Venezuela crisis rundown

Oil revenues dropped and so they could no longer afford to import essential essential goods.
This meant that Venezuela had to rely on it's own domestic production for a change.
But domestic production was insufficient because price controls always cause shortages … porky and the US government are evul and counter revolutionaries sabotaged production.
Tropical paradise, not enough food.

Does "Chavismo" actually stand for anything or is it just another cult of personality?

Pro-Chavez and pro-Maduro.

not really it's just cult of personality + incredibly incompetent succdem

huge swings in the price of crude don't just materialize because a board room on wallstreet or a think tank in DC want them to
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_oil_glut#Causes

Left wing populism, militarism, n*tionalism and so on. Needless to say they reject marxism

fuck lol

Wikipedia is a very reliable source indeed
Read about the maidan "revolution"

we need to recognize when a subject is outside our wheelhouse
we understand the political economy
but I would wager almost none of us understand how global oil industry works and all the factors that influence the price of crude

it doesn't matter how much theory you've read, you can still fall prey to Dunning Kruger regarding other things

Wikipedia is a notoriously unreliable source, fam

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Holla Forums plz go

what can point to in that excerpt that you believe is factually incorrect?

What makes you believe it's factually correct?

they literally don't have enough food
also

Hello Holla Forums

...

Look at the Venezuela's subreddit's response to this: reddit.com/r/vzla/comments/6qk4ys/the_us_was_behind_the_2002_coup_attempt_in/

It's active as fuck, 10 comments in 10 minutes.

can you read? that's not what the investopedia article says at all.
You have literally no idea how the oil industry works. stop making us look stupid.

cool bait dude you made it yourself?
tbh its pointless to talk to venezuelans about this stuff

It is pointless to even bother about it. People either don't care or outright celebrate this. Foreign intervention is even applauded and praised.

this literal Holla Forums tier conspiracy drivel
as other posters have said, you are retarded and need to read some fucking books about how the oil industry works

if anything, Saudi Arabia collapsed the price of oil in order to fuck with Russia over Syria and kill the burgeoning fracking in the US
but there were at least a half-dozen other major factors at play

Does that surprise anyone? At this point people would accept an alien government takeover and accept ET as their new overlord.

What, because the government is so incompetent?
I'd rather have an alien takeover than fucking Pinochet all over again

The Price drop WAS NOT orchestrated by US or by a global porky cabal to disrupt Venezuela. It was probably what user said in spoilertext. Just unfortunate timing, and a pussified OPEC (Iran, Russia…) who can't stand up to the Saudis.

The Sanctions, Political Machinations and Violent Opposition on the other hand, WERE and ARE orchestrated by the US, the local bourgeoisie, and Oil Porkies.
nytimes.com/2017/07/27/business/venezuela-sanctions-oil-maduro-vote.html

Venezuela opposition reports 14 dead
chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-venezuela-elections-20170730-story.html

7 police motorcycles lit on fire after explosion
el-nacional.com/noticias/oposicion/siete-motos-incendiaron-altamira-tras-explosion-artefacto_196105

Military vehicle lit on fire
el-nacional.com/noticias/protestas/manifestantes-incendiaron-tanqueta-gnb-paraiso-plaza_196060

More stuff
telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/30/venezuela-votes-controversial-election-super-power-assembly/

youtube.com/watch?v=e92OUVTImNg

fuck off man

Is Venezuela Marxist? That's what the Economist told me.

fuck off retard

Statistics pulled from his own ass.

...

jacobinmag.com/2017/07/venezuela-elections-chavez-maduro-bolivarianism

Fucking finally The Jacobin issued a corrective on their awful article on Venezula. What a breath of fresh air.

Wow. Communism fails again. I'm shocked.

Not really. Time and time it's been proven that free elections and free markets lead to a free people. People like Maduro are dinosaurs in the 21st century.

I hope he steps down peaceful and his people get to have the freedoms and liberties they deserve.

spooky

ITT: gommies are unable to explain why Venezuela was relying on imported food despite being a tropical paradise situated on the equator

nice devil trips you got there buddy

Tell me which ones you think he pulled then. Oh, that's right you didn't bother watching the video

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OPEC's decision to increase oil production during their latest business cycle, devalueing the price of oil that Venezuela is reliant upon.

does anyone have my deleted post? the copypaste didn't work.
I forgot the obesity rate pictures.

And they did it because they wanted to stop the American oil fracking boom.
They didn't want America to be self sufficient when it comes to oil and they were happy to fuck over the rest of the world in the process.

fracking is done for gas, not oil. But your post is mostly right.

Price controls, it's all about price controls. Even with all the other factors, things wouldn't have gotten this bad if they had removed price controls, which shouldn't have been enacted in the first place.

Every day I grow more convincing that attacking offices and equipment of mainstream media outlets is not only a legitimate revolutionary tactic, but a moral imperative.

Well. Time to declare it not real socialism, I guess.

Jacobin is debunking one of its own writers? That's a first.

What makes Venezuela socialist?

Fucking kek, they saw that all international organizations were rejecting the elections and they added a trillion bullshit votes.

8 million votes taken by gunpoint by muh ebil regime

peaceful protesters airing grievances

Very peaceful, indeed

Where you getting these numbers from, user?

twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/891794419476819968
Why are liberals just as evil as conservatives?

Cadena nacional.

el-carabobeno.com/cne-8-millones-89-mil-320-venezolanos-manifestaron-voluntad/

Cus muh hegemony that evil russia wants to destroy

Am I missing something here? From all the accounts I've heard Venezuela has one of the tightest democratic processes in the world.

Their voting machines work well, but everything else in the voting process is what matters. Since nobody from the opposition is involved in counting the votes here, they can do whatever the fuck they want.

Venezuela uses electronic voting machines? Oh dear.

I meant the 7,5 million in 2013 and 5,6 million in 2015. There wasn't an ANC back then, as far as i know.

The machines also print a paper backup ballot

Those are pro-PSUV/GPP votes in the presidential (2013) and parliamentary (2015) elections. Since the opposition is boycotting the elections (because it violates the constitution), nobody that voted for the opposition would vote on this.

Fuck off CIA shill. The voting process works fine. Polls were predicting Maduro would win by double digits in his presidential race and everyone was shocked that the result was so close. If the Chavistas were rigging every vote they wouldn't be so dumb as to allow a 51-50 or whatever the fuck the margin was, they'd be rigging it like Putin to ensure constant large majorities.

Means little in the end unless a hand-counted audit of the paper trail occurs at some point.

(citation needed)

Yeah, so? Does that contradict anything that I said?

>Article 348: The initiative for calling a National Constituent Assembly may emanate from the President of the Republic sitting with the Cabinet of Ministers; from the National Assembly, by a two-thirds vote of its members; from the Municipal Councils in open session, by a two-thirds vote of their members; and from 15% of the voters registered with the Civil and Electoral Registry.

He can only act on an initiative (like a referendum) so he asked the Supreme Court (TSJ) to let him say "I am the people" and they did.

That ain't true. Not everybody who voted for an opp candidate last time is an ideologue or hardliner or follows every order the opp leaders hand down. And electing people to redraft the constitution is a pretty big deal. There may be lots of people who think boycotting it is facking stupid.

Show me at least 5 candidates that don't support the government.

348 makes it sound constitutional to me.

But question, which body does the Vla constitution say decides what is or isn't constitutional?

i don't know the candidates. maybe if you boycott the process and don't participate in nominating candidates you wind up with no candidates on your side. Also, if you fire a gun at your foot you might wind up with a gunshot in your foot.

I'll fix it: 2 candidates for one municipality, 3 for one sector

Yeah, it did, namely the objectivity of the counters. Since you allege they're all fucking chavistas why the fuck did Maduro fail to get even a 55% majority in his presidential election? And if the voting process is so fucked why the fuck did the opposition
call for EARLIER elections to take place
? Kys.

The Supreme Court, obviously. But the Supreme Court can't stop US and EU sanctions.

I'm talking about this election, retard.

THIS

If you refuse to take part in an election why the hell would anyone represent you in that election?

So what makes you think that anyone from the opposition would vote for this?

Well, considering that they threatened to take away jobs from state workers and offered social benefits that may have filled the gap. I dunno though.

you're assuming that anyone who voted for an opp candidate last time is "the opposition". Lesser-evilism is a common thing. Voting for someone in one election doesn't mean you're in lockstep with them or their ideas or movements.

What makes you think that it would apply to this election? A lot of candidates proposed fixing things that aren't in the constitution (government corruption and regular laws).

There were a lot of barricades, riots and burned/broken voting machines all over the country too.

Who says they did?

6 200 000 = 20% of pop so approx Maduro's base.

caracaschronicles.com/2017/06/14/datanalisis-everything-is-terrible-but-not-everyone-hates-maduro/
Source is anti-Chavista site.

Opposition claims 7000000 voted in their "election".

Venezuela is home to 31 million. That leaves 17,800,000 unaccounted votes.

Holy shit, 6 month olds can vote too?

Yearning for Daddy Trump to starve your fellow countrymen enough to achieve your political goals. No wonder so many think "the opposition" are a bunch of scum.

15-24 years: 17.27% (male 2,709,359/female 2,629,097)
25-54 years: 40.4% (male 6,182,604/female 6,304,876)
55-64 years: 7.84% (male 1,162,400/female 1,260,451)
65 years and over: 6.82% (male 952,627/female 1,155,313) (2016 est.)

indexmundi.com/venezuela/age_structure.html

Fucking pedantic. Point is, there's a lot of unclaimed votes.

There are 19,805,002 registered voters. Taking a high 85% turnout (no presidential election has reached a turnout that high, probably because a lot of deaths aren't reported to the CNE and 150+ year olds aren't unregistered automatically) would leave us with around 16.8 million potential voters. 27% of that (best poll) is 4,536,000.

Where are da proofz billy?

What, why? Opposition = 7000000. So those are abstaining. Just take that out and you have your pool of potential voters = 12,805,002.

I was wrong: the 1983 presidential elections had a turnout of over 87%.

Come on man.

I'm talking about polls for/against the Constitutional Assembly. es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elecciones_a_la_Asamblea_Nacional_Constituyente_de_Venezuela_de_2017#Opini.C3.B3n_p.C3.BAblica

Hinterlaces is owned by a Constitutional Assembly candidate if you're wondering why their result is so different.

Well the point was to erode the confidence in democracy and put uncertainty even in election results where you have high confidence that the votes were fairly counted and secure. Election boycotts poison the well on the thing they're voting on forever, and in Venezula this has extended to the whole government, successfully delegitimizing an otherwise functioning democracy. It's a way people in a democracy can overthrow the government from a minority position. I wonder why election boycotting is not talked about that often?

if I get it right the government used oil money to subsidize cheap imports instead of investing (like Norway did with their oil money) right?

Here's some opposition terrorism today. They're now just adopting tactics of Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

But hey, gotta stop people from voting somehow.

It's a legitimate form of protest.

>jacobinmag.com/2017/07/venezuela-elections-chavez-maduro-bolivarianism
George Ciccariello-Maher:

Very surprised that they are publishing this. Good!

Thought the opposition was going to be the people on motorcycles.

No it's not you porky bootlicker

This notoriety is actually misplaced - it's reliability in terms of 'errors per page' is very close to traditional encyclopedias such as Encyclopedia Britannica. Deliberate 'errors' such as propaganda are a whole 'nother ballgame, of course.

It's not misplaced at all because wikis suffer fundamentally from something static print encyclopedias don't: mutability. A source you cite one day can be a difference source the next. It's always preferable to track down the sources some anonymous person on Wikipedia cited for a particular statement than to cite a page itself.

I think it's not. An average 'errors per page' stat would not really capture the problem. It would hide it. There are thousands of wiki pages about all sorts of non-controversial persons and topics throughout history. These would likely contain few "errors". The problem are the pages that touch on controversial topics and persons and controversial current/recent events. These pages are often just absolute shit because they can be easily hijacked by people with an agenda and a lot of time on their hands.

can someone elaborate in detail what price controls are present in Venezuela?

The other problem is the failure over the years to come up with a truly reliable definition of "reliable source". So many facts are lost and lies are propelled by people able to game the system of reliable source designation.

why are these stupid fuckers importing petroleum products from the usa?

Their refineries are dying due to lack of maintenance.

are these guys actually retarded or something?

Maybe.

tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/crude-oil-production

Look at the 10 year graph.

An article about the refineries: reuters.com/article/us-refinery-operations-pdvsa-idUSKCN0XN2RS

I wish Maduro would just self-coup, hand power to a seemingly independent socialist and fuck off to some beach villa away from the seat of power tbh

Didn't Maduro just plain disregard a petition for an election? Was it legit or not?

I can't give much detail, but these misguided price controls tend to be used on basic goods like food and hygiene products, because they're usually enacted by leaders desperate to contain inflation, for a popularity boost or to simply help the poor.

This page seems to have a good list. Yeah yeah, Wikipedia sucks, I know: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortages_in_Venezuela#List_of_items_affected

Even sacramental bread has price control, wew lad

Still using price controls (outside of some very specific cases) by the year $CURRENT_YEAR just might be proof they're retarded, yeah. Poor countries aren't renowned for having good economists.

Maduro's a soft cock, Lopez should be executed

Can someone explain to me what it was they just voted on exactly? I'm lost

Lol if you're a moron who only pays attention during tankie outrage. The pink tide issue was 100% pro chavismo.

The state deserves no peace, fuck 'em all.

It is, you haven't been here, you don't know how bad the repression of legit peaceful protests have been.

Suddenly the people strike back somehow and they lose legitimacy?

go fuck yourself first worlder piece of garbage.

I hope it gets so bad we all die.

they were electing members for a constituent assembly draft a new constitution.

The opposition didn't want this to happen, so they claimed it was unconstitutional for the president to call such a vote. The supreme court ruled it was ok. So the opposition decided to boycott the whole process and glorious uprising and start blowing shit up instead of voting. The government went ahead with the vote anyway and now the assembly is full of Chavistas.

They voted to rewrite their constitution I think.

there was no way to vote against it fool. you could only vote for the people who would get in, and Miraflores already has a plan in place of what they want in the new constitution with no regards as to what the constituents want to do.

I didn't say there was faggot. It was voting on who would be in the assembly.

source?

The middle of the most desperate political and economical crisis Venezuela has faced, the centralised state that lost its national assembly to the opposition a chance to rewrite the constitution and bypass this problem and gain an ever tighter grip on the nation.

Do you really think they're going to *let* the people fuck around and not get them the tools they need to remain in power?

would it be any different anywhere else in the world?

are they ok?

Hope not.

Maduro simply cannot steer this ship, nobody in the PSUV can, this is gotten out of hand and they're either hanging on to power because they are obstinate ideologues unable to surrender no matter the cost or because they are too corrupt and need the plataform to keep their cartel going.

Either way it's all going down, and as usual it's the man on the streets who is suffering because of it.

When it comes down to it, I'm not mourning a single death, not a one.

Here's hoping you're first

from what i heard, several were injured but none died

ITT: Civil war predictions

Everyone wants to be gangsta until its time to do real gangsta shiet.

You're not risking your neck out here, I know what kind of half-cocked revolutionary cowards you all are.

Those are the only two choices huh? There's no possibility that reactionaries overthrowing the government and them being executed in some jungle ditch isn't a factor?

Yeah that isn't a factor, you don't know what sort of "reactionaries" you are talking about here.

Nobody in their right mind, not even Chavistas think that anyone relevant inside or outside of the MUD has either the balls or the support to carry out executions.

That is absolutely unthinkable, most opositores think their leaders are limpwristed faggots, and the civilians are neither armed nor organized to carry out the persecution themselves.

Only two kinds of people in this country are armed. Government forces and Malandros, and the vast majority of malandros stand with the government (tren de Aragua, Pranes, etc.).

Hasta la neoliberalismo siempre, comrade!

Irony is that this could happen: the rural indigenous people massively support the PSUV since:
a) a lot are subsistence farmers and thus are fine food-wise
b) they got investment from the government
c) they had recognition of their language and local rights.

So, who is ready for the immortal dialectical science of Chavez-communialism. Uphold Zapatista-Bookchin thought!

Your spanish sucks, Mamaguevo pajuo, neoliberal el abuelo tuyo, marico triste.

If you could provide some kind of evidence then I would appreciate it, because there are several reports of members of the opposition being armed or forming armed groups. Unless you're that "Venezuelan" from the other Venezuela thread that just knows these things.

In any event it isn't as though the CIA would be above doing it for them, even if none of these reactionaries "has the balls."

a number of Chavistas were executed after the 2002 coup briefly succeeded. But no worries, i'm sure they've purged all the fascist elements since then. They're all just friendly liberals now.

so no source then, k

Anyway, since the opposition chose not to vote the whole thing is packed with government supporters. They don't need this supposed plan anyway now.

You got some balls asking for sauce while claiming something you have no sauce for yourselves.

Thanks, that's kind of you to say. I haven't provided any sauce though because I haven't got any. One source says one thing, and one says another, so I really don't know for sure either way. For the previous user to make those statements so confidently, I figure that he must have some pretty solid evidence of some kind. If it's really so definitive then I'd be glad to see it and be proven wrong, if he's kind enough to provide it.

there's no source for anything then, everyone's flying blind distrusting each other's words on things.

What sauce is being asked for here, about what?

Unfortunately that seems to be the case.

The poster here

Made what I thought to be some rather bold claims, so I asked for some evidence to back them up. I think it's pretty incredible to say that the opposition is completely unarmed and unable or unwilling to execute their opponents, or at least have the Americans do it for them.

The US has been gunning for Venezuela for a long time now, so I can't help but disbelieve that the US isn't supporting the opposition in some material and/or logistical way.

p a r t
a
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c
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They don't like unstable economies. When a country has 20% monthly inflation, it fucks everything up.