Any mutualists, left libertarians, individualist anarchists, and other market socialists (including Titoists and Richard Wolfeites) down for moving to New Hampshire and infiltrating the Free State Project?
NH advantages (from a left lib perspective):
Also, anarcho-syndicalists are welcome. Not AnComms though.
You might be better off looking for a site with a larger userbase, but good luck with your endeavor.
I'd prefer to larp in a major city where there's lots of girls.
NH has plenty of single young women…
/r/mutualism isn't that active.
There's always /r/Autonomism.
Nothing un-socialist about markets.
I'll move but I'm currently in school and want to graduate first. Any towns you'd recommend?
I don't think co-ops are revolutionary, but I would be up to moving to NH to be part of one, better than the usual wage slavery.
Keene: lots of college students, right libertarians already have a strong presence there but many will probably come over to us, plenty of co-op opportunities
Manchester (especially West Manch): very affordable, largest city in the state, also plenty of potential space for co-ops
New Boston: low-hanging fruit, small town with lots of farm land, not expensive, close to Manch
Milford: also low-hanging fruit, small city between Manchester and Keene, very nice atmosphere though kind of rust belt-ish
Nashua: lots of immigrants, cheap rent, decent culture, definitely could use a few co-ops
Newport: similar to Milford
Places to avoid:
Portsmouth: way too expensive and hipster
Up north: nothing to do, 50% of the homes are vacation homes
What we can do in NH:
Join us anyway.
It can happen on a local level. Already, big box stores are losing revenue. Oh hell, a good number of chain stores at my local mall have shut down due to retailpocalypse.
isn't this just code-word for "liberal"?
No. It's an established school of thought.
I wish you people would all hang yourselves. Imagining a situation where this crap catches on and a revolutionary situation ends with capitalism being replaced with "democratic" capitalism is super fucking dystopian and depressing.
it's an aborted version of anarchism that sounds like it was written by James Madison
Mutualism isn't "democratic capitalism", it's its own social philosophy, heavily rooted in Kant.
FSP is some of the corniest shit ever.
That's why left libertarian entryism makes sense. FSP has their heads waayyyyy too far up their asses to accomplish anything. NH will be a mutualist haven in no time.
I currently live in upstate NY. Really, not much of a change.
But the commodity form and production-for-value certainly are are un-socialist, and Markets under Mutualism would, invariably, function as a sort of "Capitalism without Capitalists", I agree that Mutualism and Market Socialism is preferable to unfettered Capitalism, but it's hardly the ideal form that a Socialist praxis could take.
Explain to me how this is socialism
labor vouchers make exploitation literally impossible. you think capitalists are just "people who worked very hard and made a lot of money"? no! they can only exist where exploitation exists.
Why no Ancoms? Sucks I plan on moving there anyway, since I pretty much already live in NH and i have a trailer in the mountains I spend a lot of time at. Gonna have to learn to love us quasi socialist bastard
You can definitely come too but I was mainly looking for mutualists, marksocs, and an-syns.
under a system of labor certificates everybody's time has equal social power
also exploitation is not possible and production can be organized without it (impossible under any capitalist system including mutualism)
oh honey you have me entirely wrong
Ansyn falls within ancom umbrella. Actually truth be told though I'm not fully an ancom, I'm more of a bookchinite, libertarian municipalism or confederalist or social ecologist or whatever other name. Though I'm down with coops. Littleton food coop way up 93 is the fucking tits, dopest food selection I've ever witnessed
You're not an anarchist?
not unless you consider Luxemburg an Anarchist
you realize vouchers are supported by mutualists right?
We can't just jump straight from Capitalist Hell to FALC. There must be steps that are taken in between. Market Socialism is a solid step in that direction.
I agree, somewhat, but there is danger in putting a system into place which can foster great inequality
Some would argue that getting trapped in various transitional phases is exactly what kills revolutions, and while I don't necessarily agree wholeheartedly with Communization Theory, the arguments aren't entirely unconvincing given the actual history of what took place in the USSR and PRC. Mutualism is worse then a solid "step" or "phase", it doesn't even consider the actual core issue of the value form at all, a Mutualist revolution would be a ridiculous misstep and misappropriation of revolutionary energy.
As long as they're worker co-ops. Please remember that there are many types of co-ops. Worker co-ops are the only ones that matter.
Well you're definitely not going to have an easy time starting worker co-ops here in Wyoming. Our laws are shit for forming them.
The hell is the problem with that? That was a great idea.
I'm not arguing for Mutualism in its often proposed form, I'm arguing for Market Socialism in general, I'd prefer to put the means of production entirely in the hands of the workers. I'd say that is the one detail in the transition of all revolutions that fails to happen, and I believe it should be the very first thing attempted from here on out. Either as loose co-ops, workers councils, or chartered democratic workplaces. If anything I'd like to see all three done at the same time and see which one has the most success.
If the workers control the means of production, the inequality will be far less than it would under capitalism. In many democratic workplaces the wage gap is only 1:5. Which is preferable to the 1:20 or 1:50 in most social democracies, or the 1:450 in neoliberal shitholes like Burgerstan.
Explain? Why have differences in pay at all?
Because the ideology of meritocracy still means people tend to vote to pay elected managers a bit more.
What safeguards would exist to prevent the managers from becoming the elite?
The fact that they're elected and the workers still decide democratically how much power they get to exercise.
Fair enough, but there is always the dilemma with moderate or reformist politics that these "practical" and "pragmatic" incrementalist steps can at times become more difficult and sisyphean to erect then more radical reforms, and then you get situations where people fighting for moderate Capitalist reforms like single payer healthcare or 15 dollar minimum wage starts to eclipse any kind of more ambitious Leftist idea of what praxis can look like. But I agree that Market Socialism would be preferable to Capitalism, so far as the Left didn't loose sight of it's higher ambitions of a classless and stateless society, which Mutualism certainly isn't, and no previous revolution, Anarchist or Marxist, has ever really been able to produce so far, a reality more Leftists should take seriously. All that said, I could imagine certain Mutualist and Communalist ideas being very popular and gaining traction in the general New England region of the US.
I would be interested. Wouldn't be able to move there for another year or so. Are you planning on making some sort of website, social media page, etc advocating this?Just because I feel like it would attract more attention that way rather than just posting it here…
What's the end goal of this?
You're confusing capitalist markets with mutualist markets. Labor reciprocity is the key distinction to be made between the two.
Yeah I'm not interested in "socialism" in one co-op anyways. I bet my left nut that exposure to right libertarians (which make up 90% of the project) will turn most mutualistfags yellow.
"You're confusing capitalist states with socialist markets. The good intentions of the vanguard is the key distinction to be made between the two." t. Stalinists
Markets are markets. Read Graeber.
i will suggest a better version of market socialism: Allocate needs basic commodities(food,water,housing,Energy) & healthcare directly to everyone without going through a market. Many problems can emerge : If for instance you have a shortage of to access needs like healthcare like a shortage of available doctors ( in the case if people don't organize and solve the problem by themselves like those with the some medical training will assites and take care of minor problem ) you make a line, people are assign a number , people can exchange that number with other people if they want (like seeing old people wait behind that need immediat attention) some want just some luxury in exchange of the earliest ticket so a market , and those will a lot of luxury will have access to a basic need.
You can't cure market, better cut it off.
Liberal please. Self-interest is where it's at.
fugg, should be socialist states
Mutualist poster, do you have discord? I to share your co-op sympathies and would like to discuss them with you, I have an idea that might interest you
Mutualists get the rope first.
Of course states are bullshit. The name of the movement is the Free State Project though.
Fuck you then. I was perfectly happy to work on co-ops to class-pill some normies but I guess because I don't think we can use them as a transition to socialism, just as a tool for recruitment, organization, and rev-prep, I guess I'm not good enough for you.
Problem is that you have a revolution to establish marksucc but it still has the cycle of capital and accumulation of wealth so you need another revolution to get socialism.
What is THAT through. is it a commune? a what? how the hell are they going to make LAW fuck off? They never want to fuck off.
The only way to pull that shit off is with secrecy in a secluded place. Not all New Hampshire, the state will never allow it. Pull off a Barcelona and it will probably last only 2 weeks sadly.
Whatever. No one is stopping you from moving to NH and working with mutualists.
Not as understood by marxists. Proudhonian labour notes are basically money as they still circulate.
Too bad I live so fucking far away…
Moving to NH isn't hard…
NHfag here. Stay away from Portsmouth. It's beautiful on the surface but you'll be shelling out more than if you were to live in Boston.
You can go from having read one book to having never read a book. It just isn´t possible.
Since Bookchin considered libertarians to be leftists, can Bookchinites come along?
You're cancer tbh. There's a surprisingly high number of authoritarian shitbags in the "anarchist" movement.
Literally kill anyone who disagrees with lowering the age of consent to 15. Firing squads for all of you. You made us do this.
I thought it was Benjamin Tucker, Voltarine de Cleyre and nowadays guys like Kevin Carsson.
It seems to be an exclusively American thing.
I support decriminalizing prostitutes but the sex industry is one of the worst. I don't see how giving pimps (who are really just bosses and tyrants in their own right) so much power is consistent with mutualism.
what is a sex workers union?
Countries with legalized prostitution like Austria do just fine. There should be a registry and a union to make sure they aren't exploited plus a brothel is a lot safer than a street corner
I doubt most prostituted women would join a SWU given that the bulk of them are poor as fuck or drug-addicted who do it because they have no other options. Most of the SWU advocates are high end call girls who get to pick and choose their clients and who had plenty of other options. I say this because I used to live in a city where prostitution was rampant.