/leftyfem/ general

does anyone have any good feminist literature, like a reading list? especially if it relates to patriarchy and its relation to sexual assault/rape culture, and ways to counter it.

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Juliet Mitchel The Woman's Estate.

try harder Holla Forums
there is an actual Holla Forums feminist reading list but its not about rape culture, pronouns or 'patriarchy'

Fasten your seatbelts.


Nobody ITT is actually a woman, feminism is for dudes who think they can attract bookworm girls with it

I love when I see reaction images I know I introduced to Holla Forums

thanks m8

im not advocating "muh idpol" over class consciousness. but you're lying to yourself if you think patriarchy & rape culture don't exist in some form, including america, but especially worldwide.

the entire reason i even made this thread is because i was explaining anarchism to people and someone asked me "how will rape be addressed without the state" and i had to make an off the cuff explanation that rape comes as a result of the alienation that comes about through hierarchy, specifically patriarchal upbringing (this was on the wikipedia page on sexual assault: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence ) and how anarchists wish to abolish all forms of hierarchy, including patriarchy.

Where did you find it? I like the style.

This is why people call you utopians.

not an argument

If our paths ever cross, I'm treating you to a beer, a coffee, or a joint.

pic related, its basically loli punisher
But if you're a weeaboo who likes pure and innocent waifus she is none of that she's not even a virgin and has a bf

Dumbfucks are going to ruin all of your dreams m8. The stupid are the largest and most dangerous demographic on the planet.

I'm not keen on lolis, purity, or innocence, but I do like tomboys. Is she /my girl/?

If there was such thing as rape culture, rapes would not be considered criminal offence.

not even a feminist but that's a weak ass argument that misses the point


what you typed:

what i read

laws =/= no issue. whats the point of whats written on a piece of paper if it doesn't actually change anything? that's peak liberalism m8.

pic related.

So rape culture is then something that is not even related to positive promotion of rape then? gr8 b8 m8 would deb8 again.

There is no point for feminism.

If women become equal due to social then so be it but otherwise its pointless to think you can change the super structure without changing the base of society,

Also I don't even see feminism as desirable

really makes you think

most feminists who talk about rape culture refer to both the legal response to rape and the social reactions to it.

Except you don't have any way to stop rape in anarchy because you have no way of stopping the more subtle hierarchies from forming naturally, nor can you re-educate the entire population and convince them to believe the same things you do to stop them perpetuating the conditions that allow rape to occur. That's the difference between seizing the MoP and permanently halting the conditions for rape to occur.
The simple solution to your problem would be to have everyone armed, so you can shoot your rapist. The rapist may shoot you first to stop you shooting them, but then everyone is allowed to shoot them for murder. That's the most practical way to implement what you want.

you can start by carrying a mattress around with you at all time, you know for solidarity or something

She isn't very tomboyish but she's a brutal killer if you're into that.

Legal response almost universally is imprisonment. Social reactions to rapists can be descried as those of lynching and further alienation and isolation of rapists form wider society.

No, you're just a dumbass. "Rape culture" is not a thing,

i was referencing patriarchy in that sentence, not rape culture (although they're related), and i specifically had the US in mind. but now that you mention it, here's a video that gives the rundown on rape culture better than i can: youtube.com/watch?v=xJxEyWE0-cU

the base leads to the super structure, but the super structure can then take on a life of its own. sexism still existed in catalonia, after all: anarchyinaction.org/index.php?title=Revolutionary_Spain

you probably cant definitively forever put a stop to rape, but you can sure make it so rare that community self defence/restorative justice is a reasonable option.

you can reeducate the overwhelming majority of the population to specifically agree with me that you should respect peoples sexual boundaries and conditioning men into dominating gender roles is dumb.

no argument detected

so? just because you do away with capitalism doesn't mean you do away with sexism. We had sexism before capitalism so it would make sense that we have it after but over time it lessens and eventually it will go away.

I seriously hope you proles don't do this.
Polite sage.

>sexism still existed in catalonia an era of war and revolution, in a time when social progress was going backwards for the rest of Europa and the US was full racism.

It's like you cannot change society just like that, or someting!!!
It's like you need a transitionary period, a state and so on, or something!!!!

you didn't even sage faget
typical aussies

Well excuuuuuuuuuuuse me.

progress for the sake of progress isn't inherently good

it's funny because state socialists like Lenin actively repressed feminist women within the party because they refused to prioritize class struggle.

really? do you have a source?

Women should not be workers, thus politics of class don`t involve them.

I don't have an exact source on hand but you can look up the writings of a lot of bolshevik women like Kollontai who disagreed with male leadership about the role of women and got sidelined.

not a surprise

Get WOKE my man.

Nice try Holla Forums

im agreeing with you in my comment lol.

"MUH IDPOL1!!!!!111!111!!"

that doesn't excuse sexism and proves my point as to why feminism is necessary
no. try again.

i see class struggle as just as important as smashing patriarchy. if i didn't say this then you'd have reasonable suspicion of me being a Holla Forumsyp, but i didn't.

So the deal with idpol is basically this:

At some point the last 40 years for a variety of reasons, forced break up of unions, brutal suppression of demonstration, cointelpro,outright murder in the case of Fred Hampton etc, foreign military intervention wherever it took root, clandestine suppression, the west became pampered with social democracy, people in general were tired of conflict, the USSR broke up.

Basically, the left has been bashed and bashed hard. Bashed so hard that it has the class element and revolutionary element stamped right out of it.

Now, instead of the woman's movement and the civil rights movement being part of a broader class struggle, they became isolated struggles and made gains, which is a good thing, personally I still think there is more to be done on both fronts, the existence of pol and R9K are proof of this. We NEED racial and gender analysis and we shouldn't stop until all those angry closet homo repressed whatever fucks can get over their spooks.

Also in their departure from class politics they lost holistic analysis of the situation, which means advocating, among other things, for rape cases not to have Juries, or for women to be instantly believed when they claim to have been raped and not thoroughly questioned. Most seem to have no conception of the capitalist's prison system and how male POC (and white males) would be slammed into prisons at unprecedented rates for things they didn't do and how this culture of criminalisation will further compound pressure on the working class through inter-generational spirals of crime.

Also in their departure from class struggle and combined with the capitalist classes co-option of these struggles for their own gains, Hillary Clinton case in point, people are now happy to vote for the most diabolical capitalist because he/she/other genders says nice stuff about POC and woman's rights.

In the case of both, false gains are made. No matter how you legislate for gender equality, while capital accumulation still exists, the place of people of colour will be as workers and not as capitalists, as it is the nature of capital to be inherited. While culture may improve and they may elevate themselves to the position of the white worker, they will still be a worker and the whites will still be workers. Again, because of the structural economic inequality, progress will be extremely slow and likely go backwards at points (like right now with pussy grabber in power).

Women are similarly affected by past cultural bars on them owning property, and so are also very far behind in the property owning game. In the west this gap is rapidly closing , in the third world it is still extremely large.

Its not that feminism is a bad thing, but the co-option of feminism has turned out to be a bad thing.

We have the recent development where identity based political movements are actively dismissing class first politics, saying that it takes away from identity based struggle.

TLDR, the left got bashed, lost class analysis, identity struggles which used to be part of the broader class struggle became co-opted and in doing so lost holistic analysis of the whole system and became actively opposed to revolutionising of the whole system in some places. This co-option also allows the capitalist class to pretend to be nice by saying nice stuff about brown people and women.

Can we please stop talking about this now.


btw, feminists just want a more swedish based model of investigating rape by having a broader definition and investigating all claims, not literally throwing people accused of rape in jail.>>1695100

Glad to hear my Leninism goes hand in hand with my Brocialism.
Marx did it too. And he was right.

We need to fix the mode of production before we deal with "muh vagina".

No I have definitely seen advocation of no jury trials and unquestioned belief before.

tbf nobody with any academic merit was talking about unquestioned belief. But taking jury's away from rape trials is part of the movement in Britain where I am from.


O. well they're dumb but at least you get me.

there is literally no reason why you can't do both.

No, it's not.
It's what neoliberalism wanted and got. Spook (gender, race, religion) rights are no rights at all. There is only class and as long the bourgies are in controll there are no gains. "But I can now marry my boyfriend!" SO WHAT?
Fucking upper middle class ideologies…

Americanocentrism UK is US for Europa and race is a spook.
Also, POC is a slur, meaning "there are people that are white and people that are not, so all whites are the same and japanes and subsaharants are also the same, but different to whites". You can't even define white. Fuckin liberals…

Yes, I have a problem with semantics!

When bitches will start complaining about "but what about muh rape culture? Comrade Ivan rejected me last night!" and so on, you can't.

Any other form of feminism is not dissregarded, as it's already part of the ideology.

not an argument

???. advancing women, gay and ethnic minority rights aren't gains? class may be at the core but you're pretending as though people don't have other aspects to themselves.

this is true tbh fam

oh please. Yeh its totally no better now because the class issues hasn't changed… only it was much, much worse even 40 years ago and the class issue hasn't changed.

You realise people like Malcolm X were born in a world with regular lynchings. That was a capitalist society, this is also a capitalist society, why does this one not have lynchings and the other does?

Oh fuck off, you're either a Holla Forumsyp or COINTELPRO

Consider, being gay was still a crime up until the 80's in Scotland. Class issues have certainly not changed all that much, but now we are extremely excepting of gays, in fact all our major party leaders are gay.

They aren't. It's just a bunch of liberal bullshit, it doesn't oppose capitalism or even destroy it. It just serves as a reactionary honey pot for porky to make a buck out of.

god why does leftypol have so much right wing idpol?

Capitalism is not the sole form of hierarchy m8y. Issues of hierarchy could very well exist in a socialist society, due to the fact that hierarchy existed before class society did.

any classless society would make solving those issues of hierarchy much easier.
Patriarchy (and i mean actual patriarchy, not the feminist buzzword) evolved because men and women adopted different social roles during the agricultural revolution. In a socialist society where divisions of labor aren't a problem anymore they would have different roles as well.

Forcing the 8h workday was far more gain than "Bob and James can now get married". Liberal gains, while capitalism is intact are no actual gains.

I mean… GB didn't have lynchings! It was capitalist too! India on the other hand had/has other problems!

It's like these are cultural problems that serve as scapegoats as long as it suits the bourgies, or something!

Also, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

I mean.. It's like we have achieved this and nothing changed!
It's also like we could have gone there far earlier, if it wasn't for capitalism or something!

Brocialism. Love it or leave it.

What is historical materialism?
Why is communism a future utopia?

Are you fucking retarded? You either a liberal, a Holla Forumsyp or COINTELPRO. Read Marx's analysis on history, or fuck off.

You posted in the wrong commune, bucko.

Advances in women's rights was the worst thing that happened to the left! right to vote was not really relevant, but what followed it(women entering the workforce more permanently) lead to complete collapse of wages creating a situation where single earner could no longer support his family by himself. Wages in relative terms dropped by half due to "advancements" in women's rights, and only made labor cheaper for the capitalists, weakened the wages alongside trade unions and stalled any hope of general revolution until the unfolding of the great war.

Classless societies do not necessitate the end of hierarchical relationships though. Gerontocracy and other forms of hierarchy are not necessitated by economic relationships, though that's not to say they're mutually exclusive either. Instead of just having senseless kneejerk reactions to feminism, we should distinguish between legitimate forms of feminism like that practiced in Rojava and illegitimate forms like what pervades most modern western discourse on the subject.

Politics around identity groups are pretty unavoidable mate. Even if that identity is formed by economic relationships, it still remains an identity. Yeah class society has only existed for the last 10000 years m8. For somebody who says "read marx" I would have thought that you would be familiar with such concepts as primitive communism.

Historical Materialism doesn't actually address hierarchy pre-class society. Historical Naturalism does though.

nice strawman.

what did you mean by this?

when did i say sexism was more important than class? they're equally important.

so not having to worry about being lynched by a mob for being black/gay/etc. aren't gains and just don't matter to you. you can advance these causes and also not be a liberal ya know.

its not really right wing idpol but still fucking this. you mention feminism literally one time and everyone starts vehemently declaring you to be COINTELPRO or tumblr or plebbit or some shit in a desperate attempt to attract as many Holla Forumstards as possible.
its fine to attract more people but jesus christ this is getting ridiculous.

its still a gain nonetheless.

you can hate homophobia and porky. try telling what you just typed to a black person in the 60's.

i thought hierarchies came about from the base of productive forces, not from superstructure concepts like idpol.
do you, like, think before you type?
and stop pulling "muh COINTELPRO" out of your ass. its getting old.

how the fuck is pacifying the working class with temporary higher wages any better at pushing towards revolution exactly? your diagnosis is wrong.

this comment actually makes me think youre a troll, and ive seen the same flag clearly shitposting in otherwise serious threads on this board.

By stalling the insurrection by demolishing the organic workers movement that was quite revolutionary until the pacification that followed form 2nd generation feminism.

I never said that. I just said that solving other hierarchies would be easier in a classless society.
your putting words in my mouth. Show me where i said that all feminism was the same.


Not necessarily, since as I said these forms are not always related to economic relationships. Why would they be easier to form when they can be independent of class?
This was not directed at you so much as it was directed at the other people in this spread sperging out. Sorry for any confusion.

just go to your local campus commie group. That's what i did

Although, she filed rape charges when i whispered "im an anarcho capitalist" in her ear while i was cumming inside her.

Except civil rights are seperate to class struggle. It is idpol, caused by other idpol. That's not to say we're for racism, but these are liberal advancements, not leftist ones.

Well you thought fucking wrong now did you? I better forget about the notions of idpol heirarchies created by the Nazis who also shilled for class collaboration, while fucking over the working class even more.

Unless you're a liberal, then no. Again, fuck off.

There were not "hierarchies" pre Agricultural Revolution. Unless you mean "the elders (women mostly) say we should move there" = "hierarchy"

AKA where the modes of production is already being chalenged and they can now move forward. WOW! It's like we can start it right after we have decleared war on capitalism, or something!

Point is, your class is not chosen and it's not given at birth. You CAN change it and you WANT to change it, if you are a worker. You CAN'T stop being a woman unless you IDENTIFY as a man AKA you CHOSE an identity.

Modern leftism has already intergraded the advances IT ENFORCED on capitalism. Further discussion of it only serves capitalism in changing the focus of our struggle.
Brocialism 101.

Ok. Give me a time-machine and I will.

I whispered, "brocialism will win" when I did. Albeit now she's my gf.

Keep telling yourself that's the reason.

bullshit, there's no way an ancap would ever have sex with a college-aged woman.

Keep sperging about your dumb-fuck idpol. No one's buying your shit, we've smelt it.

Proletarian Feminism >> Brocialism >> Bourgeois Feminism >> Reactionaryism

'nuff said

>>Manarchism >> Brocialism >> Proletarian Feminism >>Bourgeois Feminism >> Reactionaryism


this definitely happened

Pic related.
Google Bookchin. Gerontocracy and patriarchy existed pre-agricutural revolution. Engles was using anthropological data that was new for it's time but is presently woefully outdated.
Yeah they're not purely feminist but you can't say that feminism isn't a massive part of what they're about. In fact, women are considered to be the revolutionary agents as opposed to the proletariat in DemCon ideology.
Sure. Identities don't have to be something you're born with. I don't know where I stipulated otherwise.

You still need a state to get from Capitalism to Communism, though.

Manarkids. When are they gonna learn.

I can argue over this all day and be fine. But when they make it about "muh feminism, race and other spooks, I rage for some reason

What if I choose to not call it feminism? :^)

Sure you could, but really what's the point about arguing over semantics? People are going to continue to use the term feminism to mean socialist movements like Rojava so why sperg out about the word?

mfw no proletarian feminist kurdish ypj gf.

they want my fascist baby killing dong

A "socialist" state will just devolve into ML faggotry, though. Socialism is communism and "socialist state" is an oxymoron.

Lelinists. They will never learn.

Ten year olds can't consent to your 2 incher.

molesting children doesn't make you a daddydom

im not sure why you would want an anfem gf. maybe 20% are bretty cute. the rest are either fat, crazy, dont shave, smell, or are idpol.

ok princess :^)

every right winger says this

gimme a hairy gf

Wew never saw this coming.

I fully agree, women cannot be revolutionary. Socialism doesn't allow women to leverage their vaginas for higher social status. Which is why lefty girls in the west tend to be ugly as shit.


I bet that nose piercing really pisses her dad off.

cmon m8.. you know a lot of leftie girls look…."used". that's because a lot of them are attracted to "bad boy" types. i know a girl who was an ancom, but dated a Hells Angel, lol. she tried to justify by saying she was trying to radicalize him and get the HA to support revolution or something like that. needless to say, she was excommunicated by all the leftie groups after they found out.

Also, a Lot of them are groupie types that will attach themselves to the nearest male with the highest social standing within a group.

The trick to telling a good story is to keep the reader hooked by suspending their disbelief.

maybe, but i don't want these people anywhere near a revolutionary movement.

Stop embarrassing yourself if you don't know about the Chilean student movement, gringo.

i wasn't talking about myself obviously. im more the badboi stereotype.

also social status is relative. obviously most of them dont stand a chance with the frat guys, or the football team, but they will attach themselves to the 30 year old, "community organizer", assistant professor in sociology, local antifa leader types.

hmmmm where have i heard this before……

Cease your autism kiddo.


fug u. i did 2 tours in afghanistan

This thread is comedy gold.

Trotsky was a pretty good general and he was just a nerd.

that's because you heard about all the warlords who owned child sex slaves right?

you realise only dumb bitches are like this. Maybe you think that because its the level of woman you go for i.e. on the same league as you. These are the same dumb whores who will demand to be bought things and treated like a princess. Its a free sexual market buddy, the price is fair

and yet its always right wingers who go on "I am virgin and I want the world to know about it" shooting sprees

Caliban and the Witch by Silvia Federici
Patriarchy and Accumulation on a World Scale by Maria Mies
Night-Vision by Butch Lee and Red Rover

I guess those are more material analyses of women as a class, for stuff specifically about rape culture, you should read Andrea Dworkin and Catherine Mackinnon. Intercourse is probably a good start.

Pick one, fucker.

And yet, USSR soldiers raped way more German women than you'd like to admit, and they loved it. :^)

im not a nazi. im not even a fan of "aryan" women

jesus christ
there's punk, then there's just… disgusting. Good god.

Women are vicious war machines that evolved to thrive and kill like every other pitiless life-form on this savage moldy rock.

Fear them.

I'd pick 'feminist' because Rosa was trash.

She was a feminist though.

If you were dominant, you wouldn't be worshipping an old hag's dried cunt.
Besides, despite stereotypes perpetuated among sad virgins, women actually prefer men who aren't fucking sociopaths.

I've never even read ayn rand.