How many people DID communism kill in soviet union and prc according to lefty/pol/

A genuine question.

Back your statements with sources if possible please.

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ideologies don't kill, material conditions do

Seeing as how the world is still overrun with bourgies obviously not enough

not enough

Less than the Black Book of Communism says, more than the tankies proclaim, too much for anyone to defend it seriously.

I don't know enough to add on that.

A fucking lot. millions
most of them

communism killed 300 million people and the evil nazi racist communist trump is collaborating with soviet russia and killing millions more

Both of these are correct

What does it mean for an ideology or an abstract idea to kill someone? You absolutely need to be able to answer this before it's possible to start talking numbers.

When an american cop wrongly shoots an unarmed suspect, or someone dies way too early because they can't afford to go to the doctor, were those people killed by capitalism?

None, ideologies can't kill people.

I specifically mentioned in the op the Soviet Union and the People's republic of China to prevent the "0 because ideologies can't kill people" argument but i guess that was not clear enough, perhaps i should have specified it as Stalin and Mao instead.

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Not even a tankie but more people would have died if the Kuomintang or Whites won.

That's still not sufficient
>How many people DID communism kill in soviet union and prc
What does it mean for a person in the Soviet Union to have been killed by communism? Does dying from starvation count as "killed by communism"? If there's a famine in a capitalist country, would you say that those people were killed by capitalism? If a drunk NKVD agent killed someone for fun, was that person killed by communism, or simply by a drunk asshole? Are we supposed to count people who recieved the death penalty but for legitimate crimes? Dead nazi soldiers? Is everyone who ever died in the Soviet Union victims of communism?

Oh, that's easy, only maybe a dozen guys between them. I'm sure they had better things to do than get their hands dirty.
Sage for ez answer.

Very well, perhaps i should rephrase it as "how many people were killed or otherwise died as a direct results of the policies implemented by the bolshevik party of the soviet union after the revolution,"

Hey now we're getting somewhere. It's a shame I can't actually answer that though, but at least the question sort of makes sense now. Just keep in mind that it's not at all easy to decide what's a direct result of a certain policy and what's not.

This
Throwing around numbers is pointless. We have to look at the material condition to see what did they improve. That is a lot more straightforward and easier than just spamming some personally preferred bodycount everywhere.

Stalin:

Mao:

Yes, innocent people die in revolution and warfare, but innocent people die every day under capitalism, and it's worth the sacrifice if it's for the purpose of building a better world. If you disagree with this notion, you are simply against revolution.

Kulaks, classtraitors and counter revolutionaries are not people

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SIXTY NINE BILLION COMUNILLION AND STILL COUNTING FAGGOT STILL GOING STRONG

THEY'RE EVERYWHERE

WHY THE OTHER NIGHT I WOKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND I TRIPPED ON THEM THAT'S RIGHT A COUPLE MILLIONS WERE IN MY HOUSE AND IF YOU OPEN UP A CUPBOARD OR SOME SHIT A FEW MILLION WOULD SPILL OUT TRY IT FAGFACE

most kulaks lived awful lives not much better than former serfs.

later you'll post 'there's no ethical consumption under capitalism' while buying a new phone, expressing yourself to be millions of times more wealthy than the average kulak.

being a Kulak had little to do with being wealthy, the kulaks were reviled for owning land and using that land to manipulate grain prices and exploit other peasants.

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Buy the ticket yourself

Soviet union: I've heard 800,000 not including the Holodomor from people I trust. I don't think anybody disputes the 5-10 million range for the Holodomor. They certainly didn't actually cause the famine, but it's alleged that they stood by and did nothing. I haven't reviewed the arguments there, but I find it believable (it'd hardly be the first imperial power to do something like that to an unwillingly ruled population).

Going to do some real research on this and come back.

Other famine and disease deaths shouldn't really be considered. Liberals might want to claim incompetence but that's nuts, the situation in 1917/18 was so bad that by all rights everybody should have died when the western powers cut off aid, the fact they didn't is a minor miracle.

PRC: None, because its never been run by communists. Mao wanted a peasant society, not a worker one, he drew from Lenin's ideas about how to have a revolution, but discarded all the Marxism.

what did he mean by this

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the kulaks caused it and they got what they deserved

Is capitalism a material condition or an ideology?

also happened in British occupied India and Malaysia, desu.

Several million. Proportionally, at a much lower rate than fascism considering how short a period fascists were in charge.

It's also worth noting that the exact same level of violence tends to occur when a country develops its productive forces and enters a new mode of production. It just happened on a much shorter scale in the workers' states, so it seems significantly worse. And there's no doubt that it WAS absolutely worse than it needed to be, primarily due to the failure of exporting the revolution to the advanced capitalist countries and having to build an entire industrial base from scratch. And it also lead to the development of irrational, highly repressive state bureaucracies that had no regard for efficiency or human life.

So, basically, the socialist revolutions can be said to have killed tens of millions of people. Capitalism can be said to have killed almost certainly several billion people. Nominally AND proportionally, capitalism is a much more destructive system.