Trotskyism

What is Trotskyism?

What are it's core tenants?

What is the differance between Marxist-Leninism and Trotskyism?

Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-6/red-flag.pdf
clogic.eserver.org/2009/Furr.pdf
marxists.org/history/etol/revhist/backiss/vol7/no4/dumain.html
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1939/03/capitulation.htm

Newspapers and splitting parties and movements.

it depends, there are many people who call themselves trotskyists.

for instances there are 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧trotstkyists🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 who are not more than socdem retards who praise tortsky only because is the spiritual opposite of stalin, and also support first worldism (syrian opposition, israel, for example).

now there are the true trotskyists, who support the theory of permanent revolution.
this mean they are third worldists (ironically the total opposite of what modern """trotskyists""" stands for) and believe a proletarian revolution can happen at the exact same time of a bourg-liberal democratic revolution, so you aren't supposed to wait 100 years to see a dictatorship of the proletariat in britain, when you can take advantage of current liberal-democratic revolutions happening in russia, china, etc.

it's indistinguishable from marxism leninism, but MLs tend to distort and censore permanent revolution theory because of cultism.

sectarianism.
that's all it seeks to accomplish.
you could like or hate Stalin as you please, but Trotsky was nothing more than the ultimate contrarian.

It's almost impressive how spectacularly wrong you describe both Trotskyism and Marxism-Leninism.

But, of course, Leftcoms being well read is a meme.

That's literally Stalin.

This is the guy who was fanatically opposed to agricultural collectivization and then immediately and equally fanatically supported it once his political enemies were no longer a threat.

They are basically Stalinists in denial. If they aren't then they are just being liberals. Trotsky himself would probably be opposed to 99% of trot groups for this reason alone.

what

I mean, both groups support the October Revolution, but after that they sort of went their separate ways.

trotskyists and mls both stand for:
although trotskyists yell about being anti-boureucrats, while supporting five year plans ._.
this is innegable.

besides boureocratism and third worldism, there are little more to add to the description of MLism.

Trotsky believed in eternal revolution—every 20 years the next generation should rebel against the "old guard."

Marxism-Leninism espoused that nothing less than state power could bring about communism.

Both believed in "putting your bodies on the wheels" because they had a perverse obsession with physical bodies and martyrdom because status signalling combined with atheistic materialism.

How does everyone feel about Alan Woods? I don't know enough theory to affirm or deny him but his voice is really fucking comfy I could listen to him for hours tbh.

Centralization != planning

And Trotskyists don't believe in Third Worldism, where the fuck are you getting that idea. We're actually pretty explicit that socialism can't be built without the advanced capitalist countries; the revolution might happen first in the third world, but it can only finish in the advanced first world.

We should also mention that these things wouldn't have been an issue had Rosa Luxemburg succeeded in Germany. The Bolsheviks only really were divided now that the civil war is over and the proles are exhausted from war and famine and mass action, the choices were either Trotsky (assume Rosa will succeed any other western Marxists to rise up), or Stalin (bureaucratic terror)

Fuck, I meant to say centralization != bureaucracy

Sorry, tired

let's end this thread before it begins

Would Rot-a-tot-Trots support a democratic planning by email or something cool like that?

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oh wow, it's fucking nothing


Sure, whatever

look again. Goebbels is in that picture too.

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THIS. Every trot group ever is either closet Stalinist (SEP, Sparts, Marcyites) or closet socdems (Salt, ISO, Cliffites).

haha what

this is exactly what maoists third worldists stand for

No, they believe in building socialism in the third world and spreading it to the first world.

That's not what I was saying. Socialism can't be built on a national basis and certainly not in backward third world countries. The revolution itself has to spread, and it generally has to spread quite quickly.

what he said

it's like how the liberal+republican revolution started in colonial states, and eventually made its way to europe.
that's how third worldists see marxism.

we are fucked, these trotshits are cultists to the bone, and will argue anything to deny they are indistinguishable from MLMs

Please READ Trotsky.

You'll immediately see that he has virtually nothing in common with MLMs, to the point where the latter often call him racist for supposedly denying the revolutionary potential of the third world.

i have.
ML-trotskyite rivality is pretty much of the same nature as the one between hoxhaists and maoists, this mean pure propaganda and opportunistic monopoly of ideas.

Trotsky denied both the idea of a peasant-led proletariat revolution AND all the elements of protracted people's war.

That alone completely separates him theoretically from Maoists.

maotists also denied the idea of a peasant-led proletarian revolution, he considered the peasantry the motor of the revolution while the proletarians where the directive force of the party.

Where'd the whole Fascist Trotsky thing come from?

Trotsky collaborated with fascists/liberals in order to sabotage the USSR.

Is there any hard evidence for this?

Gold standard and starting wars everywhere.

no

Backstabbers, liars and just edgy succ-dems.

Socialist Alternative is full of them.

Leninism through Trotsky.

Emphasis on Marx's theory of the necessitity for revolution to be permanent; to nevern cease to attack the foundations of capital, and for it to always try to grow the workers' movement internationally as that is the only way for communism to truly vanquish the old capitalist society. Trotskyism also comes with a more or less tendency-wide characterization of what the USSR was and became, which is the notion that it was a deformed workers' state, in which state capitalism never went away. Trotskyists that don't tow this line like CLR James or the Johnson-Forest tendency generally become characterized as post-Trotskyists or not actual Trotskyists because they have more different views.

ML is Leninism through the developments made in the right turn in the Comintern, and may roughly be sketched as Leninism through Stalin. ML believes itself to be the real, unquestionable coalescing of Marxism and Leninism combined, seeing is as a schematically scientific thing. It also differs in that the ML position also innately comes with a characterization of the USSR that insists that post-NEP and until Stalin's death, the USSR was a socialist society.

Trotskyism today mostly develops from the Cliffite tendency in England, focusing heavily on entryist political strategy; a strong belief in possibilism with its various internationally allied Trotskyist parties (even though they split all the time on semantic dogma) and a Leninist view of the proletariat needing outside infleunce, but taken to the point where it is viewed that workers are almost incapable of themselves even starting revolutionary activity (in Lenin this is possible, but real activity in organization beyond that is what mostly needs representation). A very news and propaganda-centered type of activism is thus central to Trotskyism as well.

For shame, niggas.


This post is just terrible. Trotskyites are TWists holy shit. If anything Trotskyists insist on stating that Russia degraded because it wasn't modernized enough, and degenerated because the workers' state project failed because of the influence of feudal communal living and the needs of emancipating peasants instead of organizing revolution onward.

BTW I think one of the best texts to show how Trotskyists versus ML stand on the USSR question is PDF related. If you're interested, it also includes the left communist perspective. Most of the developments have historically sprung forth out of this question, but then actually started to differentiate themselves further in other ways (also talked about in the text BTW!).

Pure bullshit all what you said.

Better this: marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-6/red-flag.pdf

Of course: clogic.eserver.org/2009/Furr.pdf

Get >>>/out/.

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You have not put any argument about what you said. I add: it is impossible that you can do it without realizing that you are lying.

If I do not argument it is because there is no need.

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Stop formating your posts like a fucking faggot if you don't want people to ignore your posts and tell you to stop.

To be honest, that post is better than yours. There were long discussions around where to start the revolution after WW2 in Trotskiyst internationals and, surprise, they were talking like TWists.

Also:


Just one question:

1. Could you prove that Trotskiysm is Leninism through Trotskiy? (My answer is no, its foundations are Anti-leninism)

Two simple questions:

1. Can you prove that Lenin and Stalin were against it? (My answer is no)
2. Can you prove that there is something related to Trotskiyst permanent revolution in Marx, Engels and Lenin? (My answer is no, since what Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin said is different from Trotskiy's thesis)

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Haha.

Yeah.

Agreed.

DAE szechuan atheism? Le brick and mortar. xd

As a French guy, I agree.

Of course not, it's obvious Stalinist propaganda.

Trotsky was a faggot who supported Esperanto only to piss off Stalin.

marxists.org/history/etol/revhist/backiss/vol7/no4/dumain.html

you


are retarded

I think the core tenants are a pickaxe to the head.

I think thats the main difference between Marxist leninist and Trotskyist

1. Do you know that the struggle against Trotskiysm isn't because of "Stalin propaganda" but the whole existence of the USSR?
2. Are you aware that throughout the whole existence of the USSR Trotskiy was never rehabilitated?
3. Do you know that even in 1986 from the USSR books were published exclusively against Trotskiy and Trotskiyism?
4. Do you know that also in those Soviet books from 1986 where stating that Trotskiysts were against Communist Parties, USSR and the thesis of the communist parties that raised the need to establish a difference between fascist, capitalist and communist regimes?
5. Do you know that Trotsky has already advanced the thesis that Arendt later took over the twin brothers?

>marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1939/03/capitulation.htm
6. Did you know that the Trotskyists posed the capitulation of the socialist camp to the Nazi invasion? What the communist parties of that time called the Trotskyist's theoretical defeatism led to political defeatism. In fact, translating this into practical and political terms means, in fact, supporting fascism.

To believe that the question of Trotskyism is reduced to "Stalin's paranoia" or a "propaganda persecution" means not knowing anything.