I've noticed recently that to justify support of reformism and reformist organizations such as the DSA, many on Holla Forums have pointed to the Overton Window. "We agree that social democracy can't fundamentally change anything," it is argued, "but because of neoliberal domination in the last several decades, the Overton Window is so far to the Right, that the average person doesn't know what socialism or communism are and are even afraid of them." Because of this ignorance, figures such as Bernie Sanders are seen as vehicles to "demystify" and repopularize the terminology of the Left, such as "socialism" and "revolution."
Depending upon a reinvigorated social democracy and left-liberalism to inform the proletariat about socialism is doomed to failure. How often have we made fun of neoliberals and lolberts for saying that even though deregulation and global trade have a long history of failure if we do it one more time it will somehow work? Yet so many of you accept this same logic with absolutely no self-reflection when it comes to social democrats. When the New Deal effectively neutered the Labor movement, it wasn't socialism that stood victorious but a welfare capitalism which helped the rich create and keep even more wealth than if a revolution had taken place (Donald Trump's father, who was able to make his fortune primarily thanks to New Deal era housing regulations, is a good example). The reason a revolution didn't take place was because so many in the Left pre-empitively declared defeat of "real Leftism" and decided to collaborate with the liberal wing of the movement. To be fair there was a brutal repression of the movement, but its power was still such that the government took measures such as placing machine guns on top of the White House.
This collaboration with reformist liberalism led to the near-complete decimation of the real US Left in the 60s and 70s. The New Left, which despite revisionist histories that attempt to paint it as completely obsessed with liberal identity politics, was largely anticapitalist and wanted to go further than the New Deal of the 30s, was infilitrated and destroyed by the US government, largely with the oversight of Lyndon B. Johnson, whose politics were a direct evolution of FDR liberalism supported by the Left in the name of a "coalition victory". The Black Panthers were completely wiped out, MLK Jr and Malcolm X assassinated for their leftward pivot which brought a criticism of capitalism into their message. A right wing backlash then brewed which got Nixon, Reagan, and Bush elected the War on Drugs started, neoliberalism's popularization, and the rightward shift in the US in general, including the death of the welfare capitalist Democrats.
Tl;DR SocDems gonna socdem, stop falling for their sneaky tricks, organize for revolution
That's one way you can say "were violently arrested and purged by capitalist state forces," sure.
Colton Russell
What exactly makes the DSA reformist? It was founded by Marxists, contains tons of Marxists, is mostly aligned with pre-WW1 Socialist thinking.
Jayden Jones
so was the CPC
Anthony Bennett
Also, OP, your entire argument is a mess. You seem to think the New Deal was social-democracy, you point out with no reason whatsoever that a revolution would have happened without it, apparently you think liberals and Communists cooperated, which is wrong, and you're blaming the murder of Malcolm X on Social-Democracy? What? You are utterly confused.
Charles Anderson
…okay?
Lincoln Collins
being founded by Marxists doesn't mean jack shit especially if the current membership is like 1% Marxist and 99%succdems
Juan Allen
And where are you getting these numbers from?
Jackson Garcia
Dsa aren't socdems for one. Secondly, you cannot deny the energy that Sanders injected into even the most radical of left wing politics.
Asher Morris
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Jace Long
not an argument!
Jose Scott
OK, I'll just wait for my entire community to be starved and sick while sitting on my ass doing nothing, because the DSA is the only remotely leftist organization in my shit town, but they're not pure enough so poor people are just gonna have to get fucked until the magical revolution.
What the fuck is wrong with tankies and leftcoms? It makes me think people making these snotty purity arguments have never set foot into a red state in the US. You don't realize how backwards it still is here and how much poor people are suffering.
Jacob Williams
We get it. You are never going to do shit in your life, OP. Your leftism as a fucking hobby. A thread died so you can jerk your tiny dick around about how you sit on the sidelines and yell about the only group doing a damn thing in the USA while you sit at home shitposting and LARPing.
You've been a leftist for three months, think you're super radical, and lose all interest in another three months when you move onto some other hobby.
Luke Barnes
lol some butthurt DSA supporter actually reported this thread as "suspicious." Yeah, electing cops and promoting US intervention isn't suspicious, criticism of it is.
James Lewis
Is it time for another purge BO?
Austin Foster
But it is kind of suspicious, Holla Forums probably makes similar thread all the time.
Nicholas Sanders
threads*
Jayden Baker
also why aren't you deleting those "Are you a boy/girl" slide bait threads? I reported like 4 of them
Adam Green
I'm doing that, he used a bunch of IPs.
Blake Price
It's not suspicious. It's just yet more whiny faggotry from Rosa posting newfags who think that DSA is the fucking freikorps reincarnated for making a blunder. What is suspicious is having a 90% disapproval rating and not abdicating.youIronically, the same hysterical retards who wanted your head on a spike a few weeks ago are now doing it again with DSA and you're on their side.
Eli Allen
He wasn't a cop but an organizer for a cop union, which is arguably worse.
Henry Davis
threadly reminder that muh overton window is straight up idealism
Elijah Moore
How
Aaron Taylor
What happened to Holla Forums
Ryder Hill
people can't use google to find out what socdem even is apparently
Gavin Young
I vote for SocDems out of egoistic self-interest. I want my wages to be high enough to make ends meet and I want rents to be affordable.
Of course, I know that Social Democracies get inevitably dismantled after 10 years due to their inherent contradictions, and no communist party should ever openly endorse or collaborate with them.
Easton Ward
why are there so many anti DSA threads ?
for the love of god just bump the current one that was posted
Jose Thomas
Reminder that after DSA kicks the cop union organizer out, Momentum will gain a majority in the NPC because his replacement will be the runner-up.
Xavier Lewis
TBH I suspect it's either edgy newfags, polyps trying to stir up shit, or cointelpro, because generally speaking one is a supporter of DSA in itself then one is an idiot socdem already and they're not going to get their mind changed, and two the majority of Holla Forums is already ambivalent or critical of voting politics already and never supported the DSA to begin with, or if they did it was only insofar as it might help the larger regeneration of the left in some way rather than anything it might be capable of itself.
Tyler Morales
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Asher Watson
The national's tweet I posted is most recent. Austin DSA is Fetonte's. They don't determine whether he stays or leaves, the national does.
Luis Wright
If they had this mentality they wouldn't have elected him in the first place
I guess bo is an edgy newfag
Seriously this board has always been critical of succdems I don't get why now all of the sudden you can't be without being called a Holla Forumsack. Holla Forums probably doesn't even know who dsa is and if they did they'd be targeting them directly not coming here.
David Russell
Maybe it's because the notion that DSA is still succdem is a literal meme. You're an out of touch newfag who takes Rosa posting seriously. I always see all these trotskyite fucks say "A cop is in DSA! COINTELPRO confirmed!!! Destroy the DSA, join my irrelevant sect instead." The purpose of COINTELPRO is to subvert and destroy any target organization. And now we have "leftists" on this board who want to do COINTELPROs job for it. I knew this board ALWAYS took the bait, but I did not expect you guys to fall for something of this magnitude.
Daniel Taylor
This anti-DSA posting is literal cointelpro and it's the same handful of people posting with the same flags. Fuck off with this divide and conquer. Fuck off with this blatant misinfo too. The people most pissed about a cop union organizer getting a position are the ACTUAL DSA MEMBERS. He is getting canned and replaced with an actual leftist. T His bullshit is so incredibly transparent I hope no one, aside from the already proven brain-dead BO, fall for this.
Joseph Allen
We're
Also DSA's platform is still overwhelmingly succdem despite all their Marxist posturing on Twitter. The left wing didn't really take over at the convention and they're still headed by people who support Democrat style imperialism
Jacob Anderson
DSA isn't succdem. They're demsoc with a large faction of actual revolutionaries gradually seizing control of the organization. You aren't making any actual arguments. Just thoughtless one-liners as would be expected of a fed that doesn't know shit about revolutionary politics beyond Holla Forums memes.
Brayden Bennett
If you have some super awesome alternative organization for people to join than fucking post it you retarded fed.
Ayden Lopez
What's the difference? Duterte is Demsoc, and look how the Philippines is doing. Seems like they both lead on the same path.
Isaac Peterson
Says the person who has done nothing but call anyone who diagrees with them fbi or Holla Forums
Also the "they're demsoc not socdem" meme needs to die. They endorsed Bernie and have followed the left wing of the Dems(aka moderate succdems) for almost the entirety of their existence. Beyond that gradualism of any kind is not revolutionary, even the pacifist demsoc dsa and berniecrats love to quote,MLK Jr recognized that.
The left has been divided since the first international and in the USA particularly ever since at least the 1920s. Yes cointelpro was a thing that happened and still happens but you can't blame every single crticism of your special little succdem oganization on the FBI, that's the equivalent to the Dems blaming every problem they have on Russia/fake news/the white workers etc.
Furthermore even if dsa was legitimately demsoc demsoc itself is a big fat act in futility. If you look at what happened in the various Latin American countries which attempted to have a demsoc revolution, including Venezuela, you'll see plenty of evidence of that. Again, subversion from the West and the us is what hit those countries hard but it was only able to be so successful because of the half measures implemented. Revolution is the complete destruction and or appropriation of the old society if you leave anything of it behind as demsoc and succdems do it comes back 1000x worse and destroys whatever progress has been made.
This is why your movement will always be impotemt and collapse back into liberalism
Luis James
Did he ever eat those guys liver or did he pussy out?
Logan James
This is next level LARPing.
Jordan Campbell
Pics related. This is inexcusably stupid. Thank you for highlighting the fact that the anti-DSA camp of Holla Forums is filled with illiterate memers.
Eli Sanchez
We're talking about 21st century America where Bernie Sanders is the face of democratic "socialism". Your inability to critically look at the DSA is quite bizarre.
Brandon Torres
They grudgingly endorsed him. They didn't actually provide any support and have been clear that he is the least worst option. They aren't the only socialist org that did either. They DID NOT support Hillary or the dems in the election. On the other hand CPUSA has sucked dem dick since forever.
Really showing you don't know shit about the party. They abandoned dem entryism years ago.
Their goal for now is to build the broad left and make transitional demands to show workers who is on their side. This is as much propaganda as a means to actually help working people. Ever read the manifesto? I seem to recall a few transitional demands even at a time when the left held far more power than now.
Not an argument. You haven't even established that the org actually is succdem, which it isn't. You're also ignoring that it has been moving further left for years.
They are formally demsoc now, but, again, there is a large revolutionary faciton in DSA that knows DSA cannot be an end unto itself. It's a tool in building the left and helping working people. I'm fully aware what revolution is. I've been an active and communist for more than a decade now. Active as in actually engaged in activism and, mostly, wasting my time building up impotent orgs.
Where is your movement? DSA is impotent? They're far less impotent than any other socialist group in the country. Do me a favor and direct me toward the revolutionary organization giving us socialism. Please let me know because I've worked with a lot of the current orgs and their precursors. Where is this super awesome revolutionary party I should be in right now. Either respond or fuck off because you are completely fucking clueless about the current circumstances int he US or are intentionally trying to divide and conquer.
I don't see how socialists trying to help workers and trying to build a broad left is any more so LARPing than joining a fringe group that does little more than shill papers.
Joseph Smith
Sanders has removed the stigma around socialism which is a giant victory in itself. You're so shortsighted, it's fucking insane. You think that we expect Sanders to lead the vanguard inexplicably. In reality, we expect Sanders to move the Overton window further to the left. A few years ago, Medicare for all was a crazy radical idea. Now a majority of the country wants it. We need to keep pushing further and further left and educating people about socialism. Also, DSA electing a police union organizer was a significant blunder and needs to be rectified, but the hysteria surrounding him is ridiculous. The reality is that he will get canned and DSA will get better vetting. I am critical of DSA, I'm just not a fucking histrionic retard who thinks that the DSA is calling in the freikorps.
Henry Cook
When does the dsa go beyond gradualism and start behaving revolutionary? Give me a rough estimate of how many schoolboards will have to have a "socialist" on them until dsa actually does something that isn't parliamentarian and reformist. Succdems have been using this argument again, since the early 1900s, and it never goes anywhere. They just indefinitely occupy space until fascists or neoliberals boot them out
Furthermore it's not a negation of my criticism or accusations against dsa to say "well where's your movement?" This is the same as when liberals say that it's okay to keep Supporting democrats because "nobody else is in Congress". It's also virtually the same to say "vote for a succdem org because it's changed!" As it is to say "vote for democrats because they changed!" The platform has made some cosmetic adjustments to appease the minority of radicals that you claim are going to save dsa from impotence but it's still fundamentally reformist
Eli Jackson
I'd tell you to join PSL, but you are a fedjacketing, backstabbing socdem retard, so actually just kill yourself.
Adrian Gomez
No see it's actually everyone who is an actual leftist and not a socdem who is a Fed, that's why Our Revolution offices are being vandalized on a regular basis
What is it with old people and wanting to start nuclear wars?
Nolan Phillips
In the article he just says that North Korea is a danger, but that China is the key to solving the problem, and that if Trump is working on/with China then he's doing the right thing. The title seems misleading…
Bentley Young
Oh you're gonna be a thing then Well so far you're less annoying than Afroplasm at least
Andrew Reyes
You might consider looking up the article and reading it. The title is misleading. It's also from April, and now that Trump is blathering about raining hellfire or something he's definitely not saying the guy is on the right track with anything
Caleb Rivera
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Easton Howard
The bigger problem is that leftists aren't communists. Daily reminder: 'Left' has always meant liberalism since the dawn that bourgeois distinction was made.
Zachary Cooper
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Landon Richardson
This is from April. Stop using it to smear Sanders. The article is Sanders vouching for diplomacy. Since this escalation he's been openly critical.
Justin Price
Top kek
Jordan Richardson
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Elijah Perry
Yes, cops serving the dictatorship of the proletariat are better than cops serving the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
