands of years of culture built up across the various civilizations.

I fucking salviating at the thought of a socialist new england
Any of you guys try something with an anchor too? That's be cool to tap into the fishing and coastal aspect of our history

Peak oil is about to cause energy, medicine, and food shortages. Looks like porky wants to liquefy the proletariat before they can use their arms to obtain any resources.

Total bullshit. The South's actual ownership of slaves was about 1%; the South was fighting against Top-down government control of their lives. It had literally nothing to do with slavery & was a conquest by the North for new cheap labor & land.

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God GitS is so fucking good. As for the Matrix I think the AniMatrix was better.

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You forgot traps. The South loved traps apparently. That makes them official Holla Forums tier.

Seriously though you are being stupid.

Nah, traps are general imageboard-tier. Never been on a board that didn't like traps.

They can dump all their treasury bonds turning the dollar into a cent, effectively making things we import impossible to buy. They can do that any time they want.

Jefferson Davis literally was a sissy CD

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read

maybe for the naval ensign?

could be that. Or could use it for a regional flag within the territory, perhaps the Municipality of Portland or something?

well, something like that is up to the locals, and I'm pretty sure you'd find lots of anchors in coastal new england municipalities already.

Sure, was just throwing it out there. I have a thing for nautical themed shit

What was the Russian Civil War then?

back to sucking putin's cock

Western European Porky throwing everything they had at the greatest threat to their wealth that ever existed.