China

Wasn't the whole idea to first develop China, and then move to the next stage of development? (Between 2030-2060)

You could say that, yeah. According to the CCP party platform, they're "currently in the primary stage of socialism," and that they are supposed to develop toward complete socialism around 2100 or so.

From a Marxist perspective, it makes sense. By refusing to integrate into global capital, China would have experienced economic development at a decelerated rate, and eventually been surpassed and more likely than not dismembered by capital one way or another. So by integrating and directing development by a disciplined party aparatus, you could theoretically control the capital accumulation process and guide it towards socialist development.

Part of me wants to believe this is the plan and that the CCP has been playing the long con, and that their honeymoon with capital, all the worker repression, totalitarianism, imperialism, etc, is to safeguard the ultimate goal of placing the MoP in the hands of the Chinese, and eventually the global, proletariat.

But then I wake up and remember that capital rots out whatever principled body it comes into contact with, and that the actions of the CCP make such a belief, however ideologically grounded or theoretically justified it might (or might not) be, a complete fantasy.

Elaborate please. Are you referring to Stalin placing Mao as head of CCP?

Well Lenin's idea was to use authoritarianism to entrench the revolution before he could liberalize it, and we saw how that turned out.

Pretty much. Just as Porky won't willingly surrender his ill-gotten gains with a literal fight, the CCP won't give up this capitalist bonanza. I think we all fantasize about the chinks going "yoink", nationalizing everything and go on with the program, but alas.

chuangcn.org

theres two fucking china threads already

Oh and what will that entail? Going by the rampant ethno-nationalism promoted by the regime, it might well amount to a welfare state where if you're a second-category person w/o papers you're out.

The medium is the message.

Ismael argues that China is pretty much socialist and a dictatorship of the proletariat. Longer discussion after this post:

>>>/marx/5717

How does Holla Forums respond?

This guy is probably under some severe delusion. There are several people in that thread who explain that it literally isn't. How can a country be socialist if you have blatantly obvious billionaires who make their fortune off the labor of the proletariat.

I swear every day you faggots who defend these bourgeois states make it more obvious that you are retards who probably haven't read Marx.

If china was socialist they wouldn't need suicide nets or have striking workers demanding benefits

He argues that the billionaires have no influence over the state apparatus, therefore not making it a bourgeois state

Seems like he's quite skillfully seeking and framing the data to reach the conclusion he already had reached. But at the end of the day, Porky owns the economy now:

It appears to me like, as says, he engages in some advanced type of revisionism and handwaving to justify the actions of this country. This is just ridiculous.

All those walls of text that fall apart when someone with even a very basic grasp of Marxist theory can point out the contradictions. Killing capitalists amounts to shit if your country harbors them in the first place, but to him this is not important since the proletariat somehow run the show through the party.

I actually thought these people were a joke up until now. Wew lad.

Its good to know that leftist have one strong ally left.

It’s an extremely shity country.

Read my rebuttals of Ismail's position. He's yet to refute them convincingly imo

Pic unrelated.

China has all but completely degenerated back into capitalism. You make me laugh, user.