Can we at least agree that both Antifa and Nazis are faggots?

When push comes to shove you'd rather fuck a trap butt than an actual woman. Because women are mean to you.

Nazis don't love nations in America though. They love their race (or rather they hate every other race typically).

You sure you aren't thinking of Civic Nationalists? I mean I call them all NEETSocs but they are different groups.

I've never read a lick of Rothbard in my life.

What did he mean by this

Do you even know what Nazi means?

Well we both know you don't read.

I critically support antifa, because I'm antifascist. Nazis are just faggots.

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei

Yes, but you fucks are even worse.

I hate that shit, that shit smells like crap

I read plenty. I've got a copy of the New Testament (NKJV), a copy of the Bluejacket's Manual, Dante's The Inferno, Mary Beard's SPQR, Don Quixote, the Bhagavad Gita literal translation…

But how do you define a fascist?

Nazis will spit on Native American nations without question, which is absolutely true since they believe in the right of conquest.

...

A whole bunch of nothing

You guys are gayer than trans people, it's true.

You seem buttflustered, friendo. Are you Polish by chance?

nah, but i can agree that 90% of you snakes are closet fash

Sounds like you just have shit taste in reading and can't enjoy the classics. I've got the perfect suggestion for you.

That's fine by me.

Libertarians become Fascists/Nazis, at the moment they realize that maintaining present property relations in the future will require genocide or mass separation of family and friend.

That implies libertarians are stupid enough to believe any claims the government has made over property to be legitimate.

Anyways, for a tripfag, you seem pretty openly hostile to anyone and everyone. They make meds for that.

Stefan Molyneux and Christopher Cantwell seem to have reconciled these beliefs.

That's actually legitimately, what I'm saying. Your ideology is that basic that you would end up supporting the government if it ended up protecting your property rights more.

Jackass and Cuckwell? They're on par with Alex Jones. Great to laugh at, honestly.

Miia is leftist

Isn't that basically NRx?

That'd be hard to do when my raifu and some goat piss bombs can do a fine job of that. Not that I own goat piss bombs, Mr. ATF.

Why do you insist on derailing the thread like this? Why is there always the assumption of some underlying argument? I'm just pointing out that NEETSocs and Antifa a shit.

We're on Holla Forums. Everybody is more rude than an average person a New York subway, it's just what to expect.

Nationalist authoritarianism coupled with a corporatist economic system, privatization, and organized paramilitary violence.

Didn't say gay, I said faggots, faggot.

Maybe it's worth derailing the thread if that's all you got tbh

democracynow.org/2017/8/14/cornel_west_rev_toni_blackmon_clergy

Antifa was saving people's lives. All you nazis had was some faggot in a car with a virgin stare

American antifa is a mixed bag, its largely comprised of larping liberals and false-flaggers, and I personally find "black bloc" tactics questionable at best. In other places they're pretty cool, over in Greece there are straight up fascist gangs like Golden Dawn that act as thugs for big business to intimidate their workers similar to the old Pinkerton Gang, while Greek Antifa actively opposes them and sets up free services for impoverished communities. There's also some Antifa guys over in Syria actively fighting against ISIS

How is tyranny of the state any different from tyranny of corporations?

Doesn't that mean the Nazis weren't even fascists? Or is this another one of those Venezuelan "State Capitalist" bullshit scenarios?

this

It might if fascists ever gave a clear exposition of their theoretical underpinnings. The Doctrine of Fascism is very abstract, and Mein Kampf just rambles on and on and never provides much of a case for Not Socialism. Mussolini and Hitler both displayed an immense flexibility when it came to political programs.

There isn't even an actual coherent definition of what fascism is, it's so god damn wishy washy and idiotic.

But Antifa started the fighting.

social democracy is a form of privatization

I'm not too familiar with the details of stuff like the clusterfuck in Berkely, but over in Charlottesville the white supremacists showed up a day early and started violently assaulting the locals, there weren't any counter-protesters until the next day

My first pic should have honestly been enough to prove the white supremacists started it, but I know you ancaps are degenerate subhumans tat can't read.

lol

When your protest ends with injuring 18 people and killing one person and your only argument is: WELL YOU STARTED IT

Antifa>Nazis>Ancap

This is true. Even without my pics it's such a lame excuse. Like something a kinder gardener would say.
or someone who wants to fuck them like ancaps

I heard the night before was mostly just vocal harassment.

Someone died, 18 people were injured, you can't use "You guys were goofing around and scaring me!" as a defense for the protest.

For all you shit on antifa they haven't yet fucking killed someone and injured 18, where am I supposed to sympathize with a bunch of degenerative Holla Forums posters

I have three pics up there that give accounts of what happened Saturday. I know why you responded to that post and not mine. What a fucking coward. Unite the Right would be glad to have you.

They're both faggots but Antifa are our faggots

Gotta love how ancaps bust their nut over fantasising about throwing commies out of helicopters, but the moment a left winger gets violent they curl up and become the biggest pacifists. Violently suppressing Nazis is the morally right thing to do.

yeah

if production is private, it is in your interest to be as productive as possible because your wealth is directly proportional to your productivity
if production is collective, your main interest is to get paid by the collective, you dont care about your personal productivity, you dont care about the quality of your labor, you dont care about working, you just want to receive from the collective and you want to avoid as much work as you can avoid, the whole thing becomes a race to the bottom

LOL

...

No, the owner's profits are what increases with your productivity, you get stuck with a shitty wage regardless, and if you increase your productivity that means the owner needs less workers which means more competition for your job and drives down wages.

holy shit

lol

slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

Here is another article for you not to address, cowardly ancap faggot.

all collectivization/'socialization' is just avoidance of personal responsibility
ancap ideology is far superior because its main message was self improvement, its all about expanding your individual capacities, capacities for production, technology, competitiveness, efficiency, etc etc
main message of all collectivist bullshit (racism, leftism, whateverism) is that there something else out there, jews, capitalists, whatever, and that they are exploiting you, so you have permanent and infinite excuse for being shitty and unproductive, so you remain shitty and unproductive, poor and miserable your entire life

as far as how true an ideology is, it really doesnt matter
its not like there is a communism anywhere on the map, its not like you will ever build one, and its also not like there is a 100% free market anywhere, but at least if you believe in self improvement you end up becoming a doctor/engineer, you end up with some marketable skill at least, you end up with a solid job
meanwhile if your ideology is just being resentful and hating a strawman which justifies you remaining shitty, you remain shitty and miserable your whole life

This is wildly off-topic and has no place here. Also:
This describes most of my jobs, user. The fuck kind of job do you have where people try to do the most in the capitalist mode of production?

That's great from a board that refuses to apologize for killing someone.

Most antifa are faggots. All nazis are faggots.

The point is the goal, capitalism doesn't have a goal. It has a means of getting to "wealth for everybody! If you don't like it, you're a loser!", but that's just going on a fucking search for nowhere. And on top of that it's unrealistic, on top of that it's currently committing self harm and great environmental destruction.

It's sewing its own destruction and all you can do is shrug and say, hey if you don't like it you're just too lazy.

Nobody under the age of 30 is ever going to retire but your message is hey if you don't like it you're lazy.

That's stupid as fuck and you need to actually be robbed at gun point.

The juggalos are going to march against fascism this September, and I refuse to classify them as faggots.

liberty =/= pol

pol wants to claim achievements of every white person, and give itself a status of a pretty princess that deserves infinite welfare just because
leftypol wants to claim achievements of every working person, and give itself a status of a pretty princes that deserves infinite welfare just because

liberty tells you to fuck off, find a way instead of finding an excuse, work hard instead of complain, build instead of endless criticizing, take control of yourself and live your own life

being a farmer that owns his own farm
being a anything, that works independently
there is nothing stopping you from providing your skills and services directly to the consumers
start your own farm, have no one to bitch about, start your own software company, start your own something, anything, there are reasonable, competitive "start your own shit" loans out there if you think you are so productive

Marxists become Fascists/Nazis at the moment they realize that eating food requires earning and then spending money.

Nobody on Holla Forums is doing their best, let's be real with ourselves here.

That's really good from an entire political ideology of people who live with their parents.

haha I highly doubt this.

what a surprise.

haha you have to be trolling. Surprise you didn't link Ayn Rand.

What a fucking thing to say when no one on your side can even accept that one of your own murdered someone in cold blood.
None of this is even provable and sounds like new-age self-improvement crap.
The right routinely blames blacks, Jews, Muslims, etc. for everything wrong in the capitalist mode of production. I agree with this sentiment but you have applied that sentiment to people that do not have it.
Cuba, China, and North Korea identify to some degree as socialist. Many people on this board may disagree with me, but I don't think they are strictly capitalist.

Nah.

But you're a faggot.

diplomacy with these people is fundamentally unproductive
they always want to redistribute the wealth, never to make it
E V E R Y O N E who is rich became rich because he is evil instead of productive, to even attempt to think outside of ideology is heresy
if someone was honestly successful, it would ruin them so they can not accept that
you M U S T be evil exploiter even if you work completely alone
they are just jealous of the rich and that's it, they do mental gymnastics to justify their failures and they will never improve

the upside is that people who cant compete with you in the market, cant really compete with you 'in the streets'
believing hard work is a virtue, you will work hard to hide/escape/build artillery if needed be to defend your hard earned private property

leftist looters believing hard work is a sin, they wont put enough effort into their retarded lazy coups and will just end up dead

im almost done with my basic academic studies with top grades in chemistry and i am already receiving job offers together with a car, healthcare, housing, benefits and all that
because i believe in myself, in hard work, in common sense, in people being people instead of them waking up every morning to exploit me or whatever

you are a toilet cleaner not because someone exploited you (what the fuck is there to exploit?), but because you never worked hard
you gotta sow B E F O R E you reap, and none of you leftist sow anything, ever, all you ever want to do is take other people's shit, never build your own, you must always have something to parasite, never build your own

Because doing something for the sake of doing something doesn't exist. And crops grow on money.

They are both Big "R" Republicans who do not realize it.

Nobody ever got rich by working hard. They got rich by making some other dumb bastards work hard for them.

Working people build everything.

That is what revolutions do.

The peasantry in the First World is dead.

HURR just have all the means of production and capital that you need!

Hey that's great for you dude, but I fucking doubt it.

read
ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf

i know you do
you are a fucking commie
you dont have to work hard
because there's someone out there under your bed, holding you down, so all attempts are futile before they are even attempted
nothing will ever be real communism, and everything is fundamentally defeatist pointless garbage because the boogeyman will always win no matter what

i simply sat my ass down, picked a marketable skill, and now i am about to enjoy everything that life has to offer
if i was a commie, i'd probably be too busy being angry at everything, and think that knowing some useless dialectics no one wants to pay me to know entitles me to a yacht or whatever

this is why communism failed in the west, working class doesnt feel exploited
it worked in feudal russia because peasants there were actually exploited

Morality gives you superpowers!

Hoochie and other members of Holla Forums are being logical when they see rightists like you and assume you're Holla Forums. Holla Forums often tries to raid this board, and threads about raiding Holla Forums from there have been screencapped.
How do you know this? Do you know every person on this board?
Criticism is a useful tool no matter what you are doing. Also, if everyone who worked hard was properly rewarded under capitalism, then the third world should be swimming with riches. The capitalists on the other hand, comparatively, do nothing and are rewarded for doing so.
This would require me to own the land, and to own several machines. The only class that has the means to buy all this are members of the bourgeoisie.
Independents and co-ops have far more difficulties than any business owned by the bourgeoisie. If capitalism, again, rewarded hard work there would be more incentive for these start-ups.
All of the points made above seem to suggest otherwise
Literally any capitalist would say this is pie in the sky reasoning. You can't just do anything you want under capitalism or you and your family starves.

I'm in university and I whore it out but you're shameless because you always lie it's a STEM degree. If you really had a STEM degree you wouldn't be this fucking basic about your job opportunities because the fields you always pick are becoming over saturated.

I work pretty hard and your stereotype that people here just don't work isn't fucking true. Most of us work harder than Holla Forums or /liberty/.

No matter how you say anybody who wants to trust the system that doesn't promise them retirement anymore is going to trust you is just lazy is intellectually dishonest as fuck.

Actually Marx recognizes that before people can make history, people need their basic necessities met. Please read The German Ideology. Under capitalism, most people starve particularly in the third world where most goods are produced.

Are you that ancap faggot from a few weeks back who though that he was making bank with $50k?

probably because we've never reached it. Even the most sectarian person here will admit that

Not only that but its completely raping the environment and the atmosphere and the idea someone in your field wouldn't understand the inherent risk of unfettered capitalism represents to the world, you're just fucking stupid. Too stupid to be in college.

American antifas are mostly LARPers, but eh. Nazis are always cunts, without exception.

A-are juggalos /ourguys/ ?

Absolutely

Fuck no. Nobody with taste that shitty is /ourguys/.

Fuck you

WHOOP WHOOP GET OUT

listen sweetie, no one owes you shit
all im saying is, hard working people with marketable skills love the market
and not all labor is equal, not everyone is equally effective per resource, nor is everyone equally productive

you can kvetch, bitch and moan, you can criticize till you are blue in the face, you can complain till you drop dead
but nobody really cares about any of your shit, any of your oppression or exploitation or whatever
if you are speaking english
and if you have internet access
you can learn pretty much any skill you want, and make a profit for yourself, coding is increasingly useful these days
if you have internet access, it pretty much means you have leisure time, you are not starving, you are not enslaved by 'the system' (lol), you are given every opportunity there is, and you are simply proactively choosing to be a good for nothing worthless complainer

Holy shit Jordan Peterson browses this board?

That's great.
I can't stand their music, but good on them

OP is an autistic faggot. confirmed.

Look at what you're doing on this board, for instance

This happens when you dogmatically cling to an ideology that you cannot question. Any kind of reading of this board shows that people argue here about theory and the minutiae.
Capitalists do not "create" wealth, this wealth is produced by the workers.
We don't think everyone is evil, but the capitalist mode of production is inherently exploitative.
Meanwhile, there have been many socialist societies that have been successful. Can you accept this or no?
You sound like you're freaking out lol
This is just an attack on the board's character, which isn't an argument. Furthermore, you can't speak for everyone on this board.
Don't know what this is supposed to mean. Seems vague.
Capitalists to not defend their wealth themselves. They have the police/military for that.
There have been successful leftist uprisings and coups throughout history. This takes not just hard work, but several people working together.
You should be appreciative. I'm happy for you. Thank everything you think is holy you weren't born in Somalia or some other third-world country.
If people in the third world could get by on that, they would live in a utopia. They do not.
Someone needs to do this work. If everyone was hard-working you're saying no one would have to do these tasks?
The capitalists are parasites that steal wealth from the workers. They do not "build" anything.

...

But everyone owes bankers, bosses, and landlords.

Just be one of the tiny fraction of people who make a little bit more than they need, and the system works fine! It's your own fault if you are one of the vast majority of people who die in debt.

...

if I work as a programmer I still have to sell my code to a capitalist and it becomes his "intellectual property", not an argument.

...

North Korea really does need to nuke America to slash the population of you fucking people down a little.

Are you a camwhore?

people talk into a microphone on youtube and make profit for themselves from that
people describing make up are making more money than they can spend
people talking about celebrities on the internet are making 6 digits a year

to be a leftist is to always find an excuse instead of finding a way
if someone gave you people a factory you'd run it into the ground, if someone gave you the whole planet you'd still manage to fucking complain about something

listen, normal people see this shit
they see you can make a profit just by reviewing movies
they see modern technology is doing all the serious shit, and people throw money at each other for playing videogames

PEOPLE SEE THERE IS NO EXPLOITATION, NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR DEAD CONSPIRACY THEORY

I'm literally in college right now, and a lot of people here actually work. Where are you getting this shit

Again, you don't know anyone on this board. You're just making assumptions.
Again, if you were born in Somalia, could you really have top grades in chemistry? That's absurdist to believe.
We don't believe that. In fact, we believe the "boogeyman" can be killed, and that society can be changed for the better.
That's cool. It has no bearing on this argument since it's anecdotal evidence, but thanks for letting us know what's going on in your life I guess…
Dialectical materialism (and the study of) has literally overthrown capitalist societies. You can mock them all you want, but that doesn't mean anything.
>this is why communism failed in the west, working class doesnt feel exploited
Have you heard of the "labor aristocracy"? This is an actual concept that is debated in several leftist circles (including here). Your ignorance in even knowing this concept seems to suggest a general ignorance of the concepts discussed in this board. Also, the FBI and CIA crushed all socialist movements in the West.
Again, there is a tendency called "Third-Worldism". You would know this if you had any actual knowledge of this board.

damn I wish I thought of that!
you have to be really fucked in the head to believe we live in a meritocracy.

Hey! Antifa are good and they are my comrades!
The only argument any nerds can seem to make about them is that they're "Counter-Productive." Guess what, a ton of liberals are waking up to how necessary violence against fascist movements is. I will never give a fascist quarter, and I will always deny them everywhere forever.

...

plot of land is cheap
farming mechanization is affordable

you can beg on the internet and gather enough money to buy marx's medieval means of production for yourself
fucking hell baseball cards and whatnot can fetch you a profit these days

you are not malnourished peasants you fat fucks
you are not oppressed, you are not exploited, you are just lazy and normal people dont care about your kvetching

nigger you arent somalian, you are just mental enough you wish you were so you'd have one more excuse, so you'd score additional point on the oppression olympics that only your internet friends care about

we live in a meritocratic enough society
taking in consideration that physical resources arent unlimited, it is pretty amazing how many scholarships are out there
sure we cant provide for every single person in society, but this is why we provide for virtually 99.99% of the children, who can all grow up into productive members of society, every single one, while some 80 year old on a death bed fails to receive an organ transplant….. yeah its sad but luckily every single hard working law abiding citizen can afford an above average income if he is willing to put in above average effort

Quoting Man of Steel isn't an argument.
The Third World has several hard-working people with skills. I don't think they like the market.
I agree with this. The capitalist's labor is nothing compared to the workers.
Like you are doing on this board.
Why are you on this board?
So you admit that capitalism won't work for everybody if they work hard.
This requires a computer. Computers are some of the most expensive consumer products out there. This presupposes that the people you're criticizing have a good deal of wealth.
Do you really think most people "choose" to starve to death?
That's just you.

...

None of these are arguments

Why do you keep calling me lazy when I'm learning medicine, I really don't fucking get it.

I'm against capitalism for totally different reasons than what what you're listing, and that's that it only offers a future that's really just uninhabitable. Nobody under 30 today is going to retire.

Please shut up you low Autism Level moron. This generation is worse off than the one before it and dying younger. There actually are more forces at work than personal effort. That's not an argument against trying hard in life but one has to accept that systems matter and influence people's lives and opportunity. Your bloviating bootstraps bullshit is barbaric.

a thread died for this shitshow

Who said that making money is hard? The problem is that it's impossible for everyone to make money like that. For every youtube celeb and movie critic, there are millions of people who get fucked by their employers. Is it that hard not to always think about yourself?

you being poor (or feeling like it) has two explanations:
one, the boss is stealing from you
two, you are simply lazy, unproductive, and have no marketable skills (in the eyes of other people, i know you think you are personally extremely valuable)

wealth inequality can also be easily explained away by two extremes:
one, the rich have this magic conspiracy theory tier network of exploitation of you personally (even tho most of the labor in the developed world is done trough mechanization)
two, lQ inequality, ability inequality, problem solving capacity inequality, efficiency inequality, etc

you people always seem to pick number one, but number two also solves the issue
so why do you always pick number one, when number two also fits
is there an experiment out there in the real world that we can perform, which exclusively proves one and excludes the other?

all in all, most of the normal people in society gave hard work a shot and it turned out rewarding enough, so i dont think anyone will go down this mental rabbit hole for any other reason than entertainment

How useful are any of these things? By what you describe, it seems that hard work is not the way to survive in the capitalist economy. Also, this presupposes computers, recording equipment, and makeup. All these things have costs they are not free.
Do you think criticism is not useful? This seems to be a recurring theme with you.
How do you feel about socialist Russia beating America into space with Sputnik? Do you think they were just running factories into the ground?
None of this benefits anyone. The people that made your clothes did so for pennies. All you're proving is how fickle your mode of production actually is.
Marxism is not a conspiracy theory. As a matter of fact, the rate of profit to fall is such an accurate prediction that bourgeois economists have to account for it.

taking in consideration that physical resources arent unlimited, it is pretty amazing how many scholarships are out there
which don't mean jack shit when you graduate college unable to find a job that gives you a liveable wage
yes we can, google "Keynesian economics" or "jobs program"
we don't
dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-hunger-us
epi.org/publication/class-of-2016/
communists don't give a fuck about these people, that simply isn't the problem here. the problem is that working people do not make as much as they provide for the leaches of the landowning class. the problem is that THOSE 80 year olds get a death bed for FREE simply according to the law
he shouldn't have to, there is enough technology to pay every single worker a substantial wage for putting in minimal effort. Instead HALF of his working hours are spent putting money into a banker's account.

thanks for the psychological assessment
when are you going to make real arguments?

so we moved the goalposts from yourselves being in chains to some somalian strawman kid somewhere being in chains
yeah well, this just goes to show that you people arent "materialist dialectical" whatever, but idealistic complainers
that's your ideology
ideal of complaining is the central thing
you wont find modern commies in the western world building shit
just complaining about other people building shit

well listen
you own a computer
and you own a internet connection
you own modern means of production
now go to work and make wealth
and help the somalian kid
with your own money
there, A L L the problems solved

That's simply wrong. Entertainment does benefit people and if someone can live on YT money, tons of people found that their content enriches their life.

Your other points are legit though.

You are so tediously stupid, belligerently moronic, blind, inhuman, and most of all wrong.

...

now I have to work to provide for my shareholders AND a somalian kid. how does that solve anything?

Getting a piece of pie, means that someone else isn't getting theirs. Do you think you'd be able to afford your laptop if thousands of people weren't ripped off on the way?

pic related
Do you think if everyone just had a gofundme there would be no poverty? That's a ridiculous argument.
These are extremely rare, and most people do not have this option.
theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/10/nutrition-hunger-food-children-vitamins-us
killedbypolice.net/
I guess real Somalians don't exist. Honestly though, most people there don't have an internet connection and cannot speak for themselves. Does my mentioning them trigger you?
So you admit that this society is not fully meritocratic?
Not everyone is living in suburban America. The average joe from the Third World can't do this and you know it.
13 million children in the United States don't consume enough calories. That is definitely more than 0.01%. To say nothing of the Third World which you are actively ignoring.
Someone's got to clean those toilets, man.
You've literally said not everyone can do it, and now you're claiming the opposite.

Hey, Marty, shouldn't you be getting back to 1985?

you wish lol

but yeah anyway, most of the normal people will give hard work a shot
they'll make a personal profit
they will like it
they'll find it comfy
and none will go down these mental rabbit holes, not even for entertainment

we are all burgeronis these days
we are exploiting the modern agricultural mechanization, modern mining industry, gps fishing boats that are fishing automatically, etc etc
normal people gave hard work a shot
and normal people found it rewarding and satisfying

days when hard work meant children digging coal is over

extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs
take me to a court if you think i stole something, pro tip you wont
accusations without proof can be dismissed without proof
lol
this is your brain on leftypol
ayy karamba

I can't even understand what you're saying anymore. Seriously, it's not english.

Welcome to ancapistan where the numbers are made up, and the math doesn't matter.

...

Economic exploitation and inequality are accepted facts by pretty much everyone, even the orange memer acknowledges it. If you think it's an extraordinary claim, your knowledge is insufficient to have any debate.

No, they won't. More than 80% of Americans have more debt than assets, and it only gets worse in the Third World (apart from the Deep South).

Both are fucking retarded.
Both are puppets

okay.
Where does profit come from?
You have gone on about your chemistry grades and your guaranteed well-paid job. You have gone at length at how valuably you think you are, not us.
okay.
There is no "conspiracy theory". Profit comes from the surplus value that comes from the workers. Without this you would have no profit. The rich compete with each other, some fail, and the ones that fail are bought by the other ones. This creates concentration of capital. None of this is a conspiracy theory, in fact it's easily observable.
The Soviet Union and China implemented suggestions from the poorest members of society (in what is called the Mass Line). This initiative was hugely successful and the Soviet and Chinese GDP rose steadily as a result. Can you explain this?
What does this even mean?
Most people DO work hard. Most people ALSO don't become successful. Can you explain this discrepancy?

Nothing extraordinary about that claim. Everytime someone gets a job it means someone else isn't getting a job. Everytime someone gets a shitload of money it means someone else isn't getting a shitload of money. Do you know what scarcity means?

but how is this a bad thing tho
debt correlates more strongly with capital consumption, eating the breeding stock, spending money you dont have, lack of personal responsibility, etc etc than it does with conspiracy theories

average joe still believes that if he works hard to become a doctor/engineer and is also a law abiding citizen, he'll do just fine
the situation isnt bad enough for the average joe for him to start going around shouting
ITS THE KIKES!!
or
CAPITALIST BLOODSUCKERS!!

internet people need holocaust and hotpockets
pol and leftypol are literally entertainment, not a serious whatever
you children are probably too young, got your parents feeding you, and you probably dont care about starting a family yet.. so you spend your free time larping
THE FILTHY KIKES/CAPITALIST SCUM
with each other

antifa is fucking good you damned charlatans

i can't believe this is controversial on the board ya'll suck

What do they actually do beyond beating up couple fascist scumbags? Which is obviously good just pretty pointless for the big picture and maybe even negative due the effect on public opinion.

This is the only criticism people ever make, but you're blind if you can't see how public opinion is turning in their favor.

ye
finding people a priori guilty, without even a trial, and using extrajudical violence, seemingly randomly
like cavemen

if you children werent impotent, you'd be dangerous
luckily doing serious violence requires knowledge of calculus
and radar absorbent materials
and you children focus more on what you wear because its all about impressing other fellow children so normal people dont have to worry about anything

What should leftists do then? Pick roses and given them to fascists? Play by porkies rules? Sit down and vote for leftists like Hillary?
Go ahead and talk all about how we should all join trot organizations and hand out newspapers. That works so well. I'm not saying antifa is perfect, they are an it reactionary but ffs

The most important answer is none of the above. Wealth inequality is explained mostly by government policy. It exploded since the late '70s because Western governments adopted policies to make it do so.

Worker productivity explains little. Their productivity has increased considerably over the last few decades but their wages have not. All the gains of greater productivity are going to the top, and that is by design. The super wealthy did not suddenly around 1980 become much more smart, able and hard working, while the poor and middle class workers suddenly became more lazy, stupid and inefficient. What changed was global and national economic policies. See these handy charts for help.

the situation is bad enough for people like Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn to gain lots of popularity
Regardless of what you think about them they do represent a general dissatisfaction with the current quality of life (even if they don't seek to abolish the system that causes it)

...

You are right we should beat up other proles in the name of idpol that's what, leftists do!!! Don't fight the power, fight the rednecks!!!
Charlotteville was a mistake.

Both of these struggles are connected. It's not our fault if we have a bigger picture than assuming everyone lives in the suburbs.
You're gonna have to elaborate here.
alternet.org/culture/crybabies-1-percent-rich-complain-while-getting-away-everything
The CIA and FBI targets them. Also, there are communist guerilla groups in India, Nepal, and the Philippines to name a few. Also, there are socialist orgs in the Western World. DSA… IWW… PSL…
When we complain about "Building shit" it's usually a repressive organization. This thread is literally about Nazis. Are you complaining that we mock them?
The people of the Third World is where all your goods come from. If they wanted to, all of them could just stop and leave you dead in the water. I don't make moral arguments, I make practical ones. Meanwhile, you've been psychoanalyzing everyone on this board with some truly awful pop psychology.
ok
uh-huh
What is with the obnoxious way you type?
Lmao
I already work, otherwise I'll starve.
The rich are much better equipped to do this, they have more money than literally all of us (even you!) on those board combined.
Um, no.

And who has the most power over govt? Could it be the rich? Could our current neoliberal system perhaps be a negative feedback loop where the rich get richer? And how exactly will removing government magically dissolve wealths tendency to accumulate, and give a select some disproportionate power?

...

Yes, open fascists are proles, and we can convince them through reasoned rhetoric in the agora! You're such a clown. Remember, you can't argue with a fascist, you really can't. Opinion is turning our way now.

The fucking Washington Post just published an article advocating direct action.

washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/15/charlottesville-showed-that-liberalism-cant-defeat-white-supremacy-only-direct-action-can/?utm_term=.8fbe3e7481bd

WEW. They are misguided as fuck. Like spoiled kids, they could use a good smack in the head. Prole or not that is not grounds for such fetishism

kys dumb opportunist.

What did he mean by this?

They're also not "proles." Richard Spencer is a rentier parasite who owns a plantation and lives off of a his family's land. Damigo lives in his family's compounds. Plenty of them were sporting thousands of dollars worth of gear.

Mainly due the nazis killing someone when the public was watching and the most inept president in history making one of his most braindead comments. The orange brainlet winning was the best thing to happen to antifa, which doesn't speak well about their own efforts before.

Try avoid violence completely and be more accessible to working class. The alt-right is doing so well because their message and solutions are fucking simple. Though given how divided the left is and always was, and decades of anti-commie and anti-unions brainwashing it's indeed a massive challenge.

Is important if you want to win more people for your cause.

cracking down on Nazis doesn't mean the "Opinion is turning our way now". This has never been the case.

This.

And yet these guys and scum like Farage marketed themselves successfully as the supporters of the working class, something antifa isn't doing nearly as well despite actually being on the side of the working class.

Are you being serious, or are you actually wondering how it can be a bad thing that people who work their whole lives–the vast majority of the world–never actually have anything to show for it? The people who make everything have nothing. How the fuck can you possibly think that is meritocratic?

Plenty of working class people support antifa. This is historically and contemporaneously true. You live in a bubble.

Also, I've yet to see evidence that these American fascists are supported by the "working class." They're a petit bourgeois supported by petit bourgeois elements. It's very good right now that there is a genuine awakening happening among working class people about what's going on. Despite the myth literal reactionaries push about antifa being all middle class kids, a lot of the are poor and come from poor backgrounds, and protect their communities. These fascists are rich or comfortable and they attack other communities.

People criticizing antifa are literally brainwashed by reactionary propaganda.

I agree with you here.
But the capitalist takes the surplus value of most of this "profit"
So, how do you explain every proletarian revolt and revolution is history?
BURGERONIS LMAO WHAT
What are you going to do about the automation of all industries in the coming years? People are going to lose their jobs regardless how hard they work. They can't compete with cheap machines.
This still happens man.
We're not talking about ghosts here. We're talking about easily observable things.
The courts would be on your side. The courts aren't there for objective justice. They are there to justify the rule of the ruling class. Go to the Navajo Nation. See the conditions the people live in and now that it's perfectly legal.
You haven't answered how the Soviet and Chinese economy were able to compete with the U.S. for years.
The bourgeoisie do this. This is observable fact.
OK.

How are things in the 1970s?

I agree, 2 valid points

Sucks because the economy is not simple, Marxist theory is not simple. It's really easy to look at somebody and say "they don't look like me, I hate them". It's much harder to make clear how the rich use complicated statecraft to manipulate the poor, or get them off the instilled anti communist fear

Anti facism facism.

Spoken like a true suburbanite.
Again, these are not conspiracy theories. How do you feel about the rate of profit falling? You still haven't answered.
It is considerably harder to do this now. Don't you want to know why it's not like the 1970s anymore?
What is the topic of this thread?
More people are unironically saying this. This is making you look out of touch.
What the fuck am I looking at?
You are so serious right now, lol.
You just know everyone here, don't you. You bring this up a lot. Is this projection?
user has joined the Nazbol gang

The Republican party always had a solid working class supporter base. The petit bourgeois are the brains of this cancer but they don't have the numbers to got elected by themselves.

That true, although it remains to be seen to what end.

Yeah, definitely but more mainstream left parties found a way to sell their ideas in Europe. If Einstein found ways to dumb down the relativity of time and quantum physics, surely one can do that with marxism too. Though as already noted, it's extra hard in a country where the democrats are considered left wing and everything further is labeled extreme left.

is it true that leftypol has no idea that fascism comes from fasces, a 2000+ years old ceremonial bundle of sticks used by the fucking romans, and that it has absolutely nothing to do with whatever the fuck blackshirts or brownshirts or nazis or italians did??

it was a symbol of authority for governors of rome
why the fuck is everyone abusing this piece of history?

What is the point of this stupid piece of trivia that literally everyone knows, sherlock?

...

You're not Asian so I doubt you holding a swastika is going to escape the context of Nazi Germany.

well i just mean, the word carries 0 information, hell i have heard it used in like a bazillion different contexts and interpretations and whatnot, in fact it confuses me now more than anything else

is fascist = a…. bad guy? who is also violent? a bad violent guy? is that what fascist it?
i mean bad guy means fuck all for a start, its like there's no meaning to any of this shit, its becoming more and more random by the day

democracynow.org/2017/8/14/cornel_west_rev_toni_blackmon_clergy
slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html
You could just scroll up to see articles that show antifa saving people from violent white supremacists. Keep in mind that I also believe that several people on this board have legitimate criticisms of antifa. Making Nazis sad isn't one of them.
Either we're dangerous or we're not user. You can't have it both ways.
LMAO
…You're not making any sense.
The black bloc's tactics and clothing are this way to avoid identification from authorities. It has nothing to do with looking cool. I guess you think they look cool?

neoliberal authoritarian police state

what was antifa even doing there in the first place? didnt the nazis get their legal permit to larp? why the fuck would any leftist larper even show up? for what purpose?
how is disruping tiki torch nazi larpers making the world a better place?

im telling you, a whole lot of people are just too damn bored, so they go around and do…. noise pollution
maybe someone was actually doing something productive in that charlotes-place, or maybe he just went to sleep
and you larpers woke him up with your noise

nazis had a legal paper that said they can walk around there
antifa didnt
if i was in charge of the place i'd mobilize national guard and actually keep the antifa away
get a fucking permit and larp on public property to your heart's content
but dont piss on other people's legal parade

that's what happens when 14 million people in your country are unemployed

I'm going to piss on other people's legal parades.

whatever grandpa i'm getting bored just take your pills and go to bed

Making a stand against nazis is making the world a better place. It's nothing grand but still matters.

and this is why the national guard needs to put an artillery shell trough your head
some law and order > no law and order
some peace and quiet > no peace and quiet

why does working class citizenry has to deal with your shit?
if you ask me, your larpgins should be at least kept civil
you larp on this day, other side larps on the other day, and working people know the schedule so they can avoid both

but if you start breaking the schedule and causing public disorder and damaging the public infrastructure, you are the problem for all i care, and national guard should use you as a target practice

Which is better than just showing up and holding a sign

Priorities people

I hope you realize the working class is in opposition to you you sick little fascist.

...

If you read the articles I linked you would see that they were attacking clergy and Cornel West among a few. That's what they attempt to prevent.
To defend people against ruling class oppression.
How are tiki torch Nazi larpers making the world a better place? Are you defending them? You know they killed someone, right?
What an insultingly stupid way to view the world.
People were doing something productive actually. They were removing a statue that glorifies the racist American Confederacy. Now, we can argue about the practical value of such a thing. But, the left didn't start the noise. That was the idiot rightists that you seem to be defending.
You're really hung about what's considered legal. Slavery was legal. The holocaust was legal. Do you defend that crap?
The police were actually there and abandoned the peaceful counter-protestors so they could be beaten up or killed by the Nazis. Do you even know what happened or what?
All you do is claim people larp. No one can have a legitimate greivance with society?
These people were violent and going to kill people. Read the articles I linked.

then why did the elected representative of the working class allow the larp?

man, im 100% in favor of these larpers killing each other
the sooner they kill each other, the sooner the working class citizenry gets rid of the noise pollution
but my problem with this whole thing is that the innocent people might end up hurt

both the nazis and the antifa showed up there to stir shit, if you show up to stir shit i dont care if you get hurt
antifa especially in this case because they didnt even bother to jump trough the hoops and get their paper that says they cared about legitimacy

Wew, because they don't represent the working class you dweeb.

Antifa are not larpers. They're people who showed up to defend their communities. You're such a bullshit dissembler.
"Durr they needed a piece of paper to defend their town." Yet non of you idiots seem to care that the fascists marched the night before with torches without a permit.

The police were the ones that broke them up.

Big talk, little man.
Nazis attacking people isn't law and order. It's not peace and quiet either. You want to blame a side, blame the Nazis.
Yes, how dare antifa save members from the working class from nazis.
Tell that to the side you've been defending.
Antifa doesn't have a "schedule". They show up if there's fascists trying to hurt people. Is this really that hard to understand?
So we agree on killing Nazis, then.

...

if antifa is an organization of peace and tolerance, why do they need to cover their face?
if you want to prevent violence, its fine with me, but how is pitting these two rabid dogs with a history of rabid doggery into the same cage a productive thing to do?

yeah well this whole thing was bullshit from the start, i dont see why does anyone need to add more to it
just let it fucking go away, they came there to see the statue or some shit, they even announced it, all you had to do is not get involved
come on this is too fucking simple, are you pretending you do not understand
how can they attack people if there's no one to attack? they scheduled a walk, all you had to do was schedule your own walk some other day instead of showing up the same one

Yeah you're right, why would you compare antifa with a group that refuses to acknowledge the murder of someone and injuring of 19.

What? Do you even know who Richard Spencer is? How do you not know anything?
Do you larp as a hobby or something? You can't stop saying that word.
What do you even mean by noise pollution?
Yeah, that's why antifa was there.
That's the Nazis. The nazis stirred up shit. A person died. Can you read?
If only they got a legal paper to show they can rescue people from white supremacists!

...

Yes, but not because they're violent.

the way i see it, nazis schedules their orderly peaceful walk that is perfectly legal to do, and antifa ambushed them
they even had police escort

i mean i have a fucking job, i dont pay too much attention to this shit, but it seems to me like you are trying to tell me that the nazis tried to siege charlotte with artillery and whatnot, tried to burn everyone in the city at a cross, went in there to loot and rape
and noble antifa thugs with their baseball bats of tolerance and molotovs of peace moved in to stop them

lol
they obviously have too much time on their hands if they can adapt their lives to nazi marches
and this whole "nazi march" thing sounds like they nazis were marching prisoners of war into ovens

national guard should have blew em up both with the same cannon

...

the way you see things sucks

are you telling me that the nazis gathered with a purpose to kill this one person there?
or are you telling me that antifa made a mess and got one of its own fat warriors killed in what would otherwise be a 100% peaceful and orderly not-even-news-worthy tier event?

...

The guy pulled a knife on his own wheel chair bound mother for not letting him play video games enough, is the guy who ran over people, so yeah

Probably

The police help the fascists. They have to protect themselves too y'know. As I said, it's not about looking cool. It's about being practical. The police WILL attack or arrest you even if you rescued innocent people from being killed.
cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/confederate-statue-pulled-down-north-carolina-trnd/index.html
>if you want to prevent violence, its fine with me, but how is pitting these two rabid dogs with a history of rabid doggery into the same cage a productive thing to do?
They didn't reason themselves into their ideology. What makes you think fascists can be reasoned with? If someone is attacking you because of MUH ROCKEFELLERS there;'s no getting through to them. Do you think the original Nazis could have been reasoned with?
How were they "pissed" on? You keep ignoring that the fascists were the ones that murdered somebody.
Saving folks from being killed is a noble pursuit. Me and someone in antifa might disagree on a lot, but protecting people is noble. I don't see how you can argue with this.
The fascists aren't going away on their own. This is cowardice.
kek
slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html
democracynow.org/2017/8/14/cornel_west_rev_toni_blackmon_clergy
Here they are, again. Please read them. People were being attacked and one person died. Stop being dumb

Why is this thread not saged?

Or anchored at least

are you people finally aware how idiotic your position is, that you have to strawman this tiki march into an assembly to kill 1 overweight female person that showed up there for the purpose of stirring shit?

yeah i dont think the stated purpose of that tiki torch bullshit was to run over that one fat chick
sorry

did the gnatsies gather there on that day to kill that one person? cos you are making it sound like a whole bunch of people gathered around to kill that one person

The guy who did it also injured 18 other people, more than likely planned to do it knowing they would show up since he had a violent past and went to Juvenile Hall.

No but the one nazi who did is charged with murder among other things now, and you refuse to not take responsibility for radicalizing a youth to violence.

The Daily Stormer won't come back btw

i wasnt even on that continent
do you happen to be clinically retarded btw? i was literally and geographically not even on that continent
and i was responsible?

my point is, talk shit get hit
you werent forced at gunpoint to be ran over by a car
you had to be a retard, and show up at a place you could refuse to show up, and then you got ran over by a car

my entire fucking point is that retarded shit like this is extremely easy to avoid
but i guess everything you dont like is gnatsi
and people continents away that disagree with you should be charged with murder

Attacking clergy is a legal thing?
The police left so the nazis could attack and possibly kill. I don't see why this is so hard.
I have a job where I work 13 hour shifts and I seem to have a better grasp of this situation than you. I confess I'm not an expert or anything but you are just being willfully ignorant.
They. Killed. A. Person. They. Intentionally. Did. It.
Yeah, actually. I'm not going to call them the best or anything but they were clearly in the right, here.
Some of them lose jobs, some of them get imprisoned, some of them die. They sacrifice a lot to stand up for what they believe. They're definitely not cowards who want to stop "noise pollution"
Do the nazis have to do this before you agree to stop them?
Y'know you're really making me reconsider my stance on antifa. You make them sound… so heroic.

No but your board was collectively responsible for radicilizing someone over a period of time into abusing his mother over video games, going to Juvenile Hall, then going and running over people.

He did this all in the last three years before he got charged with murder the last seven days.

Oh is that your point, I thought this was about lawful assembly

Agreed, don't show up to a nazi rally unless you want to lose your job, get doxxed, get laughed at by the entire country, face a jail sentence, or be associated with a murder :v)

...

That probably wasn't exactly the plan, no. I don't know what you're trying to prove here, man.

hol up
let me get this straight

evil gnatsis are evil cos they did something illegal, like attacking people and killing one
but leftists are righteous because they do something illegal, like doxing and and attack people and so on

none of this shit makes any sense

10/10

Murder and assault are in two different ball parks of charges. Besides, you guys dox people already.

You're the ones who escalated this to murder and now are associated with murder, don't forget about that. A Holla Forums poster didn't have to do that. Nor did they have to abuse their own wheel chair bound mother constantly.

But you're going to get doxxed more often now, so congratulations I guess

im trying to prove that you have two violent groups of people that are both.. violent groups of people
and that working class shouldnt associate themselves with either

well now i've spelled it out
lets see how is antifa assaulting people and radicalizing them into nazis ok but nazis assaulting people and radicalizing them into also nazis not ok

your "us vs them" mentality is showing
i dont even browse pol
all im trying to do is show to you your rabid fanaticism
look up your own posts
look up your own instant assumption of 'ur a nazi, lets kill a nazi!!!!!!!!!' while im honest to god here for shits and giggles

you're going first

people are becoming nazis to protect themselves from you

i dont think thats gonna fly in the hague

Bullshit lol

So am I, but you're doing a terrible job.

You're making this less about your ideology and how people respond to it and more about how people respond to it and how you respond to it, and that's completely semantics.

You came here to do PR and I get that.

Well now, they're doing a terrible job of protecting themselves from being doxxed.

Fuck off, hippie.

You seek liberals' approval. I mean wow.

But that's not even the main problem. The main problem is that it's not just you and the fash anymore. Your country is on a brink of civil war, and you and your nazi enemies are positioning themselves on the opposite fronts of it. The more violence there is, the stronger and more appealing they'll become. Especially if there's no actual fash around and you just keep attacking regular Trump voters like you normally do.

So fash sympathizers?

I rest my case.

How about you read some philosophy (other than Aquinas you walking meme) and history (other than holocaust deniers, maybe something about medieval europe or ancient greece? idk)