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hitler only called himself a socialist because it was popular at the time if he truly was a so called "national socialist" he wouldn't have killed the left wing faction of the NSDAP
Truly a visionary
How can one refute meaningless platitudes?
Hitler was so fucking aggressively dumb holy shit
So true Socialism leaves no room for actual individualism?
For NEETsocs, socialism is when you do something for "society" first and foremost, which is opposed to capitalism when you do something to get more money. They're pretty much repeating Spengler's autism
What's there to refute? he made up his own definition of what his movement is about. That's like posting the definition of "chair" and telling everyone to refute it.
I don't think there is anything to refute.
A lot of leftist get mad and says it isn't socialism because the workers didn't own the means of production, but that is a Marxist definition of socialism. National/folkish socialism is where the volk own the means of production.
And even that isn't. Read a book.
do you have anything to contribute other than butthurt?
"Workers' ownership of means of production" is a meme forced by illiterates who never read Marx. Still, it's less retarded than your "volk own the means of production", since unlike "workers"(usually implied to be wage labourers), "volk" is not an economic group.
Socialism is primarily the abolition of commodity production, not just horizontal capitalism like market "socialists" like to pretend.
thats marxist socialism
That quote could have easily come out of the mouth of an anarchist.
The problem with Hitler was that he was super racist/nationalist and had a weird fetish for "high culture".
And is the best definition of the core of socialism. You can have your pretty little coops, but they matter for nothing if you have not abolished commodity production. Your society will function just like capitalism does.
But it is a meme definition. Read above, or just the rest of his post.
Also sage this cancer thread.
No, it wouldn't
So did Adorno.
His criticism of Marxist socialism sounds exactly like Bakunn's criticism to me.
There were many "socialists" before Marx, the reason why nobody cares about them is because they got BTFO'd badly for thinking their shitty ideas were not repackaged capitalism masquerading as socialism, that retarded concept of "volk's ownership" being a good example
I'm pretty sure that collectivist anarchist wouldn't say he's for property.
thats your opinion
this is just random, is it an argument against anything?
ok i don't care I was just pointing out that Socialism being primarily the abolition of commodity production, not just horizontal capitalism like market "socialists" like to pretend is Marxist socialism
Haven't you read God and the State? He bashes idealists and liberals because they downplay the role of the society in shaping the individual. Hitler sounds like a retarded American conservative.
Sorry, I thought you were that tard talking about "volk"
Then what is the volk and how does volk owning the means of production differ from capitalism?
the volk would be the people of the individual nations
it had a corporatist economy not a capitalist one
Did you seriously buy into ancaps' bullshit about corporate capitalism not being capitalism just because of bigger state interference when compared to liberal capitalist version?
Marxism is the only method that fully recognizes the role of the individual because it sees the individual as he acts against historical and structural forces that shape him and those around him, and how he responds to those forces. We see individual value restrained by hierarchies and social realities, not hierarchies and social realities shaped by individual effort. We want to free the individual from those, and let people explore their full potential.
Those on the Right, who act like people exists in a vaccuum and whose fortunes are shaped by nothing but their own self-worth start from the assumption that the existing circumstances are fair and natural, while the Marxist subjects them to criticism. We see classes and hierarchies as no less historically constructed than the Estates for example were, and I don't see any individualist trying to re-create them.
no. completely different. It was the chosen political system of Germany and Italy
And how is it different when everything functioned much like before except the state started interfering in the economy more than before? The amount of state's interference is not something that determines if something is capitalist or not since the level of is not a binary, but a spectrum.
No it's not. That's the general definition of Socialism. The Marxist definition is that + ending the cycle of capital and having a classless society.
no its a marxist definition. Hitler's socialism has nothing to do with Marxism
That's because Hitler's socialism is capitalism
Hitler's Socialism wasn't Socialism at all you retard.
>Categories: Corporatism | Collectivism | Economic ideologies | Capitalism | Fascism | Political theories | Political systems
Nice. Great moments in Rightism or Great moments in fascism would be more accurate tho
it was corporatism see>>1688133
So it was capitalism.
Let's do it the other way: what is capitalism as an economic system? Define it by contrasting it with feudalism, which is a different mode of production.
corporatism =! capitalism
local corporate bodies organized according to the importance of each occupation to the people as a whole; higher representation in stages up to a supreme council of the state; mandates revocable at any time; no organized parties, no professional politicians, no periodic elections
There are more than two economic systems. Shocking, I know, but things aren't only black and white. But you probably believe capitalism is the system used since the first coin was created.
Please reread my question. I did not ask about the fucking elections, but about contrasting the economies of feudalism and capitalism. I will give you a hint: feudal production was based on serf-lord relation, while capitalist one on employee-employer one
Most people here will say that although the elements of capitalist mode of production existed for ages, they only started eclipsing the previously existing types of economy(slave-based economy and feudalism) by 18th century.
t. other user
it has nothing to do with libertarian's corporatism boogy man please read a book
You're using the same arguments, fam.
There's zero difference.
why are you posting like a mental defect all over the board?
"corporatism" and contemporary industrial capitalism are the same thing
Both you and lolberts believe two types of economy based on wage labour are somehow in opposition to each other despite sharing the same foundation, so it's applicable here :^)
…but definitely not capitalism.
Actually we distinguish between a number of modes of production its just that 'corporatism' is indistinguishable from capitalism as far as material relations of production are concerned.
well i'm convinced
Reported for shitpoting. Come back when you are actually going to have a discussion in good faith.
I honestly believe Hitler was purely an opportunist. I don't think he really believed in shit, although he probably started believing his own bullshit at some point like all fake people
So what the difference from normal????
Just the same shit but everyone is the same color, wow so socialist
He did it himself by sending them into concentration camps as beta testers.
That's the fucking joke autist
I'm sorry to inform you, but you are retarded
So much ideology
ironic coming from a leftcom, who don't consider the USSR socialist
I'm sorry to inform you, but retard that sees everything through the modern european political dichotomy goggles won't be able to comprehend this nor Hitler's leftism.
I didn't know everyone not jewish is of same color.
Wow, Zlazloj is so much better at expressing himself in text
he's saying it's socialism but describing capitalism. the same trick was done by the christ democrats in western germany in the Ahlener Program.
"marxist socialism", or actually just socialism, does not contradict individualism, however you can only promote an individuals efficiency by raising the collective, societies standards.
we have seen what happens to individual brains outside the context of a collective, society, when abandoned and living in the wild. they become savages and live amongst other animals. they're not inventing shit except to cope with isolation from society.
every great invention is the culmination of societal advances.
"Only in the Roman Empire and in Spain under Arab domination has culture been a potent factor. Under the latter, the standard of civilisation attained was wholly admirable; to Spain flocked the greatest scientists, thinkers, astronomers and mathematicians of the world, and side by side there flourished a spirit of sweet human tolerance and a sense of the purest chivalry." - Adolf Hitler
Such a "right winger" was Hitler, his actual thought wouldn't even pass through Holla Forumsyp/'s mouth.
I didn't even imply anywhere that you strawmanning faggot.
uh lets see:
literally porkie. Just a fucking porkie who liked LARP'ing as an ancient aryan god-emperor. Nothing special about his "system"
Or maybe the quote is fabricated.
Just replace socialism with capitalism and you have yourself an ancap.
"A anarchist is one who serves the common good without giving up his individuality or personality or the product of his personal efficiency. Our adopted term 'Anarchist' has nothing to do with anarcho communism. Anarcho communism is anti-property; true anarchy is not. Anarcho communism places no value on the individual, or individual effort, or efficiency; true anarchy values the individual and encourages him in individual efficiency, at the same time holding his interests as an individual must be in consonance with the consumer. All great inventions, discoveries, and achievements were first the product of an individual brain. It is charged against me that I am against property, that I am an atheist. Both are false"
TFW Hitler is actually a communalist
It's funny that Adolf Hitler said that…but then nazifags nowdays say things like "white people are more intelligent" or "white people invented the phone" instead of saying "Alexander Bell invented the phone", when in reality thy could never explain how a phone works in the first place.
Get a load of this newfag
OP is the biggest retard itt but you're really trying hard…
scientific socialism, yes
socialism in itself? no, that's a ridiculous claim
Or maybe all you know on the subject is western propaganda and Holla Forums memes with quotes taken out of context.
N S economy summarized
if he didn't believe his shit he would have been much more pragmatic.
God, Hitler was such a faggot…
Seems like you didn't read the OP
He purged bolshevik faction
hitler was a traitor and miss used the word socialist to appel to the working class
strasser should have been the one to lead germany