Trotskyism vs DSA

I know that Trots are made fun of on here for their extreme beliefs, but I recently read a very good take down of DSA as an organization.
As someone new to leftism, can someone tell me why they're wrong? I met this particular organization at the DSA convention. I spoke to their members and they were logical and clear, DSA is reformists.
I will continue to be active within DSA but this article has made realize that it may not be the best organization to belong to.

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Trots are always wrong. I refuse to read that article.
Stay in DSA and be useful.

fuck off trot

They're not wrong, the DSA is obviously reformist. That doesn't mean you should join some literally who trot group, though.

Leave DSA alone. Any attack on DSA is an attack on the left.

they said nothing of value. Just cult level insults. Typical trot rag.

Still butthurt about the cop?

The problem people have with Trotskyism is more so that alot of the Orthodox organisations are really sectarian and annoying (spartacists are the worst)

Also in my experience marxist-leninists tend to buy into the old propaganda and react badly to criticism from leninists to their left.

fuck all these DSA threads. We have three already on the convention and the Fetonte situation. We don't need a fourth.

Also if this sways you in any way you are a fucking idiot. It's literally a trot micro sect. Probably like under 50 people in it.

the dsa is bad for wanting to reform the democratic party

i didn't read your article because lol trots but if it said that it's right

I felt that the Internationalists described DSA slightly exaggerated but overall correct.

Anglo trot here, i've seen a lot of threads about the DSA and trots recently and i don't really know what the fuss is about. As far as i know burger trot groups are cancer but if anyone could give me a summary of what the deal is with the DSA recently i'd be grateful.

DSA has grown in popularity and burger Trots are pointing out that DSA are just reformers and are brainwashing Bernie Bros into furthering the neoliberal Democratic party .

So the DSA are openly pro-democrat?

They are currently supporting Democrats running in local office. Most of their membership voted for Hillary Clinton, when Sanders lost.

Are they supporting their own members running as democrats like coop party members running for labour in the UK or just throwing their support behind democrats?

I think they're mostly supporting Democrats, some Democrats joined DSA in order to get their endorsement in very local elections.

holy shit fuck off

DSA has no way of punishing elected Democrat party representatives who betray socialist ideas. They can't even get rid of a cop-organizer who infiltrated their NPC.

NYC SAlt here.
The internationalists are almost as … unusual as the Sparticists. They're an offshoot of the sparts and thus carry on a lot of the bad old dogmas.

If they start accepting corporate funding then it's gg.

I've read what they published about DSA and so far it seems like pretty standard orthodox Trotskyism.

We have even more leftcom threads unfortunately

OP, most of the criticism in that article is true. DSA is shit. However, Trots are also shit, as they have a retarded victim complex about Stalin.

Don't become a whiny Trot, become a tankie.

The problem people have with Trotskyists is that most of them habitually and compulsively align their propaganda with imperialist propaganda. They slander anyone who resists NATO, from the USSR to Syria and Venezuela.

There have been a few Trots who overcame their victim complex (such as Marcy), but they basically quit being Trots soon after that.

DSA has no accountability mechanisms.

There is article is 100% correct.

More substanceless, bullshit Green bashing by useless sectarian trots.


Removed the Revisionist parts.

The fact that they speak in "orthodox trot" is exactly the problem. If your analysis hasn't changed in 50 years, perhaps your theory is out of date.


Orthodox trots are the only tolerable trots. The rest are unabashed liberals.

A more hypocritical, vacuous term does not exist among the sectarian left. Don't like someone? Call them an opportunist. It's the insult that sticks to anyone!

Is the person who calls for criticism at an opportune time when people are willing to listen to not being an opportunist? Were the Bolsheviks not opportunists seizing the state at a time of historic weakness?

Everything is about opportunity. Political maneuvering is about seizing opportunities when they arise. Groups that refuse to pay attention to opportunities only commit themselves to irrelevance.

The DSA is small enough that entryism will make a difference and large enough that it's not a useless organization.


they won't. they will never. they don't support any candidates who do. It's apart of their litmus test. they have to

1) be an open socialist
2) be running to win
3) not take donations from corporations/PACS/developers etc…

plz stop its embarrassing

the DSA are literally succdems though. even if they mean different things the voters of that party will remain the same.
referring to number 2.


fair assessment, tbh


thats not what a fucking opportunist is
an opportunist is someone who changes their opinions and beliefs on a whim to get more popularity and support amongst the people
their a socialist in the morning a social-democrat at noon and a liberal at bed time so to speak

and thats exactly what a lot of these groups like DSA are….
liberals posing as social-democrats posing as socialist

It isn’t for the DSA. I modified it for Holla Forums propaganda. Just look at the bottom of the image.

Holla Forums isn't the best place to find info tbh. Even just linking to a marx pdf would be better

Agreed, DSA are liberal Bernie broing cop enablers.


Dismissing Bernie or the DSA are opportunists or counter-revolutionary is so fucking retarded. What opportunity are they co-opting? They're not stealing potential members of trot organizations, they're providing an alternative to complete apathy.

at this point succ-Demism might as well be counter-rev they have proven it multiple times

DSA is literely stealing potential members for real socialist organizations and instead directing them to continue to serve the DNC.

agreed, only to the extent where we can say the same shit about MLs and trots

They're not stealing members from you, go distribute more newspapers and see for yourself

well despite the some of the disagreement i have with marx-lens thei still much better then Succ-Dems cuz at least Marx-Lens dont attempt to negotiate with porky
and thats all that Succ-Dems do negotiate negotiate negotiate

t. cop

This whole thing in cville proves that DSA are just opportunists. They are going to shill DSA hard just because a couple of bernie bros got ran over.
This doesn't change the fact that DSA is a Democratic Part front.

This. If you're in the DSA just try to get your local chapter to do Marx reading groups. There's already a significant amount of Marxists iirc, so you should do everything you can to get everyone to become hardline Marxists. Praxis-wise if you're actually going to protests don't try to use it to recruit or LARP, but generally try to obstruct police or reactionary activity and support the actions of other orgs

trots are fucking retarded, actually sick of them

Can't take some criticism, succdem?

You fucking don't know what you're talking about.

Half the people in DSA are anarchists and communists that organize with the DSA because it's the biggest game in town. And it's the biggest game in town, in part, because it refused to serve as anything but as a form of organization

Holy shit you couldn't be more fucking wrong

They are all probably cops, considering these "communists and anarchists" were totally fine with electing Danny Fetonte into power.
If half the membership was already radicalized before joining last November, they would know how to perform a simple google search.

but the anarchists/communist never influence the group at all….
its just a con to be tricked to voting succ-dem

leftists are fucking insufferable
take power you fucking shitbags and stop looking for the perfect organization cause you'll never find it
it's like a guy waiting for monica bellucci to knock on his door and fuck him senseless while a big titted big assed pretty girl from the neighbouring apartment is pining for him

Revolution is not going to spring fully formed from the efforts of some tiny, irrelevant Trot party. The DSA also can't achieve revolutionary goals, but is useful as a means of leftist organization and theory education/class consciousness raising. They're basically like the Russian narodniks, reformists who slowly become radicalized after years of being rebuffed and eventually spawning the Bolsheviks.

DSA could be critical in achieving revolution in the USA, but ONLY if they focus on local organization and dual power structures and ignore their leadership's inane ideas about electoral politics and deposing the Dems.

I can't parse your statement. Are you saying that DSA's leadership endorses the Dems or that DSA's leadership endorses deposing the Dems?

Should DSA completly abandon supporting Democrats at the local level?
The main problem I see is that DSA is still a marginal group. It being the largest leftist organization speaks negatively for the US. Even if DSA had 4x the members, 100k, they would still be too small to form a party, imho.