Is this seriously what the left has to offer in comedy?

youtu.be/rRgkC8Rpy3E

is this seriously what the left has to offer in comedy?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=WWFaG_7RySI
youtube.com/watch?v=5ffZgq3yvB0
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative
usworker.coop/home/
institute.coop/
community-wealth.org/content/worker-cooperatives
youtube.com/watch?v=Qn16DsftSjI
youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
youtube.com/watch?v=ILQepXUhJ98
youtube.com/watch?v=m9-R8T1SuG4
youtube.com/watch?v=fwMukKqx-Os
democrats.org/about/our-party
democrats.org/party-platform
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

MDE sucked by Sam has funny standup
youtube.com/watch?v=WWFaG_7RySI

*liberals

you pretend liberals don't appropriate marxist values even though most express it openly

Not a thing

yeah nothing is a thing dude

There's no such thing as "Marxist values".

Correct you are. It is.

Delete your shit bait faggot

wow what an original, insightful post, OP. How long did it take you to think of? Five seconds?

lol

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not to mention being a liberal today highly correlated with being anti-capitalist unless your thinking of the liberals of the 19th century which are irrelevant to the conversation

except it fucking wasn't.

Read pic related.
The socialism liberalism you're referring to is a subset of liberalism as a whole, which does lie on the right of the spectrum. A leftist attitude on social issues does not negate this fact.

social liberalism* wew

that's a literal screenshot from leftypol, give me a citation from a polscience thing that isn't led by a left winger

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Yes it is. Why do you think the history of political philosophy is irrelevant in discussions about political philosophy?

What do you want me to cite?
Why does this distinction matter? If left wingers don't believe liberals to be left wing then by definition they can't be left wing. And why would a right winger care to make such a distinction?

Anyway, as you're getting together what exactly you want me to fetch you, I'll tell you this: Sargon of Akkad calls himself a liberal. Do you think he's left wing?

No.

Marxism has no inherent values of its own.

Marxism is largely a philosophy (historical and dialectical materialism) and a critique of capitalist political economy.

While ultimately everyone's politics are influenced by their personal values, Marx doesn't argue from a values standpoint, partially why Marx and Engels separated their Scientific Socialism from the more values and ethics oriented Utopian Socialism.

What concerned Marx and Engels were the material conditions and economic relations that defined the social structure, not any dialogue on morals, ethics and values. In fact, their position was that the latter was largely a result of the former, and, at best, played second fiddle in the formation of society.

That is a value and politically even more so.

I'm asking you to cite something outside of your torture chamber which my argument has relied upon. The idea that only anti-capitalism is left wing is again completely unintellectual.

Hugbocks*

Wew lad.

I never appealed to authority, please reread

No, not really, unless not wanting to be fucked is a value, which is the primary "value" of Marxism.

defending anti-capitalism as a facet for self respect and competence ignores the fact that there are very few socialist small business owners

Why aren't liberals funny anymore? At least Jon Stewart could make me giggle.

There weren't many abolitionist slave-owners or republican kings either.

Okay. Left wing according to wikipedia:
A social liberal indeed then left-wing as far as social issues are concerned, but by seeking to uphold capitalism then you would limit your support of egalitarianism because inequality and hierarchy are intrinsic to a capitalist state.

For that matter, there don't seem to be many atheist priests.

Your wrong the left is funny.

youtube.com/watch?v=5ffZgq3yvB0

Hey buddy.

Do you even know where the term "left" comes from? It refers to something specific.

small business owners are the knowingly oppressive capitalists that could easily communalize their business with the very few people they have considering it would be a much more efficient system for all members.

yeah leftism is politics for poor uneducated people

wtf is this supposed to mean? Socialism isn't supposed to be for small-business owners and haute-bourgeoisie but for workers.

Capitalists have their interests looked after-well enough by the establishment as it is and the dominant ideologies of the bourgeoisie suit them just fine.

Tbf Jeff Bezos wanted to become a communist and overthrow the system, I don't see anything in Marxism that says it would be immoral for him to try to do that just because he isn't a worker. But the class interests of the vast majority of capitalists is pretty much the reason why any kind of "conversion" like that is exceedingly rare.

Also, competence and self-respect? Its not about feeling good about your job (and I do my job well enough thank you…) but about ending the exploitation and alienation of the working class.

Yes.

But they don't really give a shit about their employees and are usually outright hostile. The most labor abuses are committed by small business tyrants, bar none.

if we only we had some way to compete with the plethora of popular and funny right-wing comedians

lol the analogy was that with the amount of pain that is suffered under capitalism as a universal system you don't see much of these same people doing rigorously painful things that take self respect like setting up communal small buisnesses to advance their interests.

It refers specifically to the way the French National Assembly was organized. The supporters of the Revolution were seated to the left of the president, with the supporters of the king to his right. The term was used especially for the more radical of the French republicans, especially the members of the Jacobin Club (who believed in an open, classless society and used a red flag as their symbol)

Take a wild guess as to which movement is generally regarded as the ideological descendant of the Jacobins?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative

usworker.coop/home/
institute.coop/
community-wealth.org/content/worker-cooperatives

Fuck you, the left has George Carlin.

youtube.com/watch?v=Qn16DsftSjI
youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
youtube.com/watch?v=ILQepXUhJ98
youtube.com/watch?v=m9-R8T1SuG4

He was also anti-SJW, you'd think Holla Forums would love him.
youtube.com/watch?v=fwMukKqx-Os

Yes because all small businesses are worker cooperatives

Liberals lol

Why the fuck would a socialist want to establish a non-cooperative business?

That would be the Girondins.

how did someone take Sam Hyde and manage to make him even less funny?

Again conflating liberalism so that you can feel 'woke' when most liberals agree with you

The Girondins were the "centrists" that opposed the more radical elements of the revolution while still ostensibly being republicans. This is the ideological thread most libs today draw from.

The fact that they give lip service to social progressivism is irrelevant. In fact, at its fundamentals, their worldview is much closer to that of your typical right-winger than that of anything notably leftist.

liberalism as we know it today is notably leftist, just because somebody doesn't support shooting down landowners doesn't make them not leftist.

Actually it has become far more right wing than ever before.

you're actually wrong about that, my dude.

Maybe if you're the kind of political illiterate who thinks politics and economics don't matter and it's all just muh culture war bullshit, but then again I think that's an area where the libs would agree with you and why they're firmly in your camp.

You have to be politically illiterate if you don't realize that liberals today aren't actually reactionary and knowingly appropriate marxism and marxist values

What exactly do you figure "marxism" and "marxist values" are and how do you figure liberals are appropriating them?

anti-capitalist philosophy and breakdown of society

Dude stop watching infowars. Neoliberals like Hillary and her clique of idpolers are extremely right wing.

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pick one

muh cultural post modernist marxism

kys

Economic policies also aren't the only determinants whether somebody is left or right wing

You also have to understand that the democratic party and other mainstream liberal movements in Europe like SDP and the labor party is pretty open about being pro-marxist, you have to be in complete denial to not realize this

Tell me what exactly you think capitalism is and how exactly you figure liberals are against it.

Literally no one supports this, get Holla Forums's dick out of your throat.

or have a rudimentary grasp of basic political history

please go away

do you actually know what Marxism is beyond Holla Forums infographs, or are you just talking out your ass? because most liberals don't give a shit about Marx.

I agree with you that the rest of the world largely doesn't see 'Murrican liberals as "leftists," but disagree with your basic criteria. The left/right spectrum is, and has pretty much always been, subject to context. Liberals, in this way, really do constitute the bulk of the American left. This is because the Overton window in the US, especially with regards to economics, has shifted very much to the right.

Historically, we can also see how it relies on context - like, the origin of the left was anti-Monarchists, not anti-capitalists. If we're to say the left opposes any particular thing, the closest we'll get is to say that what the left opposes is hierarchy.

being anti-social conservatism is for support of break down of society today as we know it lol

nice argument dude

Wew there lad.

nonsense and drivel don't deserve arguments

Have you literally not read the up to date manifestos of any european political party? or tried to understand the views of american democrats as we know the party today?

That's a good substitute for not having one at all

Your arguing my point, thanks

Please fuck off and leave

Yes. They're all neoliberal as fuck. Marx would spin in his grave if he knew those sorts of policies were being associated with his name.

you think liberals are marxists. you aren't smart enough to understand anything discussed here

read a fucking book. None of them say anything about removing capitalism, giving the workers democratic control over the means of production, or abolishing wage-labour. I don't know where you get your understanding of Marx's work, but it sure as hell isn't anything with his name on it,

You're incapable of seeing why that's fucking retarded?

Oh yes.

HAHA I never said that, I said the political dichotomy is determined by the organizations that perpetuate themselves, you literally appeal to lefty/pol/ for a dichotomy

The argument was never that I thought it was a bad thing, it was just that these were marxist values that liberals shared which you guys have now shown to perpetuate.

I could literally say the same for you if I wanted to, none of what your saying is an argument t. stefan molyneux

you must read political textbooks from the 1860s, social progressivism is inherently marxist

You project your own countrys clown circus politics unto the rest of the world. We do not have liberals. We do not have ancaps. We do not have white nationalists. We do not have republicans or democrats.

Social conservatism isn't what holds society together. A loss of social conservatism doesn't constitute a breakdown in society.

and we've explained that your perception of "marxist values" is false

why should i respond to your lack of argument with an argument? claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

it holds society TODAY together was the implication

It doesn't do that either.

lol no you haven't you've just put the argument to the sideline in favor of ad hom, explain your arguments against the breakdown of social conservatism if you must

So we don't live in an evil capitalistic socially-hierarchical world? huh.

i'll consider that after you accurately explain what "marxist values" are

society was founded by the enlightenment era
you are reacting and acting against the enlightenment era values in the name of a fabricated fantasy
you are the cancer killing western civilization please hang yourself

I've lived in a European country you delusional scatterbrain

We do, but it isn't social conservatism that makes it that way.

Sure you have.

Yeah that's why all countrys are founded as napoleonicesque empires instead of parliamentary constitutionalism, it's not like things came after the enlightenment that deeply impacted what's considered as western civilization.

Hierarchy is only a symptom of capitalism that it reproduces, in reality the great equality of access provided by the market produces the inequities. The proletariat was expropriated by the bourgeoisie in the pastand is subject to other kinds of injustices that cannot easily be called liberal, sure, but this is not the essential thing because if we started capitalism over with some kind of Year Zero and everyone started with the same level of wealth we'd still inevitably see similar results.

lol nice rebuttal

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Can you tell me what books you're referring to? I want to take a look at them.

the right is better at comedy it seems

democrats.org/about/our-party

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the implication was that you have a very old fashioned view of the political dichotomy which seems to serve as a justification for thinking you're more woke than the common 'liberal'

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democrats.org/party-platform

their party platform is literally centered around the idea of economic fairness

You aren't providing any coherent explanation of how modern progressive liberalism ties into Marx's beliefs.

please stop

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wait Marxism is an attempt to sway away from economic fairness and instead create a caste system? Woah count the far-right in.

yeah we got that

Are you illiterate or purposely trying not to interpret meaning, you know in English grammar there is such thing as two words with the same meaning.

Marxism isn't about "economic fairness"

The goal isn't to create some kind of equal playing field in an otherwise capitalist economy, we believe the workers should seize the means of production and work to abolish commodity production altogether.

I don't even think you know what marxism is lol and I've read the manifesto and Kapital but as somebody who frequents himself as marxist that's pretty sad

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workers owning the means of production is about economic fairness intrinsically you numskull

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would you define marxism for us then? you keep dodging it every time we ask

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it literally says in the leftypol infograph that you've thrown at me that indeed socialism is about citizen equity

tbh I thought the infograph was a fair representation but if I were to describe it in any other way that is indeed intrinsic to the movement it would be twisted out of context

You should have read my whole post.

Marxism doesn't support "economic fairness" in an otherwise capitalist economy. It's about tearing the capitalist system up by the root and establishing a new system where the workers control the means of production and the economy is organized democratically.

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so that's a no then? k

You fucking retard. What I'm saying is that just because someone claims to be in favor of "economic equality" that doesn't inherently make them a Marxist Socialist. The Democrats can say that all they want but what have they actually done to help socialism? Have they organized unions? No. Co-ops? No. They've done nothing but help big corporations and international business while claiming to be helping the workers.

Did the rest just erase everything else it said from your brain?

Yes, to an extent Marxism is about equality, but some lib party wanting some facsimile of equality in a capitalist system are not Marxists.

Yes, I do ignore tired memes.

I mean I assume you have a fair understanding of what marxism already is so I wouldn't define it for you

The workers still own the means of production and the economy is still organized democratically under market socialism.

I never said Democrats were full on Marxian Socialists did I, I said they appropriated Marxists Values

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you got me

which you won't define. or can't

They've been defined not just by me and I've defined them multiple times

Except they don't.

The Democrats only want equality for the bourgeoisie and some half-assed fasimile of le "equal opportunity" meme for everyone else.

could you run it by me just once more?

You seem to be under the impression that any belief in equality of any sort constitutes a "Marxist value"

you must have studied democrat leadership for months as an expert psychologist woah your right all of them have ulterior motives to their own political philosophy

nah belief in economic equality and social belief in equality constitutes that

lurk more

You realize both of those predate Marxism, yes?

not you silly. you've already admitted you have no idea what marxism is

ideologically, in the way we're talking about? nah.

how did I prove that?

I mean are you just gonna not read the argument and say that " You have no understanding of European politics" and then quip again?

please explain what marxism is

It's plain as day that the dems are corporate Shills
It's not some secret just look at what they do when they are in power

with all your staggeringly stupid posts

It doesn't take a genius to see the motivations of the Democratic Party.

The Democratic Party represents a faction of the bourgeoisie that believes that a certain degree of regulation and social welfare is necessary to keep the masses pacified and thus maintain the class system. This is in a similar vein to Keynes who loved the class system and hated the working class, but realized that concessions were necessary to keep the class system going.

This is opposed to the Republicans, the other faction of the bourgeoisie, who are hedonists who want their profits now and as big as possible and screw the social consequences, either believing that social upheaval either won't occur at all or that it can simply be handled by the police state.

In the end, they are both bourgeois parties. Marxism is the antithesis of both of their programs.

no what argument of mine proved that I didn't know what marxism is specifically.

Yes. Both have their roots in the French Revolution, if not before. This was not a conceptualization of Marx, indeed he largely picked up on the idea because he was a bit of a French Revolution fanboy.

you haven't made any sound arguments as they're all founded on your lack of knowing what marxism is

you are so deeply blinded to your own allies through the lens of ideology which is laughable

they literally say that their main purpose in which is equitable to there party manifesto that they strive for economic equality which is the main purpose of marxism under the guise of letting the workers rule themselves.

That's not what a 'specific' is, read again

please define what marxism is

IT'S EVERYTHING I DON'T LIKE YOU FUCKING CUCKS!

either way you've proved both of my points

yeah thats my argument

if you're late to a thread you can read what happened before you came in.

please define what marxism is

Politicians are liars why would you believe them now? Do you believe it when senators say that they are fighting for you? Don't be naive boi

please define what marxism is please im begging you

why won't you?

lol the democrats are SECRETLY right wing

The main purpose of Marxism is the overthrow of capitalism, not "creating equality", though this is one of the benefits of creating equality. Marxism is not values-based idealist philosophy, it's a materialist philosophy. This is one of the reasons why Engels makes a point to distinguish between Utopian Socialism and Scientific Socialism (Marxism).

The Democrats have shown, time and again, that they don't really give a shit about equality in the firs place except for that level of equality that allows for the capitalist system to perpetuate itself. They are not our allies and have even shown that they're more afraid of us than they are of the right. Democrats have even supported Republicans over candidates just moderately to the left of the Democratic party line.

because I don't what marxism is

No, they're openly right-wing.

The Dems can't even handle a moderate socdem like Bernie.

so why do you keep talking about it?

*though this is one of the benefits of overthrowing capitalism

he's not going too as he only knows what 30k a month youtubers told him and is completely aware that the moment he copy and pastes he'll get his ass chewed out but writes this off as semantics he didn't need to know

It's both.

Capitalism is a class-system. The hierarchy is built into its internal logic. Destroying capitalism and destroying the class system are one and the same.

dems are center right
gop is right to far right
right now dem politicians and lawmakers are supporting and fundraising for a republican in florida right now because the democrat candidate supports singlepayer healthcare