I know that socialism is when the workers control the means of production and people will get paid based on socially...

I know that socialism is when the workers control the means of production and people will get paid based on socially necessary labour time and whatnot. But how will the welfare state be handled will their be high taxes, would you have to buy insurance for your house, car, etc.

Probably, yes and yes.
But private insurance is shit tbh.

Private property would owned by the proletariat themselves.
Money is replaced with labor coupons, which can be used to buy luxury. But after the purchasing of something the labor coupon becomes valueless. Which means the accumulation of money is impossible by stores, etc.
And houses, toothbrushes, etc. are personal property. The government has no control over personal property.

Most of the taxes will just be redistribution of taxes back to the population. Second biggest expenditure would be state and environment upkeep. Then government funded research which won't yield immediate results and military expenditure will be lost entirely.

There be no welfare state, since there would be no unemployment or underemployment. Also, there would be no financial institutions like insurance companies that move capital. I would however think that there should be a disaster relief fund.


Sorry, I misread the part about houses, insurance would probably be the replacement value of the product in labor coupons. Essentially you'll have enough to re-purchase the luxury. Or for personal property, those will likely be replaced without a need for labor coupons, as it is not a luxury. Food, housing, etc. aren't luxuries. TV's, cars*, etc. are luxuries.
*I'm not sure about cars, depends on the public transportation system.

I know I misused the word. Sorry Marx and Engels.

Why not fiat currency how do you trade with foreign countries or have something like foreign air travel.

Why not an energy backed currency?

Well, I assumed you meant world socialism. Socialism in one country is for in case a world revolution doesn't happen, which would have a state similar to the mid Soviet Union.
It would require a fiat monetary system, so people would have to work, depending on the value the hours will have to be X for Y Zs. In this system income is standardize, all jobs pay the same per hour.

I doubt that trading with capitalist countries is going to be much of a concern for a socialist state, since the embargos will begin during the revolution. In any case, why use fiat currency? Labor voucers could function as a commodity internationally.


In like watts?

Food, electricity, gas, oil, thorium. Watts, calories, joules. All the things necessary to run civilization. Unlike gold.

Why would all jobs have to be paid exactly the same as a wage couldn't you pay people in proportion to their contribution

Why not grain backed then?
It's of greater necessity.

Or food in general.

That's what I said, food. All the sources of energy. Surplus of food is why civilization exists at all. And shoving ever greater quantities of energy into its maw is how it grows.

Think without coupons and money and consider what is necessary for healthcare and infrastructure. To build a road it means that a socialist society must have a surplus of labour. Which means that there are workers who do not have to make their own means of subsistence. These workers who get their food, clothing, and housing taken care off by other workers, can now fully focus their labour not on their own means of subsistence, but on the task they have been given. Which would be service labour. In the case of a doctor, he would be supplied with medicine, machines, and of course his daily bread by other workers, so that he will be able to perform his job. Which requires a surplus of commodities produced by other workers. It boils down to being able to produce more commodities than the workers need so that they can be redistributed to people doing other forms of labour.

Ahh, you didn't exclusively mean electrical energy. Sorry for that misunderstanding.

t. Kulak

Stalin didndu nuffin wrong.

Whenever labour is exchanged for labour vouchers at the end of a hard day of work, deductions are made. These deductions mostly include setting aside for the replacement of replacing tools and resources, but also include what would make up welfare.


stop spreading confusion and misinformation.

Why not vouchers internally and something else for external relations? Or basically this:

What if we provided a small amount of fiat currency that could be accepted internationally alongside labour vouchers that could be used internally. The major problem of suggestion is how do we get other countries to take our monopoly money.

I'd say the same to you.

did you kill Rosa luxembourg

Probably you'll be able to get a decent station wagon or midsize truck but if you want a convertible that costs labor vouchers

I doubt there will be welfarism in the socialist society since everyone is employed. High taxes for everyone is stupid as it will send them broke so why not create more state owned businesses over sea to earn the profits to spend on the things for the people?

So if the means of production have been seized, how are labor vouchers not just enforced wages that puts the value of someone by the amount they produce?

not if you don't want dem bougies to come back and pillage your shit

Why not just allow everyone to hold assault weapons and have militias.

There's work that needs to be done and it's gonna get done because you don't let your community go to shit, because you want to have all the things necessary to reproduce yourself and your loved ones, because if you do then you're only limited by the actual quantity/availability of stuff, because you want to get through this shit to make everything easier until your society is becomes communist.

Because that has not been what constitutes an army for the last 150 years.

This is incorrect, please read Marx and then continue.

Drop the leftcom flag.

Why not just use bottle caps like in Fallout 4. Think about it, it's fucking ingenious.

Everything would appear out of thin air magically and be free and there would be no problems except that you wouldn't be properly rewarded for your work so you'd be unmotivated to produce anything and everything would go right down the toilet so you all get sent to forced labor camps in order that you don't starve to death. Utopia!

Please stop using that flag until you understand what leftcom positions actually are.

Some guy will come along and take some of the shit you produced and give it to the people who cant be bothered working.

Your lack of effort in making shitposts disappoints me.

I guess if communism happened you would be the one working your fingers to the bone and I would be the low effort person who gets some of your stuff.

Those cliche responses don't deserve a (You)

Put in more effort next time. They don't just pop out of thin air, they need to be produced by the workers or traded for with other communes. The problems will still exist but wouldn't be ignored because they're "not profitable" or "externallities"
Your standard of living would be significantly higher, you get an actual democratic voice (especially when it comes to what is produced/available) and you wouldn't be refused access to something simply because you don't have enough money

If you're not happy then bitch about it or go on strike or sommethig, worst case move somewhere else. While parts of a communist mode of production can exist alongside a socialist one it's usually assumed that when you're using that word you're referring to a later stage.

Then I would starve

It wouldnt be true communism if it existed alongside other societies that have states etc.

Take off that flag.

This is why people laugh at us

The voucher is not same as the money. The voucher have expiration on it, which means it have to be spend on the thing they need. The rats wouldn't be able to exploit the people for the personal gains.

I think it would be better if it was assigned to the person and had no expiration.

What if I wanted something that needed a lot of vouchers?

That's why you have upper limits.

Offer yourself to customers as the errand person to earn extra vouchers. I think it is better to have voucher card with the expiration and upper limit on it because business must to offer the vouchers to employees immediately rather than refuse to pay or delay the payments. I mean why would the businessmen risk to lose the employees and business if the voucher have the expiration on it?

Wait… .. there is a businessman? .. I thought it was owned by the workers!


That's just stupid. It doesn't need to expire just not pass down through inheritance.

Assigning it to a person wont work. What if a person cant go out to buy things themselves and want someone to do it for them?

buy savings ticket from the state that will allocate your hours somewhere else for the time being.

they order it online.

Rare Pepes should be used as currency

Subscription system is way better than a voucher system. You don't take x number of vouchers and exchange them for goods, you have a certain amount of goods gauranteed to you per month.
That way planning is just based on population with only some variation for workers who are highly valuable (like leaders/organizers) and recieve bonus benefits

you did