What went wrong?
What went wrong?
Letting the CIA in and trusting the Americucks
After they've stormed the Winter Palace, the counter-revolutionary forces won.
The world revolution failed.
Not allowing or acting hostile towards workers self management and direct democracy in general, along with slowly drifting away from somewhat socialist ideals after Stalin's death, especially with Pizza Hut Man
emphasis on taylorist development of the means of production over democracy.
Revisionist trotskyite orcs
Also, Che Guevara eventually criticized the USSR for acting imperialistic and installing client states in the Third World rather allowing the people themselves to manage their own destiny and lead a revolution. Even though I find it ironic as he was an avowed Stalinist, this made me gain a whole new level of huge respect for him
What do you mean what went wrong? The world's first socialist revolution began isolated, disorganized, facing overwhelming odds against the entire worlds in an impoverished, famine-struck backwater. Everything went wrong, and it only got worse from there.
The important thing is that the (ongoing) struggle for socialism in Russian conditions should be defended from fanatical anti-Soviet lunatics. There were many triumphs worthy of celebration. Fuck the mainstream bourgeois-anarchist narrative.
I agreed with everything up until
The only group I can think your referring to is ancaps, that makes more sense then calling actual anarchist bourgeois
1921 happened: libcom.org
Did I miss something?
Failing at Warsaw
What went wrong??
Lots of things but mostly revisionism.
What caused it??
A lack of total democracy
Please tell me how that, caused this
they shut down the gulags and lived off the suff they produced untill the inevitable bankruptcy sine they could not compete without the free goods they produced
communist soviet russia failed in every field except '1st man in space'
I was just comparing the identical anarchist and liberal narratives on Russia.
Yes, you missed that Russia is full of humans apparently. So long as a single potential socialist lives there is a struggle.
Meant to type large-scale revolution but neglected it.
Stalin was paranoid, the party consumed itself because democratic centralism is retarded , the socdems killed Rosa and finally the economy was mismanaged and developed wrong.
too many 'leftists' on here are unable to see russians as anything other that evil NPC putlerbots with no revolutionary potential whatsoever. I blame american propaganda narratives. Russia has huge problems that could be answered by a leftist movement.
according to whose plan?
the coplapse was the result of the strict following of the communist ideology
They tried to invade Poland like Hitler and go their shit pushed in. Serves them right for being warmongers
The entirety of human history up until that point. Sadly, it didn't break that trend.
I thought we talked about the actually existing left-wing in Russia and not about empty rhetoric.
Maybe yes, maybe no, what matters is that the current state of the left in Russia is not too impressive considering the quality of KPRF and the irrelevance of the left outside of that party.
"Communist ideology" says nothing about how to plan and control the economy, in general the soviet economy is arguably not even communist as the mechanisms of capitalist commodity production where mostly still in place. But its not really important how you call the system, it was managed badly and the planners lacked the flexigillity and foresight to spot some crucial problems(or react to them because of political constraints imposed by the retarded one party system). The massive economic drain that the military was didnt help either.
It's my main criticism with ML in general, in that, even though they were striving towards communism, the DoTP eventually came to be interpreted as the party/state having power over the people in the Eastern Bloc rather than people having the power, even though it's the people who are driving force behind the popular social revolution, and take part in suppressing the bourgeoisie and creating a new society for everyone to engage and have a voice in; all class relations are material in basis and the proletariat is inseparable from the MoP. This is why I think Luxemburg is my favorite Marxist. However, ironically, I think that the authoritarian left has better arguments for statism than the right; authoritarian leftists support the state as a means to build socialism and promote social justice and egalitarianism, while authoritarian rightists support it to protect "muh tradition", "muh culture", and "muh might"
Yes, the performance of the left carrying out the "(ongoing) struggle for socialism in American conditions" is really far from satisfactory, I'm glad we agree.
The German revolution failed. If both Russia and Germany had gone red then the USSR wouldn't have been in so desperate a situation, and could have maintained its democratic institutions and actual worker's control.
Stalin and Trotsky tbh
Without them we would have had a place run by the soviets, in co-operation with an anarchist commune and much more autonomy given and decentralization of power.
I don't exactly like lenin, but it really could have worked.
Ironic how the most radical proponents of democracy and decentralization are always the first to fall into Great Man Theory.
Fuck off liberal
They are not identical at all.
If you knew your father would you say that about him, Poliqua?
I've seen quite a few anarkiddies and socdems swallow the Russian Subversion narrative hook, line, and sinker. I'm not pro Putin by any means, but this is a narrative promoted by a security state that wants to shift the blame away from the american system and into this sinister all-powerful foreign threat.
Considering that trotsky was highly influential and probably the one to convince lenin to crush the makhnovists and Stalin was the one who built up the political base with bureaucrats I'd say it's less me going into "great man theory" and analyzing a situation in which the realm of power was highly centralized and controlled by a single party
curse the SPD.
Battle of Warsaw.
lack of cybernetics
Marx,Engels and the likes obviously.
I am on Polands side and hate socialism and the EU. Now although i disagree with the messege, fuck that made me laugh.
Good humour lefty/pol/, and i thought you cunts could not meme
Lenin's autistic "right of self determination" for every Soviet republic.
Self determination = self destruction and capitalist restoration. History proves this consistently.
This is actually a Holla Forums meme
The Bolsheviks were too efficient in taking power. They ended up ruling the country without enough sincere partisans, flling the gaps with opportunists.
Everything else stem from that.
Ah! now it makes sense.
The Germans didn't succeed in their revolution.
they didn't invade europe,
And all from the same tribe.
Stalin didn't go all the way to the Atlantic.
Why don't you take a close look at each of the sources?
Nope, the Opportunists were Russian, the Partisans were Jewish.
Guess you're tired, comrade.
Boris Yeltsin. Boris fucking Yeltsin killed the Soviets.
Can't help but agree. People usually who dog on USSR I find to be the most likely to repeat anti-communist propaganda and the first to bitch when times get tough.
i laughed out loud at this one. best meme on here i've seen in a long time lmao
Speaking of which, the only one with any renown is a typical muh-100-gorillion hack: russia-insider.com
That pretty much the most realistic and succint portrayal of modern Poland.
-The idea of needing capitalism to "develop" to a state that would make socialism possible.
-The very concept of a vanguard party.
-Some asshole declaring that state capitalism was, in fact, socialism and we could all stop fighting now.
Lenin said in a speech before he died that they had achieved state capitalism. Are you going to tell me he was wrong?
It seems like the "tankie" in that comic stated not one but two historical facts.
Stalin. Totally Stalin.
But at least he fucked Hitler up.
This comic is not about you or Lenin being wrong about State Capitalism.
The Russian people fucked Hitler up, Stalin just sent them in the meat grinder.
the same would have happened under Lenin which was much better than Stalin.
Sure is great man theory in here.
I'm sorry user, but it's a bit true. Not because these men were great, but because they wielded great weapons.
This is so incredibly silly.
What a fucking suprise.
Stagnation. Trotsky shoulda been Lenin's replacement and steamrolled over the rest of the world with the message of communism so Porky wouldn't have got a chance to catch his breath. You can't close yourself off from the world and live in your socialist society before workers throughout most of the world ain't been liberated yet and not expect capitalism to seep in through the cracks like silent and deadly radiation till you're left with nothing but shitty state capitalism.
Didn't they loose in Poland?
yea, a backward shithole destroyed by the civil war would've stemrolled the rest of europe
and people who after the ww1 and civil war wanted peace would've accepted another war for some communist ideal
people don't like real hard wars, they like easy cheap victories with air superiority so they can go home and be heroes and brag to girls about how close they looked death in the eyes
world revolution failed in the 1920's, so it devolved into stalinism
*After* industrialisation. Trotsky wasn't stupid, he knew worldwide socialism couldn't be achieved without a strong socialist superpower as it's backbone till capitalism took it's last breath.
They weren't an actual council of equally represented socialist states as the name implied. I blame Stalin for that.
You're not wrong. Lenin was in many ways an idealist and a liberal.
Trotsky wanted power more than anything. He was willing to sell out the USSR as long as he got the seat of power just like Stalin. Don't get why trots act like he would not have done the same things Stalin did. Why do you think he went out of his way to start another civil war.
is there not an entire thread going right now legit about these infographs and why they're fucking retarded? neck yourself dude
Capitalist encirclement, Nazi invasion, capitalist encirclement.
The USSR after the Civil War was a ruined land with a smaller population and much smaller industrial base than the capitalist powers, which had in fact intervened in the Civil War and established a string of reactionary states to the West of Russia (Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria - almost all of whom would end up invading come 1941, excepted partitioned Poland). Frankly, the Stalinists did the best they could given this terrible strategic position. They way the built up the industrial base through accelerated primitive accumulation and rational planning was nothing short of miraculous, especially given the lack of specialists.
Then the Nazis invaded and the USSR lost some 25 million people and saw its most heavily industrialized areas and most productive farmland utterly destroyed. After the war, they did manage to establish a ring of buffer states where before there had been the fascist attack dogs of the capitalism, but even then they were still stuck with control over a much, much smaller industrial and technological base, and found themselves locked out of gaining allies in the West because of NATO, CIA operations like Gladio, etc. I almost don't fault Khrushchev for trying a different path given that rather hopeless situation.
The real problem was that the revolution happed in Russia, in stead of Germany or Britain.
Trotsky planned attempt convert Germany in communist ruled state.
if you're gonna be this fucking retarded can't you at least use the Winter War as an example?
the food supply
People blaming Khrushchev and revisionism for the fall of the Soviet Union is borderline idealist thinking. They didn't build political institutions that were capable of sufficiently adapting to changing conditions and combined with the Imperialist strategy of containment during the cold war rendered some sort of economic collapse more likely to have harsher consequences.
Technologically backwards nation. Couldn't do shit against the USA with all their money and power and computers and the CIA.
is that why they were first nation in space and pioneers in virology, not to mention invented the most famous and popular video game of all time?
You didn't choose Bukharin.
Gorbachov destroyed it because he wanted some pizza hut