The Google Memo: Four Scientists Respond / Liberal dogma

I made this thread because I wanted to discuss the contents of this article.

archive.is/VlNfl
In this article scientists fights against the false narrative that has been pushed by media figures and rabid screeching idpol liberals about the legitimacy of the positions that the recently fired google employee made in the internally distributed memo. This piece especially touches on the subject of sex differences between men and women, which many idpol liberals have more of an ideological and not a scientific view on.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=ae4JmMbu9oo

why do we need another fucking thread for this shit?

I have quite frankly been mystified of the hold that IDpol liberal ideology has on the minds of many fellow socialists and self proclaimed socialists.

This is rather concerning because it is appears to be turning those who consider themselves to be opponents to capitalism into foot soldiers for many IDpol friendly corporations such as silicon valley tech giants like google against workers who hold less PC views. What many can’t even see is how discrimination against people for wrong think will be turned against us socialists in the future as many of the bay area tech companies are filled to the brim with hardcore capitalists who despise any kind of real socialist measures (AKA anything to the left of the very moderate socdem ideas promoted by Sanders).

It has been greatly amusing that the rabid IDpol focused lynch mob against the google employee who wrote a document that suggested nothing but extremely moderate positions on the gender gap and the oppressively authoritarian work atmosphere at google. I very much encourage people to read what he actually wrote in his memo instead of relying on the impotent directionless and rage filled articles that are written by liberal journalists who have put forth a flurry of sensationalized pieces.
The guy who is the target of the witch hunt did not write that women were “inferior” or anything an alt-right or even a “radical-centrist” would suggest, these liberal journalists only seek to misrepresent him or slander him as what little he did write was considered heretical to their dogmatic echo-chamber. Many people completely disregard that he himself suggested his own ideas to fix the gender gap.

Another unfortunate thing I would like to touch on is how “gultural marxism” has unfortunately become synonymous with horrible IDpol to a large portion of the masses, and as such some people like the employee who wrote the memo did use that term to mean liberal idpol nonsense. This is not really enough to attribute this person to the “alt-right” or reactionaries or what have you since it has sadly become vastly wide spread in society, this term being present does not delegitimize the whole memo. It is more befitting of anti-intellectual reactionaries and dogmatic IDpol liberals to ignore/disregard every idea someone puts forth due to merely one of them being wrong or mistaken instead of us socialists.

the idpol subversion was probably porky's most ingenious plan

This may be the first event of its kind, as I've never felt like a single thing with cultural marxism thrown in was worth reading and have never been convinced of anyone using it having any intelligence.

Its sad people seem to be forgetting or are just so young and have not talked to enough people to know how negative of a view the average person has about socialism/communism, including liberals it's not just a “conservative” thing.

Like how lots of them think socialism is just “make everyone the same” for instance, there are many who also believe in the GORJILLIONS meme, and if you haven’t noticed that liberals like Joy Reid have been shilling that russia is still communist and are trying to invade and subvert America or marching the streets with anti-communist signs protesting Trump then you have been living under a rock. Anything some youtuber or whoever the fuck says is nothing new and has been regurgitated for over 50 years.

So ignoring someone just because they have a dumb belief about socialism would make you end up ignoring basically everyone. People are drones and easily eat up propaganda, and it's our job to correct it, I know it's annoying to do but who else is going to do it?

This has to be the result of some kind of propaganda campaign. I believe it was first used by some reactionary in the late 90s but then it explodes in the last few years out if nowhere. I've even seen popular guys like Rogan fully buy into this conspiracy theory and feed it to theur audience.

The guy's argument was a justification of capitalist subjugation of women but with large words so morons like you and other former/current liberals wouldn't be able to identify it.

Also he went straight to Molymeme after he got fired so it is clear that he is more than just a "centrist." He is likely fascist.

It would be hilarious to me if all of these retarded libs who don't know the difference between modern Russia and the USSR are getting some edgy Trump supporter kek fucks to look into Lenin and become leftists.

This is an American problem, the reason it comes across that way on this board is because Euros are nowhere near as autistic and dumb as Americans.

The American political system is very insular and has been alienated from continental philosophy; unfortunately, most US citizens are clueless.

Welcome, press the number at the end of the first line of the post to quote and try not to space things out so much. I agree with you that he's probably a fascist, he ran to Molyfoo and used the massive red flag "cultural marxism" in his "manifesto" - which to me signals that he was wording the document to be digested by google employees. Adding in cultural marxism screams to me of another case of Holla Forums being too autistic to keep their trolling/rants in character and attempting le ebin redbull some of the readers.

Can't pretend that Europeans are doing much better.

We're doing far better than you, you've been written off as "hopefully nuked soon".

Is this really just an adult male whining about women being near him in the workplace? What a loser.

That's true

People do know it exists outside the dumb McCarthy maymay propaganda definition of the term right? Its all about how its defined more than anything, on the Left most of the its defined as "bastardized marxism"

'Decent book btw'

Nah, the guy is a woke feminist.

...

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Who fucking cares? This is the liberal "we need to have a conversation about…" No. The only talking they ought to do is with the Corrective Labor Office as they squeal on their co-conspirators while begging for a blanket to make it through the winter.

I have legitimately never seen it used properly outside of people here correcting the retards that wander in. If you find yourself reading a lot of stupid shit on the internet, simply scanning for "cultural marxism" before you read a wall of text and not reading it if you spot it will reduce the idiocy by over half. Don't forget to close every youtube video when you hear it either. I sometimes read and watch people that use it just in case, but I've never finished reading any of these rants and felt like the rule to ignore them all is too harsh or unwarranted. It's the ideal retard filter.

there are feminists who genuinely believe that though

Macron is an entertaining tyrant in a classic, Napoleon III way. Burgers have a confused old celebrity who doesn't seem to want his job.

Yeah, this is my favorite European hypocrisy. >Haha, Americans don't even have a left wing!

I don't get why this Google thing blew up. It's not like the guy was famous or something.

In a normal situation, someone would come forward about his dumb manifesto to HR or some shit, there'd be an investigation and he'd probably get let go. Why is it because it was at Google that it's a big deal? People get fired for stirring shit and starting workplace drama all the time. Is it going to make national headlines next time the cashier at Target called someone a faggot?

We've got Corbyn and Melenchon coming up. Have fun with Her.

SJWs like to imagine their movement is a resistance rather than a 9 to 1 tyranny of the majority

Name them

I'd be thrilled if Corbyn or Melenchon succeed, people who work for Corbyn and Melenchon were just here in the US meeting with American socialists.

But congrats on being slightly ahead in your imagined geographical rivalry?

Tyranny of the majority is not a tyranny at all liberal.

youtube.com/watch?v=ae4JmMbu9oo
I know this is anecdotal, but you can't say they are nonexistent.

They're not the ones profiting. It's the SJW's who are profiting from the corporations, it's not capital that is dominant but superego and spectacle.


That's only because the term cultural marxism seems to be most effective term to induce a superego induced mental shutdown in a leftist. Why exactly, I don't know, what I am sure of is that violates the leftist language game (leftists are notorious word thinkers) and that it has something to do with that.

Marxists like everything about cultural marxism -gender hysteria, pc newspeak, oppression/oppressed dichtonomies as constitutive- except the word itself.

I'm European. Do note how both lost and that's just 2 countries out of like 50. Meanwhile, we have "leftist" banker Macron in power in France and pathetic liberals like Schulz in Germany or Klaver in Holland pretending to be the "left" opposition.

Capital has been subjugated and tamed by the power of idealism, guys! Materialism was wrong all along.

It's more Americans talking like the whole world is fucked when they're actually talking about America than a geographical rivalry.

Yes yes, your opinions are very contrarian and make everyone very mad. Epic win.

The only people that believe Macron is a leftist are Americans, who get their filth everywhere and regularly lie about being European. Melenchon stood a chance of winning if it wasn't for PS, and Corbyn got the most desirable outcome possible.

The only woman that speaks in that video is moderator you idiot.

Where did you gather this from what he wrote?
Are you sure dogmatic liberal idpol is not causing you to project ideas onto him which he never intended to put forward?

Judging from the extreme life ruining counter reaction and ostracisation he faced it is little wonder that he ran into the arms of filth like that. His acceptance of the gender gap, rejection of far right ideas and him putting forward another solution for the gender gap is all very unlike what a fascist would suggest.

Please stop bastardizing terms like idealist and materialist into marxian and unmarxian, it not only makes you look stupid, but actually makes you more stupid by limiting your frame of reference.

If you can explain to me how an SJW department is actually profitable, please do so.

I don't think it is simply blind anger that makes you unable to explain without begging the question why cultural marxism is the biggest trigger word for Holla Forums.

this is simply false

It isn't, reddit, it's the sign of a pretentious idiot.

timestamp it bitch

because it's fucking annoying to be blamed for abortion and gay sex every time I talk to a rightist

1:20

Stop being autistic and responding to people who say it, they're near universally thick as pig shit.

There's only one sentence in his memo that needs read:
"I am a classical liberal"
He deserves to be burned at the stake.

Yeah, that's the moderator.

You think women are incapable of being mechanics?

1:36 then

The sign, yes, and you're all about signs.


Because as we all know marxists are completely opposed to abortion and gay sex and any culture they promote would be bereft of those things.

Marxists proudly state that they supported cultural marxism before the liberals did and then run around to call it regular liberalism when confronted with their own source of pride.

THIS
Also having worked in IT for 13 years I'm surprised this memo is getting so much attention. His beliefs are pretty widely held, and have been for at least as long as I've been working.
Google and the rest have been aware of it too.

lurk more and you'll realize what you're saying is complete strawman

Christ you're a faggot, it's impressive that you sound like one of the most pretentious people to ever post here. Go listen to Professor Kermit cry a little more and tidy your room.

Marx was a racist and a homophobe, therefor the real marxism is too, making the n.ational socialists the real socialists and the so-called "cultural marxists" just liberals and probably bourgeois as well for going against saint marx.

Am I doing it right or am I still missing something in the cultural marxism puzzle?

So they slandered him because of this? These people are just as bad as christian conservatives.


If the whole Laci Green thought us anything about these people, its that no matter how woke or liberal you are, if you ever upset them, you are now a fascist.

Literally 2 seconds of response from two nobodies, who don't actually say that men and women are biologically identical = feminists think men and women are literally the same?

it's just fucking irrelevant. the things you like to complain about and label "cultural marxism" exist independent of a marxist or a capitalist society

Posting with a bitchy attitude (stupid this, idiots that..) and then crying pretentious when someone calls your bluff. Yes, you really are all about signs.

So much for making leftypol have a superego induced meltdown.

Trying too hard Holla Forums

So do trees, this doesn't prevent us from describing enviromentalism as an ideology. Then why apply a different line of logic when it comes to the validity of the term cultural marxism?

thank you for this logic, I never saw it this way

Stop shitposting.

You hold the notion that something cannot be ideological, if the object of the ideology exists independently of ideology. My example demonstrated the absurdity of this.

you demonstrated nothing but your own stupidity

The only thing you've demonstrated is you're a tiny bit mad I rightly called you out for coming on leftypol full of euphoria after watching a Jordan Peterson video.

-An Evolutionary Psychologist 2017

Social """sciences"""

Please demonstrate your intelligence by debunking the term cultural marxism without begging the question using the bible-is-true-source-the-bible style arguments. (example: it's not marxism because I say it isn't marxism and i'm correct because as a marxist I am the authority on marxism)

Not mad, annoyed. There used to be people here whom you could have a philosophical discussion with, now there's only True Believers who like all zealots are incapable of meta-analysis.

Do you want me to prove god isn't real while I'm at it? It's your job to prove it's real.

SJW's are an example of cultural marxism, SJW's exist, therefor cultural marxism is real.

but why

Rapists are an example of social Petersonism. Rapists exist, therefore social Personism is real.

Go to the source material and find evidence to support your claim.

I also find the Laci Green shit to be quite amusing, It was frankly something else to see them all attack her like ravenous wolves with smear pieces and falsehoods in order to try and paint her as a fascist.
Dogmatic liberal idpol is surely a cancer to the mind and results in bizarre incidents beyond the matching of any group with perhaps the exception of the religious right. These ridiculous incidents are also fine material for propaganda to feed the more tech literate segments of the right. It is primarily due to these retarded IDpol liberals especially the ones who consider themselves as communists that the whole retarded term of "gultural marxism" has been so successfully shilled to the masses.

Your autistic shitposting doesn't mean anything kid, its obvious you have nothing to say but bring up boogeymans and strawman.

What a sad sight this board become recently.

I've often asked that question myself, the easy answer is resentment. There are few things marxists write such poisonous invective about as the pure, the clean, the beautiful, the straight, the sane… all the while romanticizing downtrodden misery (which they claim to despise). They're obsessed with "uncovering" all that is good and pure as being somehow evil, or as they like to call it "oppressive". Unsurprisingly, marxists are often ugly and wretched themselves, not those who just wave red flags though, I mean the people who are truly into it, who make careers out of uncovering how society is one gigantic BDSM torture chamber meticulously designed to stamp their vagina's into a pulp. These people are obsessive neurotics; life-denying, spiteful and vile.. they're the elliot rodgers of the intellectual world, google the names laurie penny and sam kriss to understand what i'm hinting at.


If Petersonists formed rape gangs, and were the source and ideological base of rape culture, you'd have a point.

Holla Forums on greed:
Holla Forums on women:

Why is Holla Forums so pathetic?

How can a corporation be bad if they are pro-diversity, pro-lgbt?

Worker's rights, unions? Are you some kind of racist?

This is what I noticed too. Leftists get butthurt as fuck when they see "cultural marxism" , but if they would pay attention, they would see that there's a lot of "capitalism" in "cultural marxism".

it's because a "rational" "classical liberal" (I shit you not, he says he's a CL in his memo) got shitcanned and these "fuck your feelings" people are the biggest pussies of all.

how come the "rational" overman didn't understand that a memo like this could these days be a PR disaster for google that could get him fired? doesn't sound like a rational thing to do to me. or did he fall for the corporate "do no evil" "we're a family" bullshit? that doesn't sound rational either.

So Marx formed SJW gangs?

You just described rightists, not leftists

It's distraction

There must have been some brilliant philosophical discussion you had here before.

thanks for sharing

Marxism is capitalism to begin with, for it is marxists who hold that marxism is correct because economic interests are the sole cause of history, that all else is irrelevant (muh superstructure, muh idpol). Their only problem with capitalism then is that it doesn't take its own logic far enough, that it is not complete, that the whole world is not yet a unity forged in an overriding profit/pleasure motive.

or maybe cultural marxism makes sense to normal people too and you can't see that because you are a butthurt leftist that when he sees someone use that term he will glorious uprising like a feminist

Or maybe you've managed to lie and misrepresent a lot.

this is some epic rationale™

keep posting the same thing over and over again, it doesn't make you sound any less upset.

If I oppose hitler for not killing enough jews, does that make an anti-fascist?

pre-obama he and his manifesto would be considered far-left

...

Can you quote the literature you got that from?

barf


Yeah it's definitely not like these guys interviewed 30 or so social scientists and then cherrypicked the 3 or 4 that kinda agreed with them on some points. I'm sure these stalwart defenders of true journalism wouldn't do that.
Fuck off.

“According to the materialist conception of history, the ultimately determining element in history is the production and reproduction of real life. More than this neither Marx nor I have ever asserted. Hence if somebody twists this into saying that the economic element is the only determining one, he transforms that proposition into a meaningless, abstract, senseless phrase. The economic situation is the basis, but the various elements of the superstructure also exercise their influence on the course of the historical struggle, and in many cases preponderate in determining their form.” Engels

The way you use cultural Marxism is as relevant as me calling mandatory breeding with Jews cultural Hitlerism.

ah, we have a political historian here
thank you for illuminating the issue with your usual brilliance

That brilliant insight from Engels does not undo the death of the author.

He opposes it because it doesn't go far enough in making human existence an instance of game theory.

nazi-kun isn't really wrong about "cultural marxism" making sense to normal people and I still don't really get why this board gets so assblasted about it. Preponderance of precocious sheltered college kids, if I had to guess. From a colloquial western understanding of "marxism", the idea of "cultural marxism" as "an oppressed/oppressor dynamic being applied to everything in the culture even in cases where that is inappropriate" usually in context with the idea that this is a deliberate attempt to cause division in society in order to make money/gain status which, as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) is basically what the term means for people who use it, is reasonably coherent.
Sure, it doesn't actually have anything to do with Marxism as marxists and other people interested in left-wing politics would understand it, but that isn't really the point. If anything, that is a failure of Marxists to properly explain ourselves in a way people can understand - or, worse, that there are a bunch of people out there right now calling themselves leftists, Marxists, socialists and communists who actually really do act and speak in ways that play perfectly into the right's cultural marxism narrative.
it's like we're not even really prepared to entertain the idea that there is a good reason such a stupid idea has the legs that it has, not because the criticism it entails is invalid but simply because it comes from people we don't like and gives us an opportunity to squirm out of it by playing semantic games.

the reason it has the legs it has is propaganda backed by moneybags

This so, so very fucking much. The humanities are just stuffed with pseudoscience on so many different issues it's unreal. There needs to be a movement to stand up to academia's bullshit.

Angela Davis shilled for Clinton.

this was fun all around
mr."im a SENSIBLE LIBERAL look how edge i am" got fired
stupid IDpol liberals got pissed and shit on by reactionaries
and reactionaries make more "muh stupid libtard" content to be laughed at

fun all around

Read before you post.

The social justice movement has been reinforced by the economic power to destroy the left. The only way to win is to fight these people ourselves

essentially this
if u attempt to educate people on hard-leftism these days its immediate shut down with
"just shut up muh feminist transgender snowflake libtard i SEE what u people do on campuses"

when in reality these people are at best just delusional liberals who somehow believe that somehow socialism equals feminism/transgender-ism and social-democratic welfare state
in the absolute worst cases such as a large amount of ANTIFA groups these groups serve as honeypots to essentially trick young leftists into breaking car windows to fuck the lefts iage

the communist party in Portugal has 19 elected member on the parliament out of 236.
Meanwhile in USA the communist party supports Hillary and can't even go on tv because muh communism
So yeah..shut the fuck up, you don't know what you're talking about and THERE IS NO LEFT WING IN USA

oh wow nineteen seats? out of a Parliament of two hundred and thirt six?
so completely insignificant?

And your post is why Holla Forums has an arrogance problem. Stop pretending your home countries shit doesn't stink. Or do you buy into your governments deflection meme that "oh at least you dont have it as bad as those AMERICANS"?
Why are you turning your back on proletariat​ foreign to you? Are you even Left?

Nice log in your eye. Americans are the ones with an arrogance problem, talking about America as if it's the entire planet non-stop and constantly shitting on anything Euros are doing to make their situation more bearable.

Reminds me of the French Revolution topkek

...

While I doubt any of them have thought it through, I think this is actually really useful. The red team (which nobody at Google seems to have noticed has all the political power right now) is going to react to this by creating all sorts of protections for themselves in the workplace. That'll protect us from the same sort of attacks that gutted US leftism in the 50s next time.

kek

No thanks.

If only internet

[citation needed]

True, and anyone who characterizes him as suggesting women were inferior is definitely wrong about what he wrote.


Whether it is more befitting or not isn't relevant, but I would say that there are valid criticisms of most of what he said in the memo, and the memo itself is internally inconsistent, or at least doesn't address and clarify its own presuppositions such that certain aspects of it seem to be hiding an ideology. This may or may not have been intentional. I'd argue that it is to the benefit of leftists to point out their own critiques of the memo and what it is describing instead of just taking it at its word and agreeing or disagreeing with it. To do the latter is to fall into the trap of the author's ideology. For instance…

First of all, the core argument of the memo is that Google's hiring practices should serve to optimize and benefit Google as a company, and attempting to increase diversity does not serve that goal. A leftist could immediately take fault with this. The author never clarified what he meant by optimizing or benefiting Google, so we can assume that he means Google's success on the market as a profitable corporation. This is tantamount to saying that every employee should be subordinate to Google's needs to make profit. There is further evidence this may be the case when, in his "non-discriminatory ways to reduce the gender gap" he states that we could make leadership roles less stressful, but then basically retracts this by saying if we did so it could hurt the company. So it may follow that to further optimize the company, any consideration of stress over raw performance could hurt the company. His suggestions also include "de-emphasizing empathy", for the sake of rationally assessing the facts of what is best for Google. But there is ideology in this. To disregard the emotional states of your employees in your decision making process is an explicit endorsement of dehumanizing your decisions. Your decisions will not be based on the mental or physical well-being of your employees, insofar as their mental well-being relates to the performance of Google.

Towards the end after his suggestions he also states, in a sort of final declaratory sentence of intent, that he would like to create policies which emphasize individuals rather than groups. But again, this is filled with unexplored presuppositions. He would like to emphasize "individuality" as it serves Google's profits. "Individuality" isn't in a vacuum here, since he made clear before in his first claim that diversity is a problem for Google's performance.

Which is all to say that we shouldn't embrace this person, nor should we condemn him on the grounds that liberals do. We need to make our own analysis clear. This could be done far more than anything I wrote here. For instance, where does the drive to corporate diversity come from? Why do women want to be programmers if they aren't good at it? Why do women want to be leaders if the stress is too much for them?

One thing that's really fucking annoying about a lot of users here is that they immediately drop any pretense of consistency or being principled whenever it comes to an Other being targeted. Most people ITT probably support what the memo guy said about diversity fetishism and quotas and liberal cultish groupthink, but will gladly support him being fucked over by fucking Google solely because he has faggoty political beliefs or said other stupid things. Anyone who's glad or indifferent when a worker is fucked over, exploited, or oppressed by the bourgeoisie is a shitty Socialist, regardless of that worker being a faggot.

It's like this image. Refusing solidarity with all of the working class because some of them hold beliefs or said things that put them in the Other category is shitty sectarianism. It's also incredibly stupid to be glad or indifferent when a worker is targeted for his non-conforming beliefs when you're a fucking Socialist. It shows either incredibly shortsighted petty schadenfreude or just simply being an unprincipled twat who doesn't realize what that leads to.

Google guy broke solidarity with his fellow workers. He is a class cuck and will not be spared during the revolution.

How, because he worked for Google?