Is it over for us? And I don't mean for us only, but also for every radical, from left to right

We'll probably stick around like cockroaches regardless of any catastrophe we might cause, yes.

I mean it probably is if conditions don't end up changing magically.

Edgy

I can feel it in my skin, boyo.

Shit's going down.

electronic surveillance and the security state have already made meaningful resistance impossible, and it's only going to get worse as the technology improves. unless some sort of serious collapse or crisis happens, the conditions that allow the fostering of real movements for change will never be achieved

Do you live in the U.S?

Bullshit, cameras did not stop terrorists and it would not stop millions of angry people.

The Russian military was supposed to stop the October Revolution when the Tsars ordered them to fire on the crowd.

They declined. The rest is history.

stop them from doing what? suicide bombs are not enough to collapse a fucking country.

We already have drones. As armies become more automated, the human element mostly disappears.

No, but what capitalism is doing is enough historically to ensure it's own rapid counter.

Because the amount of suicide bombers can be counted in one hand.

Imagine if there are hundred of suicide bombers going off in a single day.

And? What? You think you can fire drones in a city you've ensured to protect? No, that would just cause more chaos and crossfire.

They will just keep bailing out tho, there would be no collapse until utter globalization

Can't you read more than 4 words at a time or something? Here, I'll walk you through it. You said:
I then noted that we nowadays have robots such as drones, which will only continue to develop in the future. In such a case, there would be no mass of soldiers to refuse to fire on revolutionaries, merely a collection of robots which would do so unquestioningly as long as their operators give the command. This human element that might betray the ruling class mostly disappears. Get it now?

that depends, how high do you think the debt can possible go?

I think the U.S will go down but never collapse (become sort of like Brazil), meanwhile the east rises and enter a new age of an euro-asian alliance

or they could use brainwashing technology like in black mirror.

After October it was mostly useless.

And there currently is no fully automated Drone, and the ethics of that are still largely in question. Things will accelerate faster than you think the military can prepare for an insurrection in their own door step.

I'm saying you can't fire missiles with drones in a city because you'll end up doing more harm than good, killing more civilians than targets. And even then, the difference between civilian and target in such event would be extremely murky.

You would likely have feedback which would just lead to people siding with the insurrection, it's what's always happened in history. Some drones won't change history.

...

The US Government is filled with representatives like pic related currently and you're acting like it's an unsinkable ship. No, it's going down like the Titanic, another unsinkable ship.

Yeah, sure thing

What are you even implying at this point

How juvenile are you to even think that an economy that limps from bailout to bailout can survive long term.

states are not afraid of terrorism. blowing up a bus or train does nothing to disrupt their activities, and nothing to empower the citizenry

it's already impossible to travel internationally without approval of the state and state-issued traceable 'keys' (passports). states control the airspace, making unapproved aerial travel impossible. face-recognition technology is improving, and anti-mask laws are almost universal, making concealment of one's identity near impossible. most civilians are unarmed and access to weapons is tightly controlled; weapons like artillery and rockets are virtually impossible to obtain, same for armoured vehicles

as long as states have such high levels of control over peoples' movements, whereabouts and actions, we'll remain stuck and continue to stagnate. that's why i say there needs to be a serious collapse, one that puts 'cracks' in their 'walls' as seen in failing/failed states like iraq or african countries

Every single insurrection comes along people say it's impossible for xyz reasons that seem persuading, and indeed this technology seems impossible to confront.

But it still just takes one pin in everything to fall apart. And in such an event you hire people financially struggling to stop people rebelling against the system that caused it to begin with, you'll likely find lots of missing pins.

It's still managed by people, and no matter how automated something is, it still falls apart eventually.

I think automation like this is actually more of a weakness.

Centrists/moderates are the worst political group ever because regardless of the system in power they will always destroy it out of fading away.

Sorry wrong flag.

It's over. If shit hits the fan, there are too many committed fashies and fanatical eugenicists and they'll just start killing off lots of people real fast (which is as simple as simply denying them food during an inevitable food shortage, since the fashies and eugenicists will own all of the food supply).

Unless you have a plan to kill every single fashy and eugenicist, or at least the vast majority of them, you might as well give up on this world.

The working logic of Nazi Germany, it lasted a long time and ended in Germany being half Western half Eastern bloc.

Sorry I meant short time :v)

that's true but i still have doubts. since the beginning of the computer age there hasn't been a serious attempt at insurrection in a western country. it's simply impossible to organise resistance movements in this kind of security-saturated environment, especially today where even skype conversations are monitored by nsa computers

The NSA contracts out to private firms. It isn't at all as regulated as you think it is.

that just means they're extending their reach by hiring stooges to help them

Germany was kind of destroyed by the rest of the world ganging up on them and didn't have the technology of today, nor a population as fully indoctrinated. There wouldn't be any Allies to save the day if America went fash and Americans are far more indoctrinated in accepting the eugenicist ideology. There would be a pitiful and meek resistance movement that could easily be bulldozed.

And? It's also been there largest problem since it's how so much leaks out from the agency.

more people doing the surveillance = more coverage and results

Germany was supposed to be highly mechanized and it was defeated in most part by a country everyone promised wouldn't exist.

Mechanization was supposed to be their greatest strength in the war, but it ended up being their greatest weakness. It took time to repair equipment in the field, often times crucial parts of war logistics were forgotten because they thought they could just curb stomp the Russians with superior firepower and technology.

But they didn't. And I admit they went far, but they still didn't defeat Russia for these very reasons.

Technology isn't everything. If we look at war the last century, the most technological force usually ends up the loser for a reason.

Every time in history things become as unequal economically as they are now, no matter how futile it may be, insurrection follows shortly after, and then after, and then after. Depending on results, and the more desperate people become, the more they have power over "technology".

And more leaks

Leaks don't do anything, try to name one thing Snowden or Wikileaks changed.

We are riding straight into cyberpunk dystopia, except this is not a movie, there are no "glorious heroes winning against all odds", just a few """terrorists""" and lifelong ignorance and slavery

They're indicative of a larger loyalty problem that always ends up being the problem that kneecaps the supposedly unstoppable technological front in any revolution.

The amount of leaks is a larger problem than the leaks themselves.

You think technology and automation can surpass its own very human limitations. It won't.

If the shit hits the fan, the global leaders will join forces. There won't be competing countries, everyone will be busy suppressing their own population. That's the big difference between Nazi Germany and now.

What makes you so sure of this? And what would that mean? What would that look like? UN troops? Sanctions?

You're making the problem more chaotic and that just leads to it being worse.

Inequality and climate will exacerbate class problems into having to be answered.

Feudalism was supposed to be forever and it seemed really implausible to end, but it ended anyways.

the internet and microprocessor didn't exist during feudalism

Most of the world has accepted neoliberal orthodoxy and everything that comes with it (the eugenics shit). China is the biggest exception and they're straight-up eugenicists who are most interested in suppressing their large population. No one is going to be interested in fighting a war to liberate the world, so who's going to fight the ruling fascists from the outside? No one, that's who.

It's not a matter of technology, but human psychology and ideology. There are just too many fascists and eugenicists and they're growing by the day. The Millennial generation is a lost cause by now, the current crop of kids are in for a world of shit.

You think both change shit

And it all falls apart once class comes into the picture at a large enough scale. Face it ideology means little when you can't feed your family.

they drastically strengthen the rulers' ability to control and monitor the population

And? What will that mean to class? Not much.

it drastically lessens the population's ability to resist their rulers

It isn't doing a good job right now. I doubt it will do a good job in 40 years.

so where are all the resistance movements in the west?

Probably around a decade away.

where are they gonna get their weapons and vehicles?

In America it's fairly easy to acquire both a weapon and a vehicle

ar-15s and pickup trucks maybe. where are they gonna get machine guns, apcs, tanks, artillery, attack aircraft; plus the munitions required to use them?

Technology applied on your own doorstep usually ends badly for the occupying party. You can test a million simulations and try a million war game but you can't test the real thing once it happens without the sympathy and outrage.

Ideology will matter when power is concentrated in the fascists and eugenicists hands, and they control all of the food sources. Those who can't prove their worth to the ideology don't get fed, and those who somehow survive get rounded up and thrown into camps to accelerate the process.

Do you know the seething hatred towards the disabled? That will likely be the first population to be liquidated, and it will met with cheers by the general population. All that is needed is to control the collapse well enough so that target groups can be picked off one by one, and that the police are fed well enough to suppress riots.

Also, what kind of fucking shitty mod bumplocks threads with actual discussion?