What are your thoughts on the IRA?

What are your thoughts on the IRA?

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Shame the Brighton bombing didn't go to plan

Not leftist. I know its cool to be anti-anglo here but lets be honest for once.

The only thing they did wrong was fail to kill Thatcher.

Tiocfaidh ár lá

wtf? i hate the IRA now

The movie was fairly sympathetic to Republicanism though???

COME OUT YE BLACK AN TANS

shouldve killed thatcher tbh

Buried in a pencil case

Ye

I'm not saying that self-defence wasn't justified. I'm saying there was no need to bomb London.

War and conflict just isnt black and white, nor can a struggle be bloodless. Bear with me and throw the moral lens out the window for a sec and try to see WHY they did it. The basic belief of a gorilla campaign teaches that to defeat a modern well disciplined traditional army, the price of occupation must outweigh the benefits to the occupying force. Now if the IRA had simply targeted loyalists paras and unionist politicians, the average brit and the occupying government in parliament could not be expected to give a single fuck, if anything it helped them by removing another problem. bringing the scythe and the costs to the capital, it starts to become much more real. I find it hard to argue with their results as well, the expected backlash and internment was a massive recruitment boon, better than theyve ever had. it also drove the British government into secret, then public talks from the late thatcher years right through to early blair.

It was brutal and morally wrong to kill civilians, but i cant deny the efficacy of it in this circumstance, and i know if i was on the army council in the 60s and 70s id have a difficult time coming up with an alternate strategy.
Simple self defense would not have got rid of the problem. Political Representation was utterly stifled. Public pressure was utterly ignored. Bloody and brutal Revolution isnt just for dusty or jungle countries.

For a modern context, just try telling the Palestinians to calm down, only use self defense and stop targeting settlers, just have a wee cup of tea with the IDF and work it all out.

Dont mean to take a harsh tone man, but i literally cannot see how else the RA could have done it. im stressing i dont think it was morally right, but tactically, i think it was justified.

Terror without virtue is fatal, virtue without terror is impotence. That they are terrorists goes without question, now how are they not leftists "in the slightest"?

They have unusually long index fingers and show off trigger discipline.

THE IRA DID NOTHING WRONG

It was necessary, no doubt about that. Should we glorify it ? I don't think so. Should we criticise it, say which deaths could have been avoided ? Absolutely.

The critic also lies heavily on the British government who did absolutely nothing to solve it peacefully, even actively made the situation worse.

They were driven by nationalism and the will to practise their religion freely.

Which I respect entirely, and which can be valid reasons to fight. But they are not motivated by leftist ideals.

The IRA diddnt fight for religious reasons. the fought to advance the cause of irish unity and did accept fighters from all walks of life. many cells treated them like shit but they were not catholic supremacists. i think many were motivated by leftist ideals, not the provos so much but others. anyone who flies the starry flag for ireland is a leftist for sure.

irish unity is not irish supremacy, i actually support breaking away from uk control. i support a socialist Ireland. those two ideals are not incompatible. tbh calling it a nationalist struggle is a poor label, republican is a better label.

Many elements of the IRA were and continue to be leftist, almost all were anti-colonial and anti-imperialist which is at the very least worth supporting against global capital.

Also Irish leftists started the war for independence.

Yes there was. Fuck Britain.

...

I'm not an expert - only read wikipedia articles and visited a museum in Dublin - but I've understood that the main factors were prosecution of Cathotic Irish people in old Belfast.
It is true that some franges of the IRA were also leftwing, but many were not.

Mate, wikipedia articles? That's not where you should get your history. Then you have the gall to say something as categorically wrong as this, having admitted your ignorance beforehand? It sounds like you haven't even read your articles because they don't keep it a secret, the provos and the official IRA were both openly fighting for a socialist, unified republic.

All I got from them is that they were a vast multitude of factions.
I just don't support terrorism and was told in schools that it stems from religious tensions.

The IRA was an ethno-nationalist movement - basically anti-Communist, you fucking retard.

Jesus fucking Christ this forum has become so retarded.

Don't actually know that much about them, anyone that opposes Thatcher gets at least some points from me though.
Also they have some tunes

SING UP THE 'RA

every time

They were acutely aware of anglo treachery, and sought a sovereign Ireland to better achieve their socialist aims. And they were bloody right, the Anglos spent 30 years occupying a shithole like Northern Ireland for little more than pride, could you imagine what a little class warfare would have provoked?

Besides, who said they were communists?

There weren't, the provos did 90% of the fighting. It wasn't about theology either, it was about the systematic oppression and exploitation of catholics. Prods were fine to join the IRA, the implicit message behind Irish nationalism was to get the fuck away from the anglos, and to create a free state for all Irish, of all classes.

It's changed a lot since the '70s though, and like al lot of left-wing groups, Sinn fein have degenerated towards liberalism. But they are the only legitimate representatives of the IRA, and the ones still fighting spend more of their time dealing heroin than politics.

...

The Wind That Shakes The Barley
youtube.com/watch?v=x_IXyQiY11M

Fantastic tragic film about the Irish war of independence and subsequent civil war that explores the socialist roots of the IRA.

The Irish struggle was mainly presbyterian before 1800. Daniel o Connell used the wide apparatus of the catholic church, and the anger at voter supression against the faith to build up a popular resistance and overcome the failings of the previous rising under wolfe tone. O Connell was a liberal, but he understood that practically speaking the irish struggle had to be tied to catholicism, but at the same time its important to note the church generally stood against every attempt at liberation and never integrated with the mostly leftist leadership of the various extra parliamentary forces. indeed, many revolutionaries were antagonistic towards faith as a whole, while at the same time defending the catholic populace. They even undermined the limerick soviet(think paris commune but with more potatoes)

in the 20th century, the catholic Irish state was against the IRA in the north, the church hierarchy as well.
The IRA defended catholics from genocidal loyalist forces, and anti-Irish British policy. that does not make them a catholic supremacist force in any shape or form.

Internationally the Ira had contacts with many left-wing forces, their members were mostly leftwing, the irish working class community is extremely left wing and in the north particually.
Sinn Fein in government has not been a particularly left wing force due to practical consideration (there is no opposition in stormont, only a grand unity made up from the major parties including extreme right wing unionists) but their aims and goals have always been extremely long term and include abolishing both British control over the north, and the anglo imposed, and catholic controlled, Dail in the south with the expressed aims to create an internationalist socialist Ireland under the starry plough. i thought this shit was common knowledge…

As soon as the Irish state is reformed and the border is but a memory, i wont be able to support the authoritarian slant in the IRA and Sinn Fein, but i understand they are still definitely on the left.

I Guess Castro wasnt left either, he only protected people who were ethnically Cuban and majority catholic…Plus he coulda just waved a placard at the Batistas to make them realize how mean they were. *pic related

*The Church undermined the limerick soviet which was a leftist unity movement by irish catholics, sorry i put that in the most confusing place possiable

Forgot to mention as well that the modern IRA were formed after the civil war. They essentially were on the side of abolishing private property and refusing vatican control. they lost that war, but continued to fight to liberate the north with aim to usurping the Dail.

I respect your opinion and I can easily understand why you're so bent on defending them - you're emotionally invested in them.

As a foreigner, I am not, and I think that's where our divergences and misunderstandings come from.

Thanks for the link, I don't deny they had a lot of left-wing rhetoric, but I don't think I should support them uncritically.

I don't mean it as a stealth insult or anything, just to clarify. There is nothing wrong with being emotionally invested in what is close to you, your country included.
I'll try to get a few books on their history, but I already have a big backlog of books to read…

The IRA is a pretty general term. You have the Provos who were less explicitly leftist but had many leftists in them and still had the goal of a 32 county socialist republic. Then you had the Stickies, (official IRA) who were less popular but definitely leftists. In fact some stickies later left to join the center left democratic left party. This party then later got fused into the labour party, so a few former stickies have actually had quite high up positions in the Irish government, like Eamon Gilmore who was Tánaiste (deputy prime minister) from 2011 to 2014. So yeah the IRA ranges from more reactionary right wing types, to socialists, to tankies, to essentially gangs in their modern spin offs.

Its fine, i diddnt take any insult from it.
I support leftism and, in my country at least, strict non-violence and only reacting to attacks has been pointless. violence, while appalling, was the only option for a very long time to further the revolution. sometimes it can go really fucking wrong when allied to the wrong people(religious IDpol lunatics taking over the republic) or unspeakable civilian casualties but i still support it as it challenges the status quo for the betterment of the workers and the poor.

i fully support your right to find them morally reprehensible, as well as severely critique them and the various schools of irish revolutionary thought. i would join them in said endeavor if do you happen to want to read about them, and the struggle.

My point is simply that calling them not leftists is simply wrong. im not saying it to be edgy but morality is not the measure of ones political leanings, they are leftists.

Nevermind, after seeing this documentary on Irish oppression I fully support the IRA now.
youtube.com/watch?v=N7v19ZKIpuU

I kinda see your point, but I don't know enough about the subject to debate it. God bless, as they say in Ireland.

youtube.com/watch?v=UOUeauLWEaE

the only thing IRA did wrong was not offing Tatcher

Official IRA/INLA are based, the Provisionals were not.

then why are you even trying to talk about this? Every time with the Brits who think they're experts, fuck off

they also promised us years ago they would start killing bankers, shameful I say

FFS you don't need to go over the edge completely when you see the rose, recognize tankies posting bad liberal bait.
The RA defended their communities when the fucking tories couldnt handle the ethnic cleansing started by that cunt Paisley.
The provos on the other hand are a bunch of mafia larping thugs. The civil war was a monumental tragedy that got off because DeValera was a scheming snake lusting for power to the retarded extent that he later refused a united Ireland out of fucking pride.
Read Connolly and Big Fella fucks sake.

My great grandad was there for 1916.

tiocfiadh ar la be proud