Rojava General: The Fall of Raqqa and a DFSNS/Syrian Government Future

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Rojava News: Turkish-backed FSA was hit by ATGM'ed by YPG in Afrin


turk roaches BTFO'd

shit forgot to remove shitty namefag

What happened to forever cycling edition?

It was imperialist

I don't know why they bother antagonizing Iran at this point.


Every fucking time.

Okay, complete noob here. Can someone explain to me what the Free Syrian Army is? I've seen some tankies and trots support them, and I don't know if they've fallen out of favor, but on what grounds did they oppose Assad? What are their actual politics?

Salafist Mercenaries and one tiny group of trots

I hope you are kidding because no tankie ever supported them. There were some Trot orgas that gave critical support because Trots are basically closet Neocons

FSA is not a single army. It's a broad term for opposition fighters. We're talking about hundreds upon hundreds of militias, since the start of the war, calling themselves FSA and championing the same flag. Some are islamists, some serve foreign interest, some just want bourgeois democracy and capitalism, some fight with SDF.

Thank you for the succinct answers.

I saw a few twitter tankies speak positively about them, particularly in counter-distinction to YPG, because apparently some were supporting Assad.

As an anarchist, I ask you to please discard the opinions of twitter tankies. They are fucking terrible and it's unfair to associate them with our tankie friends here.

Personally I only ever really use "tankie" as an insult when discussing that small anomaly of idiotic ultraleft "anti-revisionists" who seem to only exist on the internet. Red Kahina, Phil Greaves, etc. I'm almost convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that they're cointelpro. Aside from that, I used to be an ML when I was younger and feel no animosity towards them, I just really don't know anything about the FSA and have a very rudimentary understanding of what's going on in the Syrian Civil War, and I figured this thread was the best place to ask.


its a joke

my head hurts


Raqqa will not fall anytime soon, even Mosul took Iraqi gov over 6 months, and k*rds are no match when it comes to Iraqi militias both in equipment, training, willpower to fight, support etc…
Not to mention that k*rds are on sunni majority terrains right now so they will have to struggle hard to maintain the territiory.
Not only that but Iraqi gov took over 10.000 casualties taking Mosul, do you think that k*rds have willpower and manpower to take that much casualties?

And even if they win, Raqqa will be in ruins and local sunni arab population will hate kurds even more laying ground for more insurgencies ISIS style

Calm down, bruh

A lot wrong with this post. If the current rate of liberation keeps up, it will probably be over in a 1 to two months. The point is that Raqqa will inevitabily fall and most likely sooner then later. You might not remember or know this, but a point was made to utilize mostly arab SDF members to take raqqa. What makes you say that the YPG and SDF are less willing to fight, or less well trained when they've been more successful fighting ISIS then the Iraqi militias have? Arab majority cities like Manbij haven't been suffering from style ISIS insurrections despite being arab majority

cmon. im dont particulary fancy the SDF and even i would say raqqa has less than two months.
the situation is very different from iraq.
iraq had years of insurgency and an established sunni community network.
insurgents there were the patriot, the defender, and sunni militias like alqeada enjoyed alot of support from some parts of the sunni population.
menawhile in syria ISIS is still an invader, and theyre fighting locals. not to mention the US has much more interest in taking Raqqa compared to Mosul.
any real effort to capture mosul by the US died when Obama saw he couldnt do it by the end of his presidency for the PR.
raqqa on the other hand plays a big part in the whole syria game for the US.

Ah yes, a mouthpiece of the Qatari state is certainly an unbiased source of information on the conflict. /s


You're a retard

Anyone else here heard of "Jinwar Village"? Apparently it's a project to create a female only village.
Thoughts on this?

just why?

You mean dyke village.

They won't last long?

There could be immigration?

Sounds good to me.

Why not?

I understand the point as being to teach women how to live on their own and to build skills that encourage independence.

It's in line with what they talk about regularly and I hope it works out.

Only if they don't get any help or training from men prior. If a group of guys say "okay do EXACTLY this for 1 year and when you don't starve to death we'll call it a woman made paradise" it doesn't count.

It will fail like every other time something like this has been tried. Self-segregating feminists are hilarious.


There's no such thing as an unbiased source of information

wtf I hate Rojava now.


Apparently Daesh is now using gunners when using VBIEDs

At first I thought it was kinda a silly idea, but that it might be useful to help women become more independent, and if it was a commune for adults that that's their business and I don't really care. But then I read this:
They actually plan on raising children here, which not only sounds really shitty to raise children without any adult males at all (and it does raise the question of how the women will get pregnant) but it also talks about making the children leave at a certain age, presumably just the male children. That sounds fucking horrible and barbarous, you become 16 or whatever and you're forced out of your home, community, and family solely because you're a man. Segregationism, even self-imposed, is reactionary and destructive, and this just trades a patriarchy for a matriarchy. And what about sex and relationships? They're an extremely important part of human life and general wellbeing. I can understand why a revolutionary needs to be celibate, but the same ideology shouldn't spread beyond that.

The whole mindset behind this seems regressive. There's a difference between being autonomous and independent and believing that half of the population isn't needed or important and it's best to live without them.

Because it fixes nothing and if anything promotes a misandrist attitude.

I like Phil Greaves, he really seems to rile up weird Twitter so I'm curious why you think he's bad.


Why does he think that…..sheesh.

He believes it because he's an insane "anti-imperialist" who believes Rojava is just a burger tool, which means that PPG must be some kind of CIA plant of course

Everything in this post is ridiculous.


Good analysis.

Yeah? And?

Doesn't seem to be enough information available at the moment. I mean, I'm not entirely convinced that being raised by a village of women is necessarily a bad thing, but it does raise questions regarding what rights a father has towards their children.

women cannot raise psychologically healthy children without men. this is just a simple fact of life.
it goes both ways. a man cannot raise a child without women either.

It's more of a brand now. The title FSA is just given to opposition forces who aren't affiliated with al Nusra or whatever name they are now.

does anybody have a good documentary on rojava I can watch?

What is this trash?

citation needed

here you go famrade

Your opinion is noted, as is the absence of your argument.


I just finished watching this, it's amazing that they were able to pull this off.
But I'm just wondering, how close are they to achieving self-sustenance in the event that imperialist powers pull out of economic aid?
It's fairly obvious they are getting their weapons and ammo from outside, do they plan on working on manufacturing it themselves in the future?

They'll procure it from the black market like they have been for years. Not hard to get either weapons or ammo in the ME

Why are tankies so split on Rojava? Some support it (and the MLKP), others see it as an Israeli-US project and support Assad instead.

Actually politically active tankies support it, it's the internet armchair tankies like Phil Greaves that don't


You can support both. Don't buy into the liberal framing of the issue. Assad is not bad and neither is Rojava. Now if they started openly calling for secession I would love to watch them get crushed but they aren't doing that so they are still deserving of support as an experiment in leftist political organization.

0/10 are you even trying?

You know very little about Rojava are are very mistaken on multiple points.

troll harder

because one side only cares about ideology and the supposed revolution, while the other only cares about geopolitics and the longterm effects on the region.
simple as that

all this is true though

You say this like supporting revolution is a bad thing, and maintaining the capitalist status quo is good. Why even call yourself a leftist then?

if a revolution does more bad than good to its surroundings and doesent spread then the ends do not justify the means.

Because communists don't just support any kind of revolution, they only support communist revolution, and they are vehemently against opportunism.
YPG is not communist, it's influenced by the idiot Murray Bookchin. His ideas are opportunist, idealist, utopian, and explicitly anti-communist and anti-Marxist. Moreover, the YPG is allowing dozens of US bases in their region, and is likely carrying out US geopolitical aims. They have also recently taken to complementing Saudi Arabia.


Why lie.

Can i see the evidence for that statement.

Literally a show of Appearing > Being.

They are being back by the International leftist community it they were not communist or any form of leftism they would not be supporting them.

I fucking hate this board

good fie you, now leave like many of time you did leave before you fuking pedo using flag as avatarfaging attention whore.

Dude Apo became a Bookchinite in prison. Probably as some kind of MKULTRA experiment for all we know. But either way, the PKK and YPG don't adhere to communist theory any more.

And who are you to say that this revolution is causing more harm then good? This revolution has done more to abolish accumulation of capital and empowerment of the people then any the Syrian government has

Serious communists like the mlkp support and actively participate in the revolution. Are they not true communists now compared to you, who probably hasn't done anything really to support communist struggle

how the fuck are they not?
communism=/=marxism btw

A small gang of fringe Hoxhaists. The Syrian communist party supports the Syrian government.

How are you so fucking clueless about the thing you fetishize so much? They themselves will tell you that Rojava is "democratic confederalist," "cantonalist," "communalist," or some such. However, it is not communist and is not the result of praxis informed by Marxist theory. AND fuck off with your revisionism. The only worthwhile theory of socialism and communism is Marxism, period, the end.

MLKP is actually active in a people's war against the Turkish government, which is a lot more then some controlled opposition party.
Glass houses etc. Communalism is built off of an understanding and critique of Marx's theories, but you've never read any communalist theory so you wouldn't know that.

Why even bother calling him a neo-liberal? You think this is some magic word that Marxists are supposed to be scared of? He's bourgeois, we get it: that's why all genuine Marxists support him and the Syrian government wholeheartedly against the medieval reactionaries that the USA, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and others have sent into Syria to destroy everything. This is basic Marxism. Capitalism is preferred over feudalism.
Moreover, it's rich calling him a neo-liberal when Syrians STILL have social support and welfare systems that people from all over the world, including the West, would salivate over. Just because he made some attempts at reforms to keep NATO off his back? Fuck off.

No, COMMUNISM is built off of an understanding of Marx's theories. COMMUNISM is an ever-evolving concept. Communalism is built off of an explicit rejection and revision of the most important and indispensable aspects of Marxism. READ MARX, READ ENGELS, READ LENIN.

y tho

This is so factually incorrect that it almost doesn't even warrant a response, but I'll respond nevertheless. All of those countries are "bourgeois" or capitalist. None of them are "medieval", all of them are part of the modern capitalist system just as much as Syria is. Literally none of these countries has a feudalistic mode of production. I can't believe I actually have to point this out to you.
This is like calling Sweden socialist. Assad privatized a lot of the industry in Syria, and if that doesn't constitute neo-liberalism then what does?
Top kek. Not sure if genuinely retarded or just a troll. The fact that you're saying we should support one bourgeois against the other while telling us to read Lenin of all people is absolutely hysterical. Anyways, please do point out the differences between Dialectical Naturalism and Dialectical Materialism, and how Dialectical Naturalism isn't built off of an understanding and critique of Dialectical Materialism.

You fucking imbecile, Al Qaeda is the most clear-cut case of feudal reactionary ideology living today. And they have demonstrably attempted to push Syria back into the stone age by selling off all of the factory equipment to Turkey, not to mention the massive destruction to infrastructure and buildings.

I never did, you are willfully misinterpreting what I said.

Wow, it's almost like I'm arguing with Bookchin himself! Nothing but willful misinterpretation, lies, and idiocy.

when will Erdogan just fucking die already

Literally has nothing to do with DFSNS, nor why we should support Assad over them. This is all ultimately a moot point anyways considering the two aren't explicitly enemies.
ayy lmao. Stay mad buddy

We got on the topic of Assad because I mentioned that the real Syrian communists support his government. You, in your infinite wisdom, proceeded to argue that Al Qaeda wasn't a reactionary force against which it is correct to support a bourgeois state.

The Syrian communists support the Syrian government and DON'T support Rojava because Rojava is in a mutual relationship with the USA, which is the country ultimately responsible for sending in the legions of Al Qaeda in the first place. There are dozens of US bases in Rojava, including air strips which the USAF may have already used to launch attacks directly on SAA forces, and which they are guaranteed to have used to attack Syrian infrastructure. On top of this, major YPG officials have been making overtures to Saudi Arabia. Rojava has become the backup plan for the USA's attempt to break up Syria.

dissidence among leftists isn't uncommon, as this board proves.

You created a false dichotomy by implying it's either a choice between Al Qaeda or the Syrian Government, and it's not. Mind you, you said nothing about Al Qaeda but instead implied that the US and it's allied were medieval and operating as feudalistic economies. Your failure to make yourself clear is your own, not mine.
The Syrian Communist party supports Assad because they're controlled opposition existing in a defacto hereditary Monarchy. As it currently stands, SDF and SAA have a joint operations room and both occupy the same territory in many places. US aid says nothing regarding the socialistic character of the DFSNS and Revolution in general mind you.

How anyone can ask this after Kobane is beyond me

It fucking is. It's literally the Syrian government or Al Qaeda, literally everyone in Syria other than SDF says so. The Syrian government is the only force in the region capable of standing up to Al Qaeda.

Your confusion is only the result of your blatant cluelessness about the situation in Syria. You should research the topic more and talk about it much, much less.

Weird how this critique applies to communists who oppose imperialism, but not the YPG, which is cooperating directly with the USA. Watch your fucking tongue.

This aspect of the conflict is ambiguous as it stands. US and Russia also do deconfliction, and the DOD was sharing intel with the SAA at one point (against the wishes of other US agencies). However, if you are arguing that Rojava will just get folded back into the Syrian state, then why do you even care about it?

DFSNS has done more to fight Islamic extremists actually. Just look at the amount of land liberated vs the amount of land SAA has liberated.
No, u
Look at the internet tough guy over here. Can't you make an argument without using shitty logical fallacies like tu quoque?
DFSNS shouldn't be folded back into the Syrian state. Rather, it's much preferable that the system be expanded to the rest of Syria existing as a dual power alongside the Syrian Government.

Wow a faked tweet really convinced me.

It amazed me what lengths anit-imperialists will go to discredit only one of

the 3 communist states in existence

Where the fuck did the IFB and IRPGF Facebook pages go? They disappeared at the same time.

ok this is just bait

how can drawing new borders and pouring in new militant grouos and weapons be good for the region in any way?
it doesent take a single year of foregein politics or history study to know that if kurdistan appears aout of all his that its just gonna be a shitstorm in the region for another couple of decades.
any revolution can outpreform an already established goverment administrative complex in the fields of local/personnal/social liberty.
the reason states are so oppressive is because thats the price of keeping it all in order and one piece.

saddam was better, youre right.

neoliberalism is a freemarket free4all.
most of the provate sector in syria is oned by a nomenoclature of baathist officials and associates, giving the economy much more flexibility, but not alienating goverment control.
read a book before you spew bullshit.

kys Holla Forums

absolutely retarded.

kys now

im sure the retard fairy is working on your wish right now because noone else is.

facebook regulary delelets all "unapproved of" pages these days, be it leftist, right-wing, just plane opposition, not-PC humour, anything.

its not the faceless neoliberalism youre trying to portray it to be with your strawman fallacies

do you know what a strawman fallacy is?

That is complete bullshit. And most of the land in SDF territory is just farmlands and desert.

just kys

yes, it works like this

that's not what strawman means. the point is that Assad is a neoliberal, whether the drought happened or not. You're the one who's using no true scotsman.
I never blamed it on neoliberalism, but to deny that Assad is neoliberal is stupid.

1. no.
2. who cares anyway.
3. you have been repeatedly BTFO and proven to be utterly clueless about Syria. fuck off.



then compare to the US and former socialist states in eastern europe.

elaborate on how is assad a neoliberal

holy shit youre retarded. youre one of those millenial faggots that started following some random twitter accounts in 2016 when he saw some facebook post about rojava.
you dont know shit about whats going on down there.

but you do?

we know more than you, dipshit. STFU and don't talk unless you know what you're talking about.

no u


That's retarded though. It implies that only an ancap's paradise is constitutes neo-liberalism and none of the policies that lead up to that, privatization of nationalized industries, have anything to do with that.

Not an argument
Manbij, Al-Thawrah, and soon Raqqa as well as other towns and hundreds of villages have been liberated by SDF. Stay mad though
Not an argument either.

Nothing to do with DFSNS
Nobody, especially not the PYD, is talking about creating a kurdish state.
It's almost like the status quo is repressive and should be abolished
Might as well come out as a sucdem tbh

its not retarded when you try to pull off a slippery slope just to make someone look bad so he wont seem a better option thant what youre rooting for.

fucking FSA fought against ISIS longer than they did.

should i start counting all major cities, towns, industrial centers and villages liberated by goverment forces?
you probably wouldnt want that because it would make someone look like a bunch of nobodies with a city or two in the desert.

yeah, shit try m8, ill rate it bad/10

yeah because they jut moved to africa a minute ago right

im using kurdistan as a generalised term for any new state or "autonomous" area that might spring up with any given alphabet soup militant organisation on top

its should be, but not where it would enable a global hegemony power to enforce their franchise of status quo, which seems to be so subtly repressive that classes under it dont eve know theyre being repressed

not an argument.

That's a strawmen though. I never implied any "slippery slope", I merely pointed out that privatization of industry is a neoliberal policy, and to say otherwise if factually incorrect and intellectually dishonest. Why do you, as a supposed leftist, feel the need to defend someone who is in essence the latest in a relatively new line of hereditary monarchs?

I'm talking in terms of results. FSA and SAA haven't been liberating land and people like the SDF has, in the sense of the quantities of both
Yes please do. Just remember to not count areas they've held onto this entire time.
Do it anyways :^)
Considering the amount of people that flee to DFSNS territory when the government takes new land, I don't see it as very unlikely.
No u

What are you even trying to say here?
You don't have any proof that alphabet soup are controlling the DFSNS. If all you can do is make baseless smears then why bother posting at all?
False dichotomy. There's nothing about DFSNS that would mean such a thing, their poltical and economic system is completely their own, and you have no proof to the contrary. The best thing you have is speculation to how things *might* turn out in the future, but this speculation doesn't have really any leg to stand on at the moment besides a clearly temporary and purely military alliance against between the DFSNS and US against ISIS.
My argument is that you're no better then a sucdem who wants to maintain the status quo because revolution might be unpleasant.

forgot to include pic

just a reminder the irpgf was responsible for this travesty…..

it is. if youre trying to take one flaw and downplay it as the whole essence of someone its a slippery slope fallacy. its on the same level as saying that YPG is a bunch of CIA agents with facepaint because theyre backed by the US.

because i know enough about the region to know that the wars and sectarian violence will never stop if foregein powers continue to incurse there and if new borders and goverments are created every few months.

FSA has held areas with greater population than the current SDF areas. and saying that taking control of a strip of desert is like saying the US did 80% of the fighting in WW2 because they crosed such a large area of the ocean.

ok. Aleppo, Palmyra, Wadi Barada, Damascus Suburbs all have plenty times the more population than SDF areas. thats dismissing all the "towns and villages" and suburbs liberated too. And if you count all that desert area you think is so important then its obvious.

those are the pople that are afraid of reperations. theyre sceptical of the whole "full amnesty or if you want an evacuation to rebel held areas with green buses" deal because if they take either of those they admit defeat.

how old are you


When are people going to stop shouting this shit like a broken record? Why are these threads so repetitive? YPG et al do not want a new state. See: Öcalan's wishes.

YPG continue to worship Öcalan and have refused to pretend otherwise when asked by the west to do so. YPG are also aware that Öcalan was captured by Turkey with help from the CIA and Mossad, and won't have forgotten this bit of history. They are not zionist sleeper agents trying to install Kurdisrealistan.

New groups like ISIS? Oh that's right, they've been cleaned up by Kurds.

With ISIS removed, the CIA no longer have a ground army of sunni stooges to try and crush Assad. Why do you people fear that the Kurds will be the ones to suddenly break Assad's back? What does a US presence in the north matter right now when they do not have actual ground forces (like ISIS) willing (like ISIS) to run in and attack Assad? Why keep yelling about geopolitics when the Turkey-Qatar pipeline is probably off the table anyway until someone really does kill Assad? Even if the Kurds DID want to kill Assad, why would they risk it? Why would they piss off Russia, when Russia helps keep Turkey in check? Why do you think any US bases are permanent when people have told them to fuck off from their bases plenty of times in the past two decades, pretty much driving the US out of central asia?

Anyway, Marxist-leninist fellow PPG talks about Rojava from first-hand experience in the podcast known as Delete Your Account, episode 49. According to him, the Kurds are dead fucking serious. They're not going to stop displaying Öcalan's image everywhere, regardless of what the west thinks. And yes, PPG was aware that their ideologies don't align perfectly. Do you think PPG sperged out, dropped his AK and refused to cooperate any further because the Kurds do not share the exact same ideas? Do you think he interrupted meetings, wagging his finger while telling his hosts how they should be running the place?

so… whats the solution then? Sex separation? It's not at all like this are just averages andthat there is far ,more to society than just building a shelter.

good post

you really show how disconnected you are from the material world here. any faction that wants to control a certain area can either choose between creating a defacto state or being a guerilla insurgency. theres no such thing as a special snowflake not state state.
and marx said the state would be abolished. that went well in the USSR.


If a politician can't be defined by his policies then what does define him? Just because he hasn't dismantled the welfare state in the country or completely privatized it doens't mean that his policies haven't been neo-liberal. My point ultimately regarding Assad is that there's nothing legitimate about him besides his last name, and his position as the head of the Syrian government is one that he's inherited not gained through support of the people or merit.
Foreign powers will continue to incurse there even if the Syrian government takes back everything. Besides, the desire for "stability" is absurd considering that socialism/communism requires violent revolution to be achieved. It's conservative at best and at worst reactionary.

Holding areas =/= liberating.
Aleppo was never fully under the control of the rebels, Palmyra was lost twice and these areas that are taken back usually come with a mass exodus from the populace because they fear the Government. Not really liberating the populace if most of them flee the area in fear of you
Civilians don't care about "admitting defeat", they're afraid of being punished by the government because it's an authoritarian state ruled by a defacto monarch.
Same age as you probably. You expected me to respond seriously to that?


Do you support the US overthrowing him?

Not in the least. I support a dual power, though. I think the system the DFSNS is creating is much more legitimate and empowering the people, which doesn't mean abolishing the syrian government but creating something that does empower the people

take a map and look where syria is.

when your cherrypicking macroeconomic actions youre not making a good case. if anything hes (post)bathist.
works both ways
if that were true syria would have already fallen in 2011
he was selected by his father after the death of Basil, and in favor of his two other brothers that had much more military and strongman experience for a reason.
prettymuch all states in the status quo have inherent power, somewhere more obvious somewhere less.
and if an honest election was held today, who do you think would win?

exactly my point with syria being split between syrian and rojava areas.
about as absurd when your revolution creates another caliphate
how about dragging the status quo untill the local society is on the proper level? marx didnt intend a revolution to happen in kingdoms of religious radicalsand powerhungry warlords.

liberating is a strong word with the FSA. and still, from 2011 the areas they captured trough the years were still as densely populated as im suggesting

most of it was. its like saying that DFSNS didnt liberate anything because there were still some pockets of resistance somewhere.
they fear war dumbass. civillians retreat from any frontline, sometimes to behind lines sometimes they try to go over them like in Aleppo
not really counting as populce when you count jihadist supporters, fighter and their families while dismissing everyone else because it wasnt in some biased news source

but fighters and radicals do, so they flee and take their families with them.
which is redundant because of the amnesties and ceasfires the goverment offers them on a silver plate but they reject
you mean because they fear punishment for the attrocities they comitted. those folks dont know or give a shit about political classifications.

why not

I don't understand why you hold this black and white view and disparage anything in between. So there can never be a transition phase to a new kind of society?

Okay, so Öcalan's followers should just give up then because the USSR fucked up Marx's wishes? That's kinda ironic coming from an anti-imperialist tankie, don't you think?

Yeah, so I guess the Kurds have it coming then when they get bombed by NATO-ally Turkey. They're just pawns and so no different from ISIS and Al-queda. At all.

Can you explain this idea to me about supporting this axis at all costs? How many journalistic outlets support this notion? Where did it originally come from? I've seen one of you types trying to convince someone on lainchan that he should try to join hezbollah instead of the kurds. I'm pretty sure hezbollah do not accept random international volunteers, especially not atheist internet memers, so that makes me a little worried. Are you going to recommend that board users try to join the islamic revolutionary guard corps? Where do you draw the line for this anti-imperialism purity contest?

They care what Erdogan thinks, and he does give a crap. The AKP hates YPG so much that they gave half a million funbux to Michael Flynn to have him delay American support for any kind of Kurdish invasion of Raqqa. They don't want Kurds to have that symbolic honor.

Not when the Syrian government leaves Rojava alone. You could maybe imagine a scenario where Turkey bombs a Kurdish town and somehow tries to blame it on Assad but I doubt the Kurds themselves will actually fall for it and then just go along with a yankee invasion.

as cynical as it sounds, that status quo held up alot better than what you have today in iraq, syria, libya, yemen….
US invasions, muslim brotherhood and the arab spring werent random coincidences, you know that right?
actually assads "liberal" policies that easened the strict goverment control grip on social and political aspects of citizens life and the release of hundreds of dangerous political prisoners did. oh, and then theres those policies that werent approved of by the US, israel, gulf states, EU and turkey.

youre right, its vice versa

the US has "consent" and they have bases. and they can just make them consent more by showing them the other option which is the danger from their local neighbours.

let me rephrase it

I still don't see any reason to support Assad's government over the YPG.


cuz the YPG are backed/controlled by the U.S and and a certain apartheid state

The Rojava Revolution: The Revolution of Economic Achievements and Return to Communal Economy

I understand that, but what about the off change they succesfully become and independent state? They've gotten farther than anybody else in the world so far towards actual Socialism, at this point it's a bet I'm willing to make.

This used to be the best general on this board, with acctual discusion, news and shit. Now its just the tankie sperg out thread.

Blame the BO

BO you fuggin thot I cant belive you've done this

because this is becoming a tanky board

I feel its becoming more of a Leftcom board tbh.
But regarding Rojava; you guys think they will "spread" the revolution in any way after the war? To Iraq or Tureky perphaps?

Noone supports them. Holla Forums got Assad and lefty/pol/ got YPG (though many of us also support Assad). The only people supporting FSA unironically are liberals who believe in CNN and shit. They also still believe the FSA to be "moderate". They are jihadis and were all along.

i understand this but its likely that entire place will be turned into a giant american-anti iran vassal where the socialist polices will be likely dismantled

and thats not even getting into some of the STUPID SHIT the YPG has done like link related

When you take it to the context of the middle east it ain't really so

if the day ever comes that DFNS becomes an official entity and no longer has to spend half its income on defense then the number one priority will become the arming, funding and training of PKK fighters for operations in Iraq and Turkey.

This is the one thing Turkroaches are actually completely justified in being paranoid about - the DFNS administration absolutely has the long term goal of destabilising Turkey as much as possible, though obv they have to deny this for diplomatic reasons.

Iraqi Kurdistan will be the next stop on this neverending carnage train, after the referendum there will be a power struggle between nationalists (KDP) backed by Turkey and leftists backed by PKK, YPG and possibly Baghdad.

how strong is the rad left in Iraqi Kurdistan is? I know the nationalists are the ruling party there, but are there any major DemCon parties there?

not if you're a newly converted Holla Forumsfag that still likes to imagine everything lgbt related is tumblr girls screeching about anita sarkeesian.

becuz less people die in future

oh well

turkey will have same territorial results as till now. also the US will pressure not to do that.
iraq will be a gunpowder barrel when youll have kurd ministates in the north and iran backed goverment in the rest of the country.

KDP is the "ruling" party of President Barzani and is anti-PKK and is a Turkish shill. Theres also the PUK who are friendly with the PKK and Iran. The KDP control the NW and the PUK the SE, they share power and most Peshmerga units are party aligned. Then you have Gorran who formed a few years ago from PUK and a few KDP members and became the second biggest party after the KDP in the last elections, they are friendly with the PKK also. On paper the KDP are tribalist/conservative and PUK and Gorran are centre-left.

The PUK and KDP are corrupt af and basically give everyone oil money while taking more from themselves and building shopping malls, worked fine until the oil prices fell right after ISIS invaded, was so bad that peshmerga where leaving the front to work because they hadn't been paid. This was part of the reason Gorran formed back in 2009. I think there's an internal rift inside the PUK with some wanting to form an alliance with Gorran but then they made an agreement with the KDP, their leader has been ill for a few years now, also Gorran's leader just died a few months ago so they may of weakened. Also the KDP have expelled Gorran from parliament and the capital and refuse another general election even though it's years late then went and called for an independence referendum as a distraction that could piss off Turkey, Baghdad and maybe Iran and the US.

The PUK and Gorran definately have people who are sympathetic to DemConfed and PUK Peshmerga special forces trained and fought along side the YPG, I've heard that Gorran's now deceased leader, former PUK commander against Saddam, was the one who put the US in contact with the YPG to get airstrikes in Kobane. The PKK have gained a huge amount of respect and support since 2014 and more Iraqi Kurds started joining them as they seen them as more motivated, less corrupt, fighting for a cause, etc. People seem generally pissed cause the economy's gone to shit and the KDP cracked down hard on protests in the capital. As well as their stronghold in Sinjar with the YBS the PKK are in Makhmour refugee camp and alongside PUK peshmerga around the Kirkuk front.

TBH this doesn't even scrape the surface of what I know and I still don't understand Kurdish politics or have any idea what's going to happen after 2 to 3 years of daily lurking on twitter and reddit

Seriously though I don't know if Israel considers Turkey too good of an ally to get involved with Rojava or is scared of them arming Hamas, probably the latter since the head of Iran's army just visited Turkey

So if I understood this correctly, Rojava dont have any concrete allies in Iraq, but there are a bunch of people that would fight with Rojava/the YPG if shit went down

who sais israel refuses to get involved with rojava?

YBS/YJS are concrete allies and they've sent units to help with YPG in Raqqa.

A great comrade has fallen.

the hate for iran is getting pretty autistic

like yeah its an islamist shithole but why that specific islamist shithole?

all thanks to BO for not logging off while having a severe mental breakdown. thanks BO

yeah and it's qatari propaganda to think the saudi state is bad. They're laughably similar.

we don't do idpol here

also there is no way OP could realisitically hang about with a girl

I agree. a sort of temporary commune where people live as like a sort of right of passage, or for weirdos to self segregate, would be useful. But just making a small scale male aparthied is like the cringiest tumblr fetish thing I can think of.

but anyone who's defending the Kurds out of their "Communist Ideals" and not a respect for the right to self determination is an idiot. Their revolution hasn't really done any of the things a revolution to predate communism.

there is no such thing as a communist revolution. Revolutions are borne of material conditions, not ideology. it is up to communists to "build" communism through the revolution.

Boy the leftcom autism is strong in this one.
How should the kurds achieve communism?


because it doesent bend the knee to america?

SDF is offering a long-term US airbase in Rojava in return for leaving them the fuck alone in politics and for supplies. McMaster seems down with the offer.
This is good diplomacy.

Is Rojava the most nimble navigator of diplomacy?



Was he the guy PPG was talking about? He said something about an Armenian who had fought with ASALA and maybe with the PFLP.

the ride never ends

does Holla Forums still believe this bs?

I fucking hope so.

Imagine being this braindead

is this just a selfedefnse mechanism to derail the thread now that its confirmed the US will terrorise the middle east for decades to come thanks to your revolution?


explain this post


what is point X?

>"the US will terrorise the middle east for decades to come thanks to your >>revolution

yes. To oppose the Islamic State. Is that a problem.

I do wonder. Will the US really leave them alone? How long? The US doesnt have a good track of being "good" allies.

And the PYD doesn't have a track record of being pushed around and forced to compromise.


Great stuff everyone.

which is a good thing, it means they won't be fucked over the minute they're no longer useful.

Amazing. US occupiers were *almost* beaten back from Syria. Thank God for Murray Bookchin.

You excused the invitation by the Syrian Kurds for the US to permanently occupy Syria by saying it was to oppose the Islamic State, and then when they make it clear that it will last for decades after ISIS is eliminated, you just say US occupation is good and needs no excuse.

Utterly disgusting. Partition incoming. Feel pretty ashamed for ever buying into the Rojava story.

again, how is this bad?

Phill greaves is going to have a field day with this. lmao

dont worry guys, its not a military occupation, theyre just taking whatever help they can get
dont worry guys, military occupation is actually not that bad

every country in red hasn't been fucked over by the US so far.

nobody thinks the kurds are gonna get fucked over by America

they think that America is going to use these airbases to fuck over Syria, Iran and Iraq.

Nobodies saying it's a good thing, but I do realize their reasons for doing it. It's either seek powerful allies or be repressed and by states that would see them wiped off the face of the earth. As long as their system remains socialistic I support them.

Already fucked up
Was fucked up, things will probably get slightly better.

TBH, the worst potential hotspot in the Mideast during the foreseeable future is probably the Saudi/Qatar/Yemen mess.

old thread*/

Wayback was pozzed early in GG, don't trust it to retain anything, use instead.


Well looks like the US is unilaterally asserting a no-fly zone. US illegal invasion and occupation of Syria in permenant effect. We did it!

Do the presence of an american base in Guantanamo makes Cuba a puppet of the Imperialists?

Because they'll become their puppets

Because they are NATO puppets…



are you a fucking vegetable? every country in red is today just a US puppet state with no independant foregein or internal policy whatsoever.
by the way, wheres the revolution in those countries you fucking ape? could it be that there is none just because it wouldnt benefit america?

can prosper if US and proxies fuck off
this boogeyman is the best thing thats happend to the region in the last decade
is still very fucked up thanks to the US
cant wait dumbass

that place is a desert that iran throws funds into to keep saudis bussy.
youre a fucking idiot that has no concept of geopolitics.
everything today hangs on the realisation of the iran-iraq-syria-lebanon axis.

no, because the Cuban goverment desent control that place. the US is occupying Cuba there.
just like syria doesent control that place and the US is occupying syria there.
shit try m8, il r8 it fag/0


Nah just most of them :^)

There's nothing with this
It is based

Talal Silo is part of the Seljuk Brigade
They are allied with the YPG but they aren't the YPG

Fredi Hazeem:



all three possibilities are godawful for the prospect of a progressive kurdish force in the long term

so what, should they just assimilate back into syria?



never gonna mock tankies again tbqh

I wouldn't go that far

what the fuckkk

literal 4chin Holla Forums post lmao

Yeah so I've listened to a lot of tankies, and that wildly mischaracterizes what all but a very tiny minority think about the country.

Say what you will about us involvement olin the region, but lets not pretend like theres anything else going on nearly as socialist as the dfsns is.

In the last couple of months there's defintely been more tankies speaking favorably of it than not. Maybe this is merely a loud minority but my point still stands

so what the socialistier something is the better it is no matter what

See now that you've retreated from the hyperbole of "workers paradise" what you've said is much more sensible. Yes some do speak positively of the DPRK in some aspects, supporting them against US imperialism and countering some of the falsehoods which the US and the ROK use to justify their hostility. That does not mean they are without criticisms of the DPRK though, and think theirs is a perfect society to be emulated.

Why is Germany so cucked?

PKK is considered a terrorist org by the EU, and there are a lot of Turks and Kurds in Germany

Roo is having a field day with that newest announcement about prolonged US occupation.


who gives a shit?

The Reuters article is probably false

I doubt the SDF's statement is real too as it's completely contradictory to the entire situation and previous statements by the SDF and US.

Cuban Kendal, SDF commander.

Also apologies for the duplicate spam, my Holla Forums fucked up if a mod can delete all of them off the catalog that would be great.

my desire to kill myself is decreasing slightly

wheres the WMDs faggot?
noted and dismissed

You don't understand. I have seen at least one tankie on here assert multiple times that the DPRK is actually more democratic than the USSR was.

The idea the U.S would set up an alternative to incirlik in rojava actually made me really happy because it meant our comrades wouldnt get genocided.

Its not a military occupation and it could actually be massive for rojava because it would constitute sovereign diplomatic recognition.

Saudi Arabia wanted U.S bases out. They left. Turkey wants U.S bases out. So theyre leaving. But yeah U.S bases never disappear guyz. Truth is they are there because the governments want them there.

And frankly as the U.S pulls back from bretton woods and is less reliant on the mid-east for oil, the less bases they will want or need to maintain overseas anyway.

US bases are flatly never up for negotiation with the sitting government. They only leave if the US is done with them. Enjoy your Israel 2.

If that were true why would they even be looking for an alternative to their turkish military base?

because turkey is firmly under Erdogans grip, who was almost overthrown by a coup which erdogan beleives was supported by the US. The top-down hirearchy is even more enforced and if erdogan decides to be pals with russia turkey will be plas with russia.

rojava or whatever that thing down there is doesent have such a centralised command (which you boast about) so manipulating them wont be hard.

because youre some first world NEET armchair general that has no connection to the people in the region whatsoever.

it is. rojava isnt a state. syria however is and is also a memeber of the UN with allies in the UNSC.
the situation now is that there are some rouge militant groups and US troop occupying the sovereign territory of the syrian arab republic and thus violating international law.

you have no fucking clue how the dollar works do you?

Cuba wants US bases out.
Yes, they want the bases more than they want to be liberated into oblivion.


Speaking of which.
Is there more info/confirmation about the IRPGF being kicked out of Raqqa offensive?

But i thought you said us bases were never up for negotiation?

Do you have any connection to the people in the region? Why is it that people flee to dfsns territory whenever the saa "liberates" their land? How is a quasi fascist state preferable to a system of direct and representative democracy that the people in dfsns enjoy?

yes, from iraq and syria. and the iraqi guy apparently posts on pol and complains how bush and israel fucked everything up.

because theyre running away from reparations and dont trust the nation-wide amnesty and evacuation agreement the goverment offers everyone.
also over half a million syrians returned to their homes in govt controlled areas from abroad this year but you ignore that because youre biased.

because namecalling and LARPing doesent keep the region stable and at peace.
if you understood anything of whats going on down there you wouldnt be asking that question, and you wouldnt be waiting for my anwser just to sperg out and call me a dictatorship supporter like some western liberal faggot.

not in countries that have a spine.

Moving the goalposts m8.

Whats stable about a quasi fascist state? You act as if such governmentas aren't rifed with contradictions. The fact that the populace dislikes and distrusts the government so little is pretty evidentary of it's ability to bring stability. I know people kurds who've fought with the YPG and it's not as if they don't have ties to the region.

*so much

im not moving golaposts. and according to replies you were replying to this one
and im not him.

anyway my point stands


tell me about one govermnt that doesent have that

govt areas in syria are returning to life before the war succesfuly if youre not following

and do they represent the majority of the regional population?
its as if i said that whatever some SSNP militiamen said is the only way to go for the region.
think rationally about what the majority of the population in syria wants right now.

Syria before the war had issues with instability and unrest. Simply look at the qamishli uprising for evidence of this. The syrian state is still a capitalist one, so there's all the contradictions that come with that, and on top of that it's also ethnically prejudiced which the very small alawite minority having muh privileged positions in society. If DFSNS was not considered to be a better alternative for many people then they would have not fled there in the first place. I think what the majority of people want is not the reestablishment of an oppressive status quo but the creation of a socially just society, one that DFSNS has been delivering so far and the Syrian government has not

So then you reject the idea that US bases are never up for negotiation then?

if there was a reuters article where a supposed top level syrian gov official condemned it, you'd all be correctly wary. wait for more sources to corroborate/deny rather than judge hastily.

in some cases. youre retarded if you think the world works on a on/off 1/0 principle. spineless puppet states have little to no chance to stand up to US hegemoney.
but authoritian homogenous states with a frimly centralised and strict top-down control (such as central-asian republics, turkey and african countries) do.

so whats your point, i want to hear it.

pdf related
syria was always a target of the CIA, muslim brotherhood and Mossad.
if it were as unstable as youre trying to portay it it would have been on the level of somalia decades ago.
all states are capitalist to some degree, genious.
you mean like every single country in the region?
youre playing that card like theres no others. millions already fled to govt controlled areas both from terrorist occupied territories and from abroad. checkmate dumbass.
the majority of people is happy that they can return to their normal lives and doesent really care about some political and macroeconomic bullshit that the western media tries to point out is the reason behind the war. even the amnestied terrorists are happy that the goverment has given them another chance and many of them join new goverment militias to show their graditute and repention.
the war has only acted as a catalyser for populism and the cult of personnality for assad. the hardcore terrorists, their supporters and families now have to choose either between continuing to fight or to flee to idlib or rojava.
theres also alot of people fleeing from turkey controlled areas in northern Al-bab that flee because the living conditions there are shit and youre probably mainly thinking of them.
DFSNS isnt at a defacto war with half of the world (but is supported by it) and doesent have a real functioning state to take care of.

Oh shit. DemCon spreads to Iraq

I don't see how CIA attempts at destabilization invalidates events like the qamishli uprising which were definitely due to ethnically prejudiced policies and nothing to do with outside involvement. Indeed all states are capitalistic, and therefore all states are fundamentally unstable to a certain degree, but with DFSNS I see the unique opportunity to transcend beyond capitalism to a socialist system. It will take time, but the potential is definitely there. There are around 2.8 million IDPs in Syria. Over 2 million of them are in DFSNS, an overwhelming majority. Are people happy that they no longer have to fear destruction? Of course. Are they happy to be living under a government which is not democratic or socially just? I doubt it. DFSNS is not receiving the billions in aid, both military and financial, that the Syrian government is receiving. But unlike the Syrian government, they do have the burden of dealing with the vast majority of IDPs which are mostly women and children. DFSNS at most receives around 500 million in military equipment and nothing in terms of economic aid, and this is in a region which is drastically underdeveloped (intentionally underdeveloped by the Syrian government). With all this in mind, people like their chances better there then under the syrian government.



the riots were a result of clashes between football firms and were influenced by the (ethnic) destabilisation of iraq with the US invasion and the fall of saddam.
in case you havent noticed (or werent born yet) there was an ethnic shitstorm in iraq in those years that influenced the entire region.
but the relation between the two is largely irrelevant. whats your point
on the count of millions that will die and suffer in the coming decades as a result of the partitioning of syria, instead of actually doing anything in YOUR home country?
youre pathetic.
they dont care about your shitty standards. theere are rallies in syria every day to express support for the regeime and the disdain for the terrorists and foregein powers that support them.
even the new opposition that is being formed by syrians in the parliament has stated that the way regeime change was attempted in 2011 was just wrong.
irrelevant. you have no clue how an actual state functions and what it takes to keep it running.
its not just some community based on trust, common interest and gunpoint.
the DFSNS has taken in more refugees than the goverment? you better have some source for that.
the SDF is supported (including economically) by western goverments and "NGO"s, theres no secret about that. and who sais people like their chances better that way? some twotter account?

The initial riots sure, but the destruction of the local Ba'atist office and the insurrection that came after was not about a football game. Kurds have been ethnically discriminated against in the region for decades, being denied citizenship and all the benefits that come with it. DFSNS has no desire to go to war with the syrian government, or to even abolish it completely from their territory. They do not desire ethnic cleansing, and indeed their policies are more friendly to different ethnicities. It's not the same situation as Kosovo and the Balkans. If there is bloodshed, it will be because the Syrian government will try to abolish the DFSNS by force. Authoritarian states orchestrate state sponsored rallies constantly. This is not evidentiary of public support anymore then state sponsored media reporting favorably on the government is evidentiary of public support. DFSNS has the same responsibilities of the syrian state, which is the protection of it's people and the securing of their welfare. Correction, there is currently 6.6 million IDPs in Syria, I misread the number of children for the totality of IDPs.
Unfortunately, I can't seem to find exact figures on where the other 4 million are located. If you have that information please do share it. In regards to being supported by NGOs, they are receiving aid for IDPs from the UN. This is hardly the equivalent of the amount of support the Syrian government has been receiving.

in case you ahve a disability that allows you to read only half a paragraph, i said that the riots were later fueled by ethnic tensions that spilled from iraq

oh really? this isnt a partitioning of a US enemy country under some ethnic pretext enforced by US military presence?

im sure provocative US strikes have nothing to dow with violence right

so noone supports the evil syrian regeime and everybody loves the democratic US allies, just like CNN told us. got it.

which they are doing with regeime built infrastructure and norms. then they just change a few laws and flags and thats it. with US support no less.
in goverment and rebel controlled areas, incase you cant put 2 and 2 together. and considering the goverment controlled syria obviously has a bigger population and landmass, the majority of them are there.
theres alot more aid coming in than that. theUS and EU are staunch supporters of the SDF project and fund them aswell. and i dont know what wall youre trying to go trough with you "muh aid to syria", ofcourse its allies are going to send aid to it. it has a many times bigger and complex inftastructure and economy than some SDF. it also has plenty times more enemies trying to destroy it.

Holy shit. How pathetic can you guys more get?

You aren't really better than Holla Forumstards acting like this, you know that right?

Ethnic tensions existed before Iraq for reasons I've stipulated already. DFSNS came about not as an ethnically exclusive ethnostate but as first and foremost a group to defend the area from ISIS and to ensure the well being of all people within the area regardless of ethnicity. This remains the case. The DFSNS isn't fighting the Syrian government and has no plans to fight them. I'm sure plenty of people support the Syrian government, but mostly the alawite minority which is predominately favored by it. DFSNS is in the process of rebuilding most of the infrastructure since it was destroyed in battles with ISIS as well as developing the area beyond that. The IDPs are not necessarily located in the Syrian governments territory, especially since many IDPs are those who are fleeing the Syrian government. If you have evidence of financial support to DFSNS in the billions then I urge you to share it with us.

Accepting help from Saudi Arabia and US is not the same as condoning them. Ideologically the DFSNS is enemies with both of them, and the acceptance of aid is simply do to the fact that not accepting aid would either mean destruction by ISIS, Turkey, or the Syrian government. Given those options I don't blame them for looking for handouts.

Rojava is set to become the fucking communist Taliban mark my fucking words tankies.

H- hello fellow proles! Don't you want to stick up for oppressed nations everywhere? Biji SDF, biji Israel!

Kek, nice OC.

US had diplomatic and military ties with Assad less than a decade ago. And you're assuming that America can fully control the kurdish movement when they can't even set up a successful proxy army in Syria right now.

not surprising in the least

Ignore. They're just butthurt that their dead tendencies will never catch on again.

lmfao, clearly Bookchinism will lead world revolution

DFSNS is the only thing leftism really has going for it at the moment. I don't know why you're cheering for it to fail

no, its a thing that kurds have going on at the moment. you western hipsters just circlejerk on the internet and do absolutely nothing about it.
even worse, you promote foregein policy which you claim to protest and conform to your local authority like caddle.

all FSA, alqaeda and ISIS were succesful proxy armies and would have downed the regeime if russia and iran hadnt interviened.
and in case youre not following the situation, the US already dropped the "assad must go" policy and is now counting on partitioning and illegaly occupying syria.


No, Cuba, DPRK, Naxalites, Kerala, PFLP, and many other groups and countries fighting for socialism are what "leftism" has going for it.

SDF is what the USA and Saudi Arabia have going for them.

America stood no chance of ever controlling Al Qaeda or ISIS.
And the kurds are willing to work with Assad to fight ISIS, you're point?

pic related, right?

Uneducated anti-spiritualists who killed tens of millions in internal repressions, the US would have been better off supporting Europe in WW2

DFSNS isn't solely populated or lead by Kurds.Understanding their reasons for accepting aid is not the same thing as supporting US foreign policy.

lmao, Cuba opens up small opportunities for co-ops and independent business, both which exist to a much higher extent in "Rojava," and suddenly it's not one of the sole remaining beacons of communism. KYS.

Baseless accusations of "hereditary monarchy" with no recognition of the democratic systems in place.

Better than Rojava.

More relevant than Rojava.

At least they're against Israel, unlike Rojava.

WEIRD how Bookchinites suddenly become purists when talking about every other attempt at communism today, yet won't allow any criticism of their imperialist project…

Cuba was completely willing to have trade relations with the US, which put's it on similar "socialist" standing as China. Kim Jong Un was almost completely unknown until his rise to power, and you want us to believe the people chose him as their leader, and that it had nothing at all to do with his last name? This is delusional beyond belief. If kerala is a shining example of socialism, then by your standards so is Denmark and Sweden. Naxalites have been loosing territory for years and are too busy being sectarian and fighting one another. Also, way to be logically fallacious throughout your entire post. Tu quoque

holy SHIT Bookchinites are dishonest, slanderous scum. please fuck off forever.

Its honestly crazy too me how this obscure as fuck, even within the american left, writer from Vermont influenced a legit revolution just a few years after his death. No matter what you think of Bookchin or Rojava, he has influenced the international left of the 21st century perhaps more then any contemporary Marxist or Anarchist.
Sidenote: anyone have a link to that letter that Bookchin sent Öcalan? I cant seem to find it.

Not an argument
based kurds guys

Barzani's thugs and nothing more.

Now the PKK totally independent leftist militias are organising the militias of Sinjar into demconfed: even my assadist expert mate of mine says that is what is happening here.

Oh and the KRG are attacking the Assyrians too: so expect them to suddenly start flying red flags too in the next couple of months.

all Rojava soldiers should be murdered


all they had to do is tunnel arms and money into them and provide them with intelligence.
and when the going got tough US specops helped evacuate key personnel.
if it was in US interest, there would be no nusra or ISIS.

to make a conflict in the near future even more inconvinient…
…which will allow the US to continue its occupation.

theres no meaning in vocal support or symbolism. the world goes on in practical terms. and DFSNS is the last good piece of the pie the US has in the region


im sure a thing called embargo has nothing to do with it

because you live in the west and just swallow whatever CNN breastfeeds you.

the two are looked up to by most of europe but not mimicked because of the neoliberal tendencies in the world.

well it seems theyre not an important US asset like a certain other group then.

also adress that guys last line in red.

nobody in europe heard of him with an exception of a few edgy teenagers that started spamming YPG stickers on public places in 2017.
if youre trying to build a cult of personnality to justify DFSNS its not gonna work.

He still inspired an actual Revolution. Even if you hate Rojava and Bookchin, that has to account for something.

the revolution was inspired by a longlasting ethnic strive for autonomy, and even if he did, thats still far from the "international left".
think twice before you write something.

literally inspiring leftists internationally but oh no that's not good enough

are you sure?
anarchists and rioters have been smashing cornershop windows for decades.
besides them the only thing he is inspiring is some NEETs that circlejerk on the internet and do nothing.

Bookchin hated smashies and smashies hate him.
Common, you can do better than this.

at what? i already refuted your statement which you have no grounds for in the first place.


What is this Holla Forums tier meme.

Oh shit son.

theres is a large NDF pocket in hassakah tho. and another one further northeast

So trade relations are now justified due to a previous lack of them? Did you hear of him before his rise to power? There is nothing special about kerala, it has the same kind of socdem policies that most Scandinavian countries have. Naxalites would probably be doing a lot better if it were not for the sectarian infighting inherent to M-L groups, and your poor use of tu quoque doesn't dismiss that

Is there any evidence this besides a twitter post made by someone I've never heard of before?

"THe Forgotten Fighters" - Report on "terrorist" organizations PKK and YPG from Britain
of war crimes is morally dubious, displacing onto foreign populations the risks of
their misconduct, to say nothing of the danger these individuals expose themselves
to, which the government should try to prevent. Beyond these moral considerations
are the security threats from returnees. One risk is that they contribute to the PKK’s
criminal-terrorist activities. Allowing European left-wing terrorist organisations to
acquire training and experience in urban warfare from the PKK, as well as to forge
transnational connections and to recruit among YPG volunteers, is deeply undesirable.
The potential for such recruits to be drawn into lone-actor terrorism, whether individual
or directed by a foreign terrorist organization, has to be taken seriously.
Yeah, I think the Reuters "reconciliation" article is bullshit, the British are prepared to handle YPG fighter returnees as literally ISIS

if you lived in the real world youd understand why Cuba would want to improve relations with the US in the fields of trade
not an argument. Scandinavian socialism is still doing better than neoliberalism in the rest of europe.
doesent adress my point in any way.
where did i do that exactly?
or are you just spewing big words to sound smart?

kek is that pisspiggranddad?

yeah. wonder what he is doing now?

probably still training.

he was taking part in the berkeley riots and some other shit during the spring

I got you pham.
You gotta scroll down quite a bit to find the docs.

So is just "doing better" all that's necessary for you to support them?
That sounds very reformist and not Marxist at all.

I understand their reasons for having trade relations, but that doesn't mean it doesn't effect their socialist credentials or really make them any better then china. I seriously doubt you did hear about him but if you want to be intellectually dishonest I can't really stop you. I mean if you want to be a succdem and say that denmark is a shining example of socialism and somehow better then the DFSNS, which has taken much larger leaps at reducing capital accumulation and towards a more centralized production, then fine. But I seriously doubt anyone on here would take you seriously. Your point was that it's entirely the fault of the US or something, and not the naxalites own failings at praxis, and that I'm being hypocritical for pointing this out because the DFSNS is getting limited support from the US and other NATO allies. This is a cop out if there ever was one

could you be more specific to what line in my post youre responding to? my Mindreader license expired two days ago.

This the letter I wanted to find. Real shame they never met. I wonder how Bookchin is regarded in Rojava? Is his stuff well know, or do people mostly just learn about Communalism through Öcalan?

i dont know, ive never tried to run a country on a small tropical island with limited resources while under embargo from a superpower literally a boatride away from my coast.
anyone that gets his information on "the eastern bloc" anywhere else than western MSM and social media can come across him atleast once in his reading.
sorry for not being a burger with a comicly limited world wiev.
i was just advocating the nordic countries because you were shitting on them to lower the standards enough to make DFSNS look good.
and youre still doing it.
wrong. my point is that naxalites or whatever would be making alot better if they had US backing and coordination, like rojava.
what the fuck does that even mean? any support is limited. either bureocratically or logistically. just because you put some word before "support" it wont make it "not totally a support"

Excerpts of Bookchin's work is on the ideology courses for all YPG recruits.

PKK guerillas would probably be more aware of him though as they just chill in the mountains a lot of the time and read and are thus more learned. There was a clip of a YJA STAR guerilla reading the ecology of freedom in some french documentary on PKK.

You've gone from stating cuba is somehow a better example of socialism then DFSNS to making excuses for them not being socialist enough. Beyond hearing that he existed as one of the sons of the previous Kim I seriously doubt you knew anything about him, certainly nothing that would qualify him as an adequate leader, or that he would rise to power for any other reason then his last name. This whole conversation started when you insited that kerala and other groups were more socialist then DFSNS when in reality kerala is just another sucdem state, certainly not qualifying them as a standard bearer for a socialist future. Which Naxalite group would benefit, considering that again their busy fighting each other at them moment.

ISIS are the worst larpers.

I have debunked this previously, this will never, ever happen.

At least, the SDF won't.

The PKK has much more potential due to geography. Qandil is extremely mountainous and just a few PKK can evade detection, capture, or death. This leads to a Vietnam like scenario, with the PKK being the best at maneuvering the mountains with popular support.

Only the Afrin area has mountains that are significant, and it is filled with arabs and non-supporters of the SDF.

Flatlands areas which are the majority of the SDF are completely indefensible from airstrikes and UAV detection. They could easily be sieged and destroyed in the US really really wanted them dead, or Turkey for that matter.

This movement in the North of Syria, which has been spurred by the US, might even be bad for the KCK in the long term. The tens of thousands of Turkish Kurds in the north of Syria are easier and less effective targets as their combatant role is drastically different to the guerilla PKK. It might even long term be easier for the US or Turkey in this regard, as the impossible to nab guerrillas can now be targeted more easily. Additionally, Turkey is constructing a massive wall blocking off Northern Syria from Turkey, so returning is difficult - Qandil has a mountainous, porous border which is impossible to track.

If you wanted to join and be a revolutionary, you are much more effective in Qandil than you are in Syria. PKK can be the Taliban with its huge domestic support, but not the YPG. According to documentaries, 20% of DFSNS support Assad, and the local Communists in Syria support Assad over YPG (the Turkish support PKK, though).

TL;DR - PKK>YPG, if you want to set aside your life for this movement, join the PKK and not the YPG if you do not fear loss of citizenship or terrorist status in the west.

Arguably the best chances for PKK to expand it's power is through the DFSNS. People need more then a guerilla army, they need groups that change the actual material conditions within their area

They have to expand their power into non-mountainous areas by definition if they need to expand but again the geography is suboptimal

Still hope for the best, but just make sure your defenses aren't compromised for the more important Qandil
They have suffered a lot of attrition from ISIS
lets hope it was worth it for them to do this rather than save their numbers
Hopefully the experience and the new Kurd, Arab, and internationalist volunteers and groups make up for the losses and can propel them forward, not to mention the new attained resources/land.

Seems like they stand to gain more recruits then what they've lost. As far as I'm aware, DFSNS almost always gets thousands of new recruits for every new land they liberate. As a side note, it's pretty ridiculous that people ITT still accuse the DFSNS of having permanent US bases when in the OP Salih clearly states there are no deals or plans to have them and that they are all temporary at the moment.

Join the Revolution

I applied but never heard anything back. Honestly though, I couldn't just abandon the people that need me here either

Fucking YouTube.

Is the YPG formally at war with Turkey? If not, are they formally designated as terrorists by the Turkish government?

where exactly did i say that?

noone knew shit about syrian kurds either until hipsters started spreading pentagon psyops on twitter

he was groomed for leadership, and in a way that there was no internal politial threat of a powerstruggle, which would enable the US to go full retard again.
no, i expected chingchong from seul to Kim2

where did i say that dumbass?

it's pretty ridiculous that people ITT still accuse the DFSNS of having permanent US bases when in the OP Salih clearly states there are no deals or plans to have them and that they are all temporary at the momen

Salih is head of the PYD

Isis just took back territory from the SAA

Not surprising really. SAA has a long history of incompetency in this war as well as having alt-right greek fascist militias fighting with them

Didn't the literally run away from no one in the Golan Heights a few decades ago because they thought it was a trap?

Haven't heard of that tbh, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.


I hope Erdogan kills all of you, dogs.

Turkish revolution when?

does it make a difference? in practical terms ofcourse, noone gives a shit about macroeconimics and idealism in that war

SAA sure did alot without US backing


lets be entirely fair here; russia and hezbollah played a huge role

Don't forget Iran

Why is there so much fake news about Rojava? Every month there is at least one story that turns out to be complete bullshit and so many fall for it.

Well there are tons of groups with an interest in harming Rojavas Reputation

so what will happen after Raqqa? Will they push to Deir ez-Zor or ?

I hope they push away the turkish shitstain between afrin and manbij

Prostests going on now in Rojava against an education curriculum, with the PYD arresting teachers that refuse it. Wtf could be so controversial about an education curriculum

well if it preaches secularism or things that negate Islam it's understanble that some people are gonna be a bit fannyached.

Maybe something todo with nationalism can't forget that there are still many Barzani tier fags within Rojava



It's because they want to establish a kurdish language curriculum alongside arab. Some are making accusations that arab isn't being taught but i haven't seen anything to sunstantiate that. There is a more pressing issue of arabs having limited access to voting for the highest tier of government, excuse being that manbij and Raqqa have to be integrated into the system first. I think they're making a mistake in that regard

What do you mean by this? Afaik every ethnicity is granted 2 positions on every council, 1 for each sex. -thousands-of-arabs-excluded-from-elections-in-syria’s-kurdish-majority-north/
al-Ghamar Arabs can vote in local elections but not on the federal level currently, the reason being that their presence there is a result of imperialist policies. I think its dumb and short sighted personally.

It does like something that could have longer repercussions in terms of stability in a multiethnic society. Whether or not they're there as a result of Arabization policies by the Assad regime.

ISIS are annihilating SAA along the Euphrates atm.

pkk1978 is so based tbh. i imagine all the PKK cadres are like him. they'll never let rojava drift away from its revolutionary vision.

Yeah like I said it's a pretty dumb decision. Hopefully they'll come to their senses sooner rather than later

pkk1978 is definitely /ourguy/. It's a shame the BO would probably ban him if he posted on here

just as the US did with SDF

post some chart then explaining and categorising all that alphabet soup, because it all still looks like soup in the end

"reliable sources" say alot of things

in terms of air support sure

Just like when the SDF signed an agreement that would make them hold US airbases forever which turns out to just to be some fake news originating from some random local news site with nothing to back it up and is denied by both the US and the SDF anyway.
But it's okay because it validates the world view of some MLs on a Cambodian Basket weaving forum.

Who could have imagined :^)

Apparently a few MIT agents tried to assassinate Cemîl Bayik (one of the most important people in the PKK) but were caught in the act and were kidnapped by PKK and brought away to Qandil.

Should this concern us?

Big SAA gains today.

Wonder what they will do with them? Prisoner exchange?

What's with the assblasted tankies

read this, it's all bluster from Turkey

same as russia

forever is a strong word, dont try to use slippery slope here

are you sure about that?

you mean like all those twitter accounts?

then it must be true



Russia's providing a lot more than just air support m8. I can get in this argument for the billionth time but it's not like you'll ever see the truth of this.

same as america


some reddit thread ranting on about the same crap as here minus liberals calling everyone else tankies
what do you want me to read exactly?
the UN is a stranded whale when it comes to syria, while i dont see anything that would force the US to leave


military personnel =/= fighting troops
the US has also used thousands of personnel to keep their SDF show going

syria didnt pop up in 2016 you know

and material, logistic and military specops help. and not recently. the moment the US saw potential inthem, which is coencidentialy also the moment they started scoring big victories against ISIS
Article on the struggles related to the embargo from about a month

The US has a thousand, not thousands. About 10 thousand Russian personal alone, not counting the Iranians forces and the militias like Hezbollah which most likely constitute thousands more. But lets keep pretending like the support is equivalent and the SAA is a more competent forces despite being constituted by mostly conscripts

Wait a sec, are you talking about the billions in American aid to Syria before the civil war, when Assad and his family were still busy militarily occupying their neighbors (especially Jordan and Lebanon) and executing assassination plots against those countries' leaders?

I honestly get the impression sometimes that assadcucks on this board are just Holla Forumsyps pretending to be us.

It's been that way for decades, they're called MLs.

I'm not saying that the lack of evidence requires you to drop all scepticism of Rojava, It's just that if you want to be critical; try a little harder with allegations. If you want to criticize the SDC for, say, the abduction of political opposition leaders then that's fine but don't just make up bullshit.

Former US ambassador in Syria says the kurds are fucked lmoa.


Niggas gonna get court martialed.

If they could have chosen to stay they probably would have

you know i completely agree with your point with the greentext, as it xan be put in any context not only rojava. and im not criticising rojava on some miniscule cherrypicking things to make it seem bad, and i havent heard of this kidnapping thing youre talking about. also you meant SDF not SDC right

occupying lebanon was a good thing tho, it was keeping israel on a leash. and the US aid went there as a mean of bribing assad into becoming another US friendly autocratic puppet state like jordan, UAE and so on.

*seriously worrying*

Tribal meeting ended supporting federalism


I'm sure the Lebanese people, especially the Muslim majority, were grateful for this opportunistic conquestanti-imperialist intervention. So grateful in fact, that they spontaneously assassinated their own elected politicians for anti-Syrian tendencies.

the biggest muslim faction in lebanon are is shia, the sunnis are less than 27%, while the rest are druze, christians, assyrians, etc.
so no you dropped the ball on that one bacause you dont know shit you mongoloid.
they were. so much so that thousands went to fight in syria to return the favor infact.
cant make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. it was worth it to keep israeli and US influence out of lebanon.

Euphrates Shield rebels been firing at US Special Forces lmao.

are they anti imperialists now?

these Sheikh Apo posters that YPG are doing for Arabs are fucking hilarious

Middle easterns are just tacky like that.

Lebanese Muslims include both Shia and Sunni? No shit.

Recent estimates of Lebanon's population put it at 54% Moslem (27% Shia, 27% Sunni) 40% Christian (21% Maronite, 8% Eastern Orthodox, 5% Melkite Catholic, 1% Protestant, 6% other), and 6% Druze.

I'm sure the SDF appreciates that observation, too.

Ayy lmao. Sort of akin to "black jesus" tbh

I'm glad to see this. I was a bit worried when i heard they would be leaving some arabs out of the "parliamentary" elections

I have no idea why you aren't all banned by BO yet. Rojava is an imperialist ally. Why should I support this US puppet?

Roo confirmed for retard on Rojava.


And nobody was surprised

could one say this is racist?

Turkey's Afrin dream now firmly ded as Russia cements its place in Afrin. Surprised Jaysh al Thuwar agreed to this as theyre FSA tho.

FSA have proven to be completely unreliable as allies long ago. This isn't that surprising.

What do you mean by racist?

because it's painting a whole race as exhibiting certain characteristics (zionism) based off a picture.

If you did this tweet with Arabs and Al Qaeda or something it would be rightfully called racist.

Ya know, if Holla Forums weren't entirely composed of room temperature ⅠQ illiterates incapable of understanding Holla Forums's board culture, BO's spergitude would be incredibly easy for false flaggers to burn the board to the ground with.

you really are retrded.
first you say
and when i enlighten you that shias are also muslim you jump to wikipedia for damage control and copypasta some shit from there to appear you know something.
so does the CIA

JaT jumped ship to the SDF a while ago I'm pretty sure.

oh yeah they did. but they still fly the FSA flag and would count themselves as rebels so I imagined they might have a problem with Russia.

You seem a little down on Syrian history. Are you aware that Syria intervened specifically to bolster Lebanon's Christian-minority-dominated government? Did you notice you were the only one who brought up Shiites for whatever inscrutable reason?


Notice how all his responses are quick, emotional impulses?

That's Roo's essential trick whenever he debates. Him being such a masculine guy, he uses force in his voice to give off the impression of authority when really he's just spewing out emotion (anger). He's really, really stupid, wouldn't know theory to save his life.

aw shit the commander of Manbij Military Council has been killed in Raqqa :(

In nicer news

Good to see high levels of participation in the communal system.


roo throws another tantrum.

the whole point of the syrian action was to keep out israeli and western influence, not because some "muh christianity" dumbass. and when you screeched about muslims not being happy you apparently dont know half of lebanese muslims are shias and will back syria against the west anytime.
what are you gonna do next, feel sorry for alqaeda that popped up in lebanon?

Will Turkey move in from the north so they can take land before a peace is signed between USA backed rebels and the government, ending their window of opportunity?

Well that's basically the best way to open a united front between the kurds and the government, so it would be really dumb, but they still might (after all, Turkish insistence on basically excluding all Kurdish groups from their FSA support was what pushed all the kurds to the YPG.)

Hardcore tbh.

Absolutely based. The thing is, I think everyone here can relate to how he felt. Everything becomes so much clearer once you start breaking out of liberal ideology

It's amazing how this guy is starting to get post-ironic support from tankies. Even if I was a tankie I would recognise this guy as a complete nutcase.

More of this, less of denying arabs the right to vote pls

Yeah that was pretty dumb of them. Not sure what the status of that is currently



[Ed.: The upcoming elections are divided into three rounds. The first round of voting, on September 22, will be for the leaders of all local communes. The second round, on November 3, will be for representatives to the town, city and regional councils. The third and final round, on January 19, will be for the People’s Democratic Council. Al-Ghamar Arabs are barred from the third round of voting.] -thousands-of-arabs-excluded-from-elections-in-syria’s-kurdish-majority-north/

Yeah I've read it. I was the person that posted that article originally. I haven't heard any updates on this past that article, so I'm just going to assume they haven't changed anything

Absolutely beautiful.

They split the pocket into two. Fucking Amazing. ISIS BTFOed.

Someone on Twitter PLEASE help me respond to Roo.

Only three schools? Assuming each houses 200 students then that's only 600 children.
I doubt that there's only 600 Syriac children in the cizre canton.

Its no use, dude is thick as a log.
I did reply with two tweets just in case someone not as retarded sees them.


Apparently the SYrian gov will send a delegation to Manbij for the commander of the Manbij Military Council's funeral which is v interesting

Source on this? It's not terribly surprising. The Syrian government now has to battle for legitimacy against this new dual power structure, after all. Playing nice only makes sense

So tell me how this doesn't end with Rojava either capitulating to the Syrian state or being destroyed.

Explain to me why those are the only two options. It appears at the moment that they're stable enough to continue existing and the Syrian government isn't really in a position to destroy or force capitulation.

capitulation to the syrian state is good. destroying the syrian state would be worse for the workers of the world than the failure to establish a kurdish one.

m8 those aren't the choices.

Why would any of their neighbors allow a Kurdish state to exist? Assuming they live up to their anti-capitalist pretensions, why would the bourgeoisie allow such a project to succeed?

It's not a kurdish state for one, and this whole argument is in essence one against socialism in general. Why would the bourgeois allow any socialist group to exist? The answer is simply that they are capable and do or are incapable and don't, and which one it is has yet to be determined.

Anyone have the copy pasta that goes like this.

It get’s better.

what wwere those clashes a day or two ago between syrian and kurd militias in the northeast near the turkish border

aparently the one assyrian that received seriozs injuries (shot in neck) is in stable condition now, and over a dozen kurds were arrested and beaten. probably just some ethnic sperging when kurds in the syrian zone tought theyd handle it with backing vy the kurd militias

this thread is dead