Catalonia to immediately declare independence if no referendum held

elpais.com/elpais/2017/05/22/inenglish/1495435474_319567.html
Soon.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_breakdown_of_the_Spanish_general_election,_2016_(Congress)#Catalonia

I hope this will inspire Scotland to do it right this time.

Nice Alunya

And California too.


ids habbedings

why even live

There are any strong leftist movement right now in catalona actually fighting for indipendence or the cause is held only by some bullshit right wing populist party like in nothern italy?

Catalonia is legitimately left wing as fuck. Walk around in towns like Cerdanyola and you will see tons of anarchist and hammer-sickle graffiti.

The movement will probably not be some new socialist republic, the motivation is 90% anti-monarchist, but this is a huge stride in the right direction.

love our catalan friends but don't they declare this like every year?

Nice.

They can call it Calexit.

So in other words they are going to try to rejoin the EU and be forced to implement austerity like Syriza in Greece?

Is it that time again?

Pretty much.
Most of the Iberian separatist groups pull this sort of shit from time-to-time.
It is really all nothing but empty threats.

What they all really want (excluding the fringe crazies) is a Federal Iberian State.

with what guns without bullet Button's?

with what

This is the most unergonomic weapon I have seen. Fucking liberals.

Let's do it right this time

If California leaves the US and becomes indepdent, i hope Mexico conquers the shit out of it.

Good, they're finally leaving that conservative shithole, hopefully it rots away and get annexed by Morocco or something

Anyone here actually live in Catalonia?

why is this a good thing?

on what basis?!

nationalistic?

More like we're going to liberate Baja. They want independence too and it's about time for reunification. We're brothers who have been separated for over 200 years. Death to US and Mexican imperialism, tbh.

Contemporary Catalan autonomism is liberal-conservative at best unlike Basque autonomism which always retained a kernel of socialist rhetoric.

Because of this.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_breakdown_of_the_Spanish_general_election,_2016_(Congress)#Catalonia
Look at the member parties and programmes of the first two groups.

california would kick mexico's ass in that war

Wish Cascadia could be apart of this.

...

How do we benefit from Cataluña's independence?
Lots of right wing support this region's independence

It's shit.

lol

This. I like to wallow in Spanish Civil War nostalgia as much as the next guy, but the current Catalonian autonomist movement is not of the same lineage as 1930's revolutionary Catalonia. I suppose it will be useful in that it weakens the existing Spanish state which, even post-Franco, has not been terribly receptive (or as receptive as a bourgeois state gets) to the re-emergence of leftist movements on the national scene, but even then it would be a marginal benefit if that.

I feel like Scotland is the last real bastion of progressive nationalism in the 1st world, leave aside the meme-tier movements in america, the seperatists in spain, france, italy etc. all seem bougie as fuck.

as long as y'all don't try to drag British Columbia into anything with all you burgers then this would be cool

Just imagine if Catalonia does become independent and they co-opt the entire history of the Spanish Civil War for their bourgeois nationalism. I'd be livid.

California's pretty fucking capitalist and idpol infested tbh

...

A tax haven?

Oh god.
If they manage to pull this off, I can only hope that EU creates some kind of real embargo on them and starves these nationalist crypto-fascists to death.

a country where both the main parties are right wing, where abortion is still outlawed

scotland OTOH is a country where even our tories are crypto-socdems

the destabilization that it will cause is all that matters

I support this. fuck Spain

Scottish nationalism is weird. I mean it's sort of progressive, but part of the structural reason for this is just that our bourgs are usually integrated into the wider British bourgeoisie. (Meaning that for support the SNP has to rely on the liberal middle class, particularly public sector related ones who get punched in the jaws by the tories, the working class, and a few eccentric porkies to build a power-base.)

still based though.


kys

I disagree. Catalonias economy isn't as fucked as Greece. They would most certainly elect a socialistic/social democratic government which would be a role model for Europe when people starting to see that austerity is shit. The EU would be pissing its pants.

Nationalism is a gateway drug to fascism and imperialism.

they just want independance, I'm not sure it'll lead to actual nationalism. And globalism leads to capitalism, which is surely better than fascism but still awful (and the European Union is anti-democratic and imposes austerity on other countries).

celtic nationalism has basically always been about being upset about being beaten up by the eternal anglo. even the closest to an outright fascist movement (SnG, ethnic nationalists) that has yet arisen in scotland has been neither expansionist/warmonging nor imperialist in nature. (because any proposal of expansion except via consensual union with other celtic states would result in a return to fighting losing battles against stronger enemies.)

this is like whining about coffee, SSRIs or ritalin.

Any notion of ethnic sovereignty is nationalism. If we want to move beyond nation states we need to abolish notion ethnicity first.

then attack the entire concept, don't arbitrarily side with spanish/british nationalists and pretend that since they're the status quo they're acceptable and not nationalist.

if we're going to abolish nation states, consistently breaking them up into smaller units would if anything be a possible route towards that (since to maintain international clout, for example, they're more inclined to push for federation or confederation.)

it's certainly a long term goal, using it to justify fucking over certain groups in the short term is nothing but opportunistically dressing status-quo nationalism in the clothes of ideological purity.

There can be no effective federalization without strong centralization of current nation states. decentralization can only lead to weak unions(African union is a good example of this).

Our efforts would be better used in building of post-nationalist,universalist identities that would not be tied down to narrow notion of ethnicity.

what the hell is universalist Identity?

that's silly though, particularly since one reason most african states suck is their completely arbitrary borders. (and i mean, decades of imperialist fuckery even after colonisation officially ended, but y'know.)

furthermore it's not even about ethnicity in the scottish case, it's more like a sort of fixation with the arbitrary border we've already got. when "the scottish people are sovereign" that also applies to the europeans living in scotland who weren't born here. not all nationalism is ethnic nationalism.

the UK is already one of the most ridiculously central states there is (remember that officially, it's still a one-parliament game, holyrood just manages things on their behalf.)

A FUCKING ROSE

Pan-Europeanism is one example(or moreof halfway notion but its better than nothing). New soviet man would be another.

UK is anything but centralized, since it is Unitary state instead of federal one.

a unitary state is a centralised state, power is used centrally, from London. (For example, sales taxes are decided in London and so are military matters)

federal states decentralise power relative to unitary states (for example, sales taxes are decided in California and Military matters are decided in Washington), and confederations decentralise power relative to federations. (where Sales taxes and military matters are both decided in individual states, but then they all agree to stay within certain bands and invade the same people, or something I don't really know.)

Division of power between multiple parliaments and houses that are not legislatively tied together make it less centralized than Russia nor Germany is for example.

remember that notionally holyrood is just administering things on behalf of westminster and the UK remains a fully centrally run state, westminster could abolish holyrood immediately after the election in theory (since there's also no written constitution.)

...

will you volunteer, lads?

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
MUERTE AL FASCISMO!

Feels great tbh

...

Hello, American.

I'm Scottish

Uhhhh- I trol you?

Man, I haven't seen that face in ages. And that's saying something considering how overmarketed memes are.

states can't secede. The legal matter was settled during the civil war. Apparently the constitution totally implies the union to be "perpetual". California is far too big of an economic and strategic asset to let go anyway. there will be war. how are you going to fight the war when you have no guns, and everyone in the National Guard is a republican.

As far as I know, the second.
I always hear more about "espanya ens roba" or catalan nationalism that actual socialism, and many nationalist politicians are porky as fuck, like Jordi Puyol.

If secession occurs in any form (such as a referendum in favor) that distracts the US and provides a breather for nascent revolutionary movements in the world- that's a victory.

Sure they can. The majority of the states just have to vote on it. And if force is necessary, then so be it.


Maybe the liberals don't have guns, but that's certainly not true of everyone. And honestly I don't care if the libs die because of their own anti-gun stupidity.


All Californians have something to gain from independence, regardless of political stance. We subsidize the US with billions of dollars to prop up failed states in the deep south and to benefit US imperialism. Same with Baja in Mexico. The two states of Baja California are the some of the richest in Mexico and the money just goes to corrupt politicians miles away in Mexico City.

what the fuck is wrong with you toveri?

sign me up dawg, also Im a medic from conscription army so I would some use

fifty- fifty
But the main leader is right wing and is supported by suckdem so expect some neoliberal shit.
but there won’t be independence in this decade. They don`t have guns and they want to stay in eu.

I really hope communist California happens so we'll have another failed communist state.

...

You're like Holla Forums complaining about da jews

kys

Banana republics are real.

...

...

...

Oh yeah, California is totally going to succeed. Just like Texas, right?

Name a successful capitalist state.

my father was born in baja, i will pull some 5th colum shit to make sure you fucking liberals don't ruin it

Come on, be realistic here.
Most people don't have guns, and most of California's left are more liberal-leaning and/or liberals. And a lot of the legit left still don't have guns, and probably even much of the pro-gun left doesn't because the likelihood of having a use for them to justify the cost and practice seems pretty low.

Not to mention, we seriously need to address the left's lack of well-funded, well-organized militias. I'm going to put it right out there: we need tanks or at least anti-tank weapons. We need to have tactics down right now, and we need numbers to pull them off. I don't know how much of this there is, in California or elsewhere in the US, but I suspect it would be woefully inadequate to fight the US military. Hell, I bet whatever they've got couldn't even beat the Iraqi army.

bro you speak the truth man. It fucking pains me to say I don't anything, I can't fucking afford it, plus I live in a garbage liberal state that makes it HARD as fuck to own one. Soon though man

Replace California with Quebec.

...

I have to side with the socdem here. Nationalist struggles in todays world are completely irrelevant in abolishing capitalism.

It will be after Spain blocks their entry to EU.

lol wat.

At best you've got right-wing socdems.

...

Like pottery

Come on