Maduro wins once and for all

I gotta say, it is very obvious that ExxonMobil and the US are stirring up trouble to topple a "socialist" government, but I get so many conflicting reports on this issue I don't even know anymore… halp

He rig the votes didn't he?

My ass vicariously sat in power in Venezuela, cowboy.

It's what he's saying, they're calling this the greatest electoral triumph of the revolution in terms of sheer votes, that's a fucking blatant lie, there is absolutely no way he and his government are more popular than Chavez ever was.

My money is on yeah. I know for a fact (because I saw it) that electoral command members (voting cheerleaders from civil society) were also coaxing people into voting; like telling old people they would no longer recieve government pensions if they didn't vote.

Chavez, 2012: 8,191,132
Maduro, 2013: 7,505,338
National Assembly (GPP), 2015: 5,622,844
Constitutional Assembly, 2017: 8,089,320

Capriles, 2012: 6,591,304
Capriles, 2013: 7,270,403
National Assembly (MUD), 2015: 7,726,066
Unofficial opposition referendum (lowest "yes"), 2017: 7,432,764

Then shed some light upon us then user, cause I see so much conflicting info and claims of propaganda on both sides my brain hurts.

The only things I know for certain is that there's shortages, violence, and that Maduro's an idiot.

Ayyy lmao I fucked up. Yeah I'm not going to deny that Maduro is a giant cringelord.

As I said, it's what they are saying and that's how they are parading it up and down in the country, never mind how accurate it is or not.

Also this is food for thought, why would the trend be increased support for the government when the crisis has gotten deeper?

I don't understand why anyone would support a government that is clearly nothing but a legal front for a Drug Cartel, and as we know, all drug cartels are either in bed or in competition with the CIA.

Chávez wasn't some miracle story of sucess in terms of socialist reforms, many of his achievements (such as eliminating iliteracy) are not only exagerated but also overplayed, would you say for instance that anyone can graduate high-school level education after 6 or 12 months when they couldn't even read or write before that?

The Venezuelan situation takes a lot of BEING there to actually analyze, looking at data published by the government is not any better than watching CNN and expecting to really comprehend what is happening.

I guess I really learned this lesson, it's not wise to talk about a country's situation too much when one is not really a citizen there.

It is. Most polls constantly tell that popularity is ever decreasing, and while the levels reported are not totally believable, it doesn't make sense for him to get more votes now. However, I don't really know if this vote required being registered to vote in the CNE. I don't doubt the PSUV would sink so low as to allow non-registered people to vote: they have done it before.

MUD is the opposition coalition. The first 4 results are for the government, the last 4 are for the opposition.

It did.

On the other hand, Chavez had one of the biggest oil Bonanzas around '06 since the fucking dinosaurs turned to sludge, so what did he do with all that money? He invested *some* of it on social programs, that's nice, but most of the Cuban doctors he brought it have escaped into Colombia because they couldn't tolerate the rampant crime and inflation, that's another thing they don't tell you, because you'd have to *be* here and visit the barrio adentro modules and speak to the remaining Cuban medics to know that.

The news are not the truth, the news are the map and one can never mistake it for the territory, that's what I've learned.

Most people know and are perfectly aware that high-ranking officials have been involved in Narcotraffic and they've known this for quite a while, we didn't really need the DEA to tell us that, this is the sort of thing people pick up on because rumours spread, and with so many people working on security forces, a lot of rumours get confirmed, I have a couple of stories, everyone does.

Yes son, that's why I quoted it there, for comparison.

runrun.es/nacional/319659/mas-de-40-paises-estan-en-contra-de-la-constituyente.html

lol

One has to simply ask themselves what good could this constitutional assembly do for us, and what is it exactly that they plan to do with it.

The official discourse is that it will somehow help give the government the necessary tools to fight the "economic warfare" we're dealing with and that it will result in the restoration of peace and understanding of all Venezuelans (gaaay!)

But the problem is that this crisis began *before* the MUD took the National assembly, this crisis was well on the horizon even when Chávez was alive and at the height of his power.

How much more power would a (functionally) single-party regime need? Every public institution (save for the National assembly and that's relatively recent), every single branch of the security and armed forces has sworn fealty to Chávez and his work.

All power is centralised on Miraflores, what more could they NEED to make this country functional again? Every single time Maduro approves 6 billions from national budget (borrowed at interests from the Chinese) to activate "economic engines" of the nation, we hear about it for a couple of weeks on the radio and on the TV, but the Nationalized Fama de America and Café Madrid coffee brands are STILL missing from the shelves. All the money goes away on a puff and nobody knows what they did with it, the CLAP bags and boxes that were supposed to help fight inflation and the economic war by bringing fair-priced basic food product barely reaches us every 6 months, and add insult to injury, they are mostly 3rd rate products that were given to us as aid by Mexico and Brazil.

How many times must they be given a chance? if this is a matter of sabotage or internal struggles they they are clearly not up to the task.

I wish people here read more about other shit than just communism. The only refineries in the world that can refine heavy Venezuelan crude are in the US. It's entirely in US interest to harm OPEC by causing members to oversupply and lower the price of oil even if in the short term this will hurt the shale fields profitability. The US was not the one who implemented price and currency controls in Venezuela which are like 60% of the cause of the current problem (to be specific the incorrect implementation of such controls).

This sort of thing makes guerilla operations difficult by eroding popular support for a militant opposition. There was a thread yesterday that featured a paper written by some of the American officers who were in charge of putting down a communist guerilla movement in the Philippines. This was one of the strategies that the authors credited with the success of the counter-insurgency.

Ah, the capitalist solution to every economic downturn: borrow and spend until it goes away.

though its not like other places are much better. CNBC ran a story about how sanctions by the US on Venezuela could help India and China which of course they wouldn't since like I said the only refineries in the world that can convert the shitty Venezuelan oil are in the US.

Though iirc there was a time when Venezuela sold a bunch of oil to China for cheap who then went to the US to sell it for cheap as well since like I said we are the only ones in the world who fucking buys it.

lol

What do you mean? i'm not sure I follow.

Yes, the Bolivarian government has proven incompetent so far.

how can i get up to speed on venezuela? All i know is that the USA doesn't like their government and keeps claiming they're undemocratic while leftists make snarky CIA remarks but i really don't know anything about whats going on. is maduro good or bad? are they even really pushing socialist policies? why is Venezuela such a shit hole?

Calling a constitutional assembly, you mean?

So what do Venezuelans who supported Chavez think is the solution here? I feel like this ground has been tread before. The issue here is that you have a nominally socialist government that is corrupt and incompetent, beset by right wing enemies. The fact that it has right wing enemies constantly attacking it implies to me that there are still elements of the government that are definitely socialistic and stand to disrupt bourgie muh privileges, at the very least just to retain power, so the Maduro govt isn't a total fraud.

So if it is just a high level of incompetence and seeded corruption, there needs to be a socialist opposition. Power can't be ceded to the right wing because you'll see repression and retaliation for the whole Bolivarian project which will set back the left in Venezuela by decades. Does that opposition exist? Who is being sent to the constituent assembly? Why can't they just say that along with the new constitution, there need to be all new elections for every seat? How could a new constitution root out the corruption?

Exactly. Taking extraordinary measures to reestablish the veneer of democracy in action weakens support for militant opposition.

I'm afraid it doesn't here. The PCV has given up any Marxist facade and shown itself to be a purely revisionist party by supporting the government. There is the PCMLV, but that party is too small.

the propaganda machine against venezuela has been absolutely shameless lately
Jose Felix Pineda a pro-maduro candidate was murdered in his home and the media everywhere said he was with the opposition

cancer inbound

reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/6qpi7f/venezuela_is_beginning_to_resemble_a_war/?st=j5sfm7kz&sh=b35caec8

...

/r/vzla's response to that: reddit.com/r/vzla/comments/6qff7m/asesinan_de_varios_disparos_a_josé_félix_pineda/

Neck yourselves. Chavismo is the first politically successful movement of Venezuala that looks out for the poor Venezuelans. They are going through trouble now because
1. They didn't purge the traitors after the coup of 2002, now these reactionaries are stirring up trouble
2. CIA et al. propaganda and setting up terrorist "democratic opposition" (the moderate rebel equivalent) groups
3. They did not go far enough in socialists reforms, allowing an opening for capitalists inside and outside of the country to sabotage the economy

Maduro can right this ship if he is determined and ruthless enough. He should stop holding back and mercilessly crush the wreckers and traitors now that the People have re-affirmed his popular mandate.

The ones who supported Ch. but don't support Maduro think Maduro should leave and we should start over.

This is the tricky part, Sure, plenty are your basic bitch progressivist Neoliberals but the point is not to argue what is right wing or not, that'd be pointless semantics, the point here is that the MUD are no different from the people who rule everywhere else in the world, you can take that for what you will, but they are basically malleable politicians; the vanilla option, the ones anyone can start over with if needed because they cannot possibly harness the sheer power and popularity a powerful figure such as chavez one did..

So the fact that Maduro is being attacked by "the right wing" isn't really any sort of credit to his name as a socialist leader, but simple power dynamics of any country

There is *some* Within the PSUV, but these are the useful idiots that get shot down out of actual power positions at any time, not to mention they'll get shouted down for treason by the average Joe.

Like I said, this isn't the right wing in any traditional sense and it could hardly be in the kick-down-doors and start-up-helicopters type, those men and women who lead the MUD are too limp-wristed for such a thing, and Venezuela has a very long history of being left-leaning, even many accused of being right-wing conspirators are actually marxist Leninists.

Not in any meaningful way as far as I can tell, but I may be wrong since I am not a militant in any party (fuck em)

A transexual, a bunch of known street criminals, a bunch of old people and a few cripples. Some sort of inclusive near-newspeak BS, but I'm pretty sure that's just for show, they'll stick with the program the Politburo provides.

Because then they'd be out of job, and most of them would be jailed even by their own allies.

It could not, that's absurd, you can't write "let there be no corruption" into le magic book of not-so-ancient-anymore tales and expect political action and behaviour to just materialize.

Isn't Chavez's daughter one of the richest people in their country? Why exactly should we support what is essentially just another bourgeois government with a human face?

DIS GON B GUD

That is false, Maria Gabriela Chavez is actually one of the richest venezuelans living outside of the country.

Yes! Good worker! Support good old social democrats who leave the country dangling in the same imperialism as before even though they complain about it endlessly, support private property and actively get rich from corruption.

dude that's just democracy lmao
chicago is dirtier than that

Kek

I'm poor and I don't feel looked after, neither do my neighbors and friends. What is this meme that all poor people have been "done right" by the government? If they were "looking out for the poor" there'd be less poor people and in spite of what official numbers might say, there's actually more of them.

Yeah like failing to properly invest and manage every public infrastructure and nationalized industry/bussiness. Every single one of them
muh CIA did the everything.

meh.

4. they got addicted to expensive crude and didn't diversify their economy

**when 90% of your exports are oil, and then the price of oil drops by 50% you are fucked
unless you planned for it, and had a rainy day fund, but chavez didn't do this
bonus stupidity because the IMF told him that Venezuela was vulnerable because of it's reliance on oil, and they didn't do anything**

Doesn't make it any more acceptable.

I don't know about you but I find threats and black mailing to be punishable by death and I despise people who fold even when their long term interests are being trampled on.

People should realize that there's really not much more money left to pay for anything, and it's not OPEC's fault, it's our fault.

Every single relevant cultural figure of the 20th century in this country not only knew of this but warned it time and time again. This thing predates the Chávez regime yet he more than anyone else had both the power, the support and the knowledge to act on it and still didn't do it.

Every Venezuelan down to the dumbest KNEW we relied too much on oil, the crisis has no excuse.

How do you know that?

can't claim to be an expert of any kind but since nobody is answering:
I think it is safe to say that he is incompetent and prob unfit for office on those grounds
Not really, they did some misguided social programmes such as price controls(?), but there is no great nationalisation programme etc. Basically a petrodollar-fuelled social democracy at best, like a shitty Norway.
Weak economic base, endemic corruption and crime, 50% of state revenue was from oil before the price sank, that's where this current crisis stems from
anyone more knowledgeable, please correct anything in this post.

probably more tbh

It sounds like they could've benefitted from more of an economic plan if the big problem was an undiversified economy. Nationalize industries, put people to work and start trading internationally with other goods than oil.

Simple logic and observation of life.

Take me, for instance, I was middle class and by all accounts I still should be, yet I cannot stay affloat, I simply do not have any disposable income anymore and everyone in my station has the exact same problem. The minimum wage is just a big nothing.

By january this year, 7 minimum wages were needed to cover the cost for an average market basket.

Sorry I didn't see the post you replied to.

But yeah this is a pretty good overview of the situation, although there *was* a pretty big nationalisation programme, many industries were bought by the government and subsequently ran to the fucking ground, as were countless acres of once productive land, our telecom company and many others.

although the actual size of this programme as compared to any specific doctrine or ideological vision is best left to each own, I'd say it was big enough to fuck it all up that's for sure.

Oh and can't remember exact numbers but I'm pretty sure that state revenue from oil was way above 50%

But the government did this, they just sucked at it so bad.

soooo bad.

Fucking labor aristocrat scum

So nothing of any actual substance, got it.

A middle class reactionary? Unsurprising.

Do you have any data or additional insight into why exactly the nationalisation failed?

Again, by january this year, 7 minimum wages were needed to cover the cost for an average market basket.

Meaning 7 salaries were needed to feed a family of 5. These are minimum wages, usually earned by people who are middle class and bellow, such as those who are poor, and each person makes just one minimum salary, more or less, unless they make two or more because they're a CEO or something, at which point they'd probably be well above the poverty line.

It looks like your impertinent rebutal is nothing of any substance.

And you're a faggot.

I don't know if one exists to add insights as to *why* it failed, lemme look fo a bit to see if I can find anything of the sort.

I know data exists just basically showing what X company produced before being nationalised and how that declined afterwards into nothing or a fraction..

the "middle" class doesn't exist. It's just the people who own the means of production and the people who sells their labor force

You well what I mean when I say middle class don't pretend that you do not just because you want to be an asshat and show off how much you've read beyond "such paltry definitions for social strata".

Whatever man, but that's just a misconception from your part.

Have you reade Pascualina Curcio's work about the economic crisis my fellow venezuelan?

Wow aren't you forgetting your aunt Lilian Tintori? kek

treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20170731.aspx

Bye bye Venezuela!

Yes yes I'm sure those are objective facts and figures from a reliable source. Things are so awful it's all you can do to post on an obscure politics forum for hours on end just to make ends meet. Tragic.

Isn't this basically a good thing?

How is this a good thing? Are you retarded?

It's a good thing. It's the opportunity for the real leftist to try and bring about all the changes in the state and implement the real socialist measures that were being held back by the internal and external ettacks all these years after Chavez's dead

Found the guy with a silver spoon so far down his neck he doesn't understand the obvious idiom he's using.

Hey if that makes you feel better.

Hmm, I was wondering when shitposters like you would come.

Your language and delusions tells me you are one of those imbeciles who singlehandedly gobble telesur.

See
Seems better to me that the "Socialists" won over the capitalist and fascist protesters did. It at least gives the surviving actual left a chance to reform the party. Not to defend Maduro, but he seems way better than the alternative.

Doesn't make me feel anything since it's my first post in the thread, well, it makes me feel like you're 15, but that's it.

The government can't fix this problem now. It won't either switch production to anything else nor ever turn this country socialist, because it was always capitalism with pink characteristics. The communist party, the main one, is only so in name, and the others are almost non-existent. Wake up, socialists never won shit here.

They have no choice left but to go hardline or get lynched.

Will Maduro finally go full revolution?

What 'hardline'? Less social democratic capitalism?

Never.

Do you actually think he won't start putting some red into his "socialist" country now that he's been forced to make a massive power grab, with bombs going off in the street, and an embargo around the corner?

It is the Maduro supporters that are being killed in the bombings. WaPo, NYT and the rest of US state media are now admitting that, albeit framing them as somehow deserving of being killed.

He never will. Maduro has never been and never will be a socialist, he is just a bourgeois stateman, nor is anyone in the PSUV save for entryist minorities that are powerless. This country has little hope of industrializing in this situation, because the imbeciles never did so when oil was paying well nor saved much for this situation which was foreseeable. Simply put, a useless lazy donkey doesn't become a horse when you lash at it enough times.

He must, otherwise it's complete extinction for whatever looks socialist, call it pink, call it magenta if you want.

White house briefing: youtube.com/watch?v=YADEfJofYgw

Then embrace a right wing government for years to come, burying the possibility for a socilist regime for decades

There was one bomb that left 4 GNBs (military) wounded.

Source: your ass

How am I supposed to take those things as a personal threat rather than realizing that if the right wing wins they will lose all their pensions.

They call them "Maduro Loyalists" you can google it yourself.

well the chicago tribune isn't painting them that positively in this article

chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-venezuela-opposition-militants-20170724-story.html

see

…¿qué? I am doing my task of clearing deluded morons who see anything with a red flag and without any analysis claim that their "/guys/" are winning? Chávez, Maduro, Correa, Morales and many other opportunists. The blind support these people get tells a lot of the ideological seriousness of people here.

lol
The (opposition-led) National Assembly introduced a law (by unanimity) adding the food bonus (more than 2/3 of the wage) to pensions. The Supreme Court rejected it.

You should try reading the article and not just the headline. It doesn't say anything about pro-government deaths.

They are crying about how basic necessities are not met and people dying of hunger yet still want to make it worse?

They're sanctioning individuals.

What else are they for?

That's sanctions

I think you are the one being a "deluded moron" that doesn't understand that we are up against a local and foreign coalition of countries and economical interest that are way beyond to the right political spectrum that whatever Maduro could represent.

I wasn't talking about pro-government deaths specifically wiseguy. I was refering to the fact that they are addressing the violent groups as they are and are abandoning the idea that they are peaceful whatsoever

Too bad, I'm a cynic but from the other perspective, when I see someone in a brewing world of shit, I think "How would I weasel out of that?" and expect other people to try the same shit, especially when their real life neck is on the line.
Shame they're a bunch of retards to be honest they could have set up a nice food price control and stamp system, had everyone fed, and made money from the fucking oil and not cash crops like actual real life sensible people and not dribbling nobooks spastics.

I really dont know how to feel about this.
Venezuela never had a socialist gov, it was some made-up stuff along with classical socdem theories.
I dont highly despise socdems as a lot of people do here, but, no offense, he seems to be an absolute fucktard.

You can't read, right? You were the one who started going about the opposition when I told you that the government was never going to move towards socialism, like someone who must responds with anything but doesn't know what to. Do you converse with people about the Sun then when it gets uncomfortable switch to talking about the toe? This is what you did. I know that the opposition will ruin this country, but you should reread the post you responded to. No serious communist movement will emerge for a long time.

How about the assertion that the election is illegal?

No, nobody knows what they mean when they say "middle class," because the term does not actually have any meaning.

Yes. And the Midwest will blame socialism for the sanctions we impose on them causing starvation.

Welcome to hellworld. Enjoy your stay.

Which sactions are currently imposed on Venezuela?

Bullshit. Propaganda is spread both to the citizens and to foreigners. You being a citizen doesn't make you not susceptible to your country's propaganda. In fact you pretty much are.

more than the USA

I hate my fucking country so much. Don't even give a shit about fucking socdem bolivarian shit but the goddam blatant hypocrisy and two faced bullshit makes me sick. I can't wait for a military junta to stick Maduro's head on a spike and start stealing babies and executing their mothers for security, all while the US media suddenly stops caring so much about Venzuelan affairs and Exxon makes a fucking mint. They'll probably just show some blurry footage of rioters surrounding government buildings and frame it as freedom loving rebels or some shit and pretend that's the end of the narrative.

Is it physically impossible for liberals to make their own jokes and or memes?
Literally every leftist piece of "oc" is a repackage of something the so called alt right made. Pathetic.

The Temer regime in Brazil wont recognize the vote
An unelected regime don't recognize elections

Yes look at iraq post 1st gulf war sanctions

So much of Lenin’s “left-wing communism” itt. FFS, you have a quasi-socialist/soc-dem type government battling a terrorist campaign and economic warfare by a right-wing opposition composed of neo-liberals and fascists. But hey, might as well let them take over because Maduro’s incompetent and not a “real socialist”.

WTF!

The opposition has never accepted the legitimacy of either the Chavez or Maduro governments. And they always - always - lie about absolutely everything. We’re supposed to believe that this latest vote was a “fraud”. They’ve cried “fraud” every time they’ve lost. Every. Single. Time.

When Chavez won in 1999, they cried fraud and declared his presidency illegitimate. When Chavez won referendum to draft a new constitution they cried fraud and declared the process illegitimate. They tried, and briefly succeeded, in overthrowing the government by force and declared that coup government legitimate. When Chavez won re-election they cried fraud and declared his presidency illegitimate. When Chavez won other referendums they cried “fraud” and declared those illegitimate. When Maduro won they called that “fraud” and declared his presidency illegitimate. The couple times the opposition won, they declared those the will of the people, of course.

One thing we can know for certain is the opposition are shameless pathological liars. They always reject as “fraud” any and all outcomes other than their own divine right to absolute rule, always. Now more recently, the opposition won a majority on the national assembly (one branch of government), and they believe this entitles them to total control of all branches of government. So the president is illegitimate and must be removed from office, by any means necessary, and the Supreme Court is “fraud” and nobody has to listen to their rulings, no matter what the constitution says about their powers.

This thinking is so ingrained that absolutely anything is justified, and thus it has been since 1999. Now that Venezuela is in economic crisis mostly due to collapsed oil prices, they step up their extremism, waging a terrorist campaign of destabilization around the country, including regularly setting roads and highways on fire to block traffic, throwing molotov cocktails at police, attacking Chavistas in the streets, or people who look like them, and anything else that can create enough chaos to allow them to seize all branches of government. And if the government does anything at all to stop them doing any of these things, that’s “repression” and “tyranny”.

And it goes beyond terrorism to outright treason. The opposition can’t get enough of sucking the USA’s cock and fantasizing about a “regime change” intervention to place them in power. They also support a hostile foreign power imposing crippling economic sanctions on their own country. Not only do they support a hostile foreign power directly overthrowing their own government, they support a hostile foreign power impoverishing and starving their own countrymen to help achieve these political goals. And sorry, but many of the “shortages” are part of the destabilization campaign too. There’s no toilet paper but somehow there’s plenty of napkins and paper towels and other paper products? Bull. Fucking. Shit. That’s done selectively and on purpose by porky to cause maximum irritation among the population to coincide with the terror campaign.

These people are the absolute worst neoliberal and fascist scum. But the Chavistas aren’t “real socialists” so whatevs guyz, let them win.

Fuck, no wonder the left can’t ever do anything but lose and watch neolibs run everything. Whether you like Maduro or not, you should be wishing these opposition fucks nothing but total and complete failure.

Finally somebody said it.

What does he even want to put in that constitution so bad anyway?

Apparently so, as it was a twitter meme, then the liberals on Holla Forums used it, then we corrected it for them.

It's like in Brazil the right never accepts anything and its always putting the institutions in doubt
Once they seize power the institutions are perfect and sacrosanct

Leopoldo Lopez and Antonio Ledezma taken back to prison by SEBIN.

It begins.

The riots will get ever stronger from this point. Link?

If nationalization is 'socialism' for you I'm not going to be able to contain my laughter when you then have to classify tons of countries are socialist, while having no idea what this term means except for some revisionist quote by Hitler, separated from any historical meaning.

...

elperiodico.com/es/sociedad/20170801/leopoldo-lopez-y-antonio-ledezma-vuelven-a-ser-detenidos-en-venezuela-6201587

Ledezma is trending on twitter worldwide lol

So you think Holla Forums is pro-capitalism. Most of us are nätiönalsöcialists or third-positïon.
Also, the meme says: "means of production are privately owned", which in the case of Venezuela, is a half truth. Chavez and Maduro nationalized a lot of factories etc. Then run them with the "proletariat" and ruin many of them. Private-owned factories do work based on the efficiency-driven mentality of the CEO / ""burgeoise""", but a state-owned factory can also work, if their managers look for efficiency as well. In this case, it didn't happen.

This country is probably being teared apart not because of capitalism, nor socialism, but because of the low-ïntellect and incompetence of its political class.

Se prendió esta mierda marico.

Good scenario for Venezuela but they (as citizens) stay oppressed.

The individuals Venezuela simply couldn't win with to powers gazing at them. Maduro is fake socialism and USA is the imperialist piece of shit that we already know, only "good" within it's own borders not outside.

Best case scenario imho was that Venezuela pulled of a Barcelona or a Rojava but that shit is too difficult.

At least peace has been settled.

This is how Ledezma was detained: twitter.com/telocuentonews/status/892255444550508545

chico tu estas halla? dime como esta, dime cual es el resultado q querias y porq.

Good joke.

Yes, i understand the problem. We get to define things in a very specific way, so as to define if a failed socialist country "wäs trüe socialism" or not. Hence the meme "nöt true socialism"

socialism: system which seeks to appropiate "the means of production" (factories etc) by "the people" (in most cases, the state, which should represent the people)

Hence Venezuela is a case of socialism.
On the other hand, USA has a component of socialism, because the state does control part of the means of production, and supposedly the state represents the people, but it's "socialistic component" is relatively low and because of other factors it could be called "capitalist country".

Socialism, in theory, could work i guess, but very few times have been demonstrated to work, and not everybody can make it work (there are significant differences between human groups in behaviour and intellëct (called "räces"), and some people are more individualistic than others, hence in some human groups socialism might work, i.e. China, in others it might not work)

well at least less physical violence. you know what I mean. Peace is not absolute, nothing is.

(in most cases, the state, which should represent the people)
the problem is that the state does not represent the people. Since when a rich ass bourgeoisie politician is similar to you? Politicians are in the upper levels of the hierarchy.

socialism seeks the workers to appropriate the means of production. That's it. Not a company, not a State but the ones who works them.

Nigger why the fuck are you asking those diereses on top of each vowel? Are you a LARPer? Please, for the love of God, read anything beyond Hitler and Wikipedia before spewing this revisionist garbage. There is no continuity between socialism and capitalism, one tears an entire class from their means of production and state, which is a product of class society and serves to suppress another class by a ruling class.

Venezuelan PSUV is not even Marxist, but according to you, who also butchers definitions, appearing is being, so we should also apologize for any country since they are socialist to some degree. See you imbecilic your argument is? Without mentioning that there was no revolution in Venezuela, contrary to the delusions of many Chavistas.

Good stuff
Let's hope he goes full Leninist

Venezuela sucks on so many levels, they arent even Marxists, they are socialists. And i know the media and america are most likely making shit up a lot of the time, like they do with syria or north korea but maduro seems like an idiot.

Leopoldo: twitter.com/liliantintori/status/892270054045253634

No, they're in trouble because they don't fucking make or grow anything. They just expect to get paid for owning oil and use it to prop up their budget without any investment in modernization. If they'd used that money to make Venezuala more self reliant instead of on short term benefits the oil shock would still have sucked but they'd be doing ok right now, and in the long term be doing great.

I hope they get illegally shot

he is a Holla Forumstard

they're not socialists, read even the basic Wikipedia definition of socialism. it adopted some socialism but they're not fully socialists. AT ALL.

nazism and turd position is still capitalism, cuck

Welfare capitalism + poor, corrupt shithole = Chavismo

The sooner Venezuela stops being associated with socialism the better.

Great, sounds like a good reason for imperialists to disregard elections and try to overthrow the government from Washington. So many shades of grey here.

Venezuela vote count manipulated, Smartmatic CEO says

local10.com/news/international/venezuela-vote-count-manipulated-smartmatic-ceo-says

Fuck lol