Communes/'libertarian municipalities' will never expand, they will be eroded by capitalism

The point of communes isn't to erode capitalism, it's to provide people with refuge when Habbenings occur. Rojava would never have gotten off the ground if the Syrian war hadn't started.

Yep. And its existence is tied to the civil war. Sucks for the DFSNS but they're just another pawn in the great game, and they know it. The only hope they have is that the US won't abandon them to the predations of the Turks and Assad, assuming he returns to power post-war. 90% chance of them getting spitroasted tbh.

That's why the war must continue even if the fight with ISIS is concluded.
Permanent war economy.

Hold on one second . . .

Top kek

...

Hey there, I'm the OP of the thread from which you've pulled that quote. What I meant was that all attempts to create a geographical boundary in which a new system is practised inevitably fail. This is because they are always drawn into the global capitalist system of production and exchange. Any alternative value system and any non-value-producing system will be forced to conform to the capitalist system of value production whenever it interacts with the broader capitalist economy - if you want anything produced by the capitalist market, you're forced to produce under their conditions, or your commune isn't going to be able to sustain itself. The choice is to destroy capitalism utterly or get on board with it - sooner or later.

Rojava is a nationalist project and they are completely fine with capitalism.

libcom.org/library/rojava-reality-rhetoric-gilles-dauvé-tl

Stop posting this bullshit, its retarded and shallow.

BOOM

Fucking retarded people supporting bullshit like Rojava

The article doesn't agree with what you're saying, and this was before they dropped the Rojava name.
Try again.

Seems like an unsubstantiated claim. If we had control of a municipal government, there is a LOT we could do to accelerate the spread of municipal assemblies and institutitionalise their power.

We will never drop our utopianism.

I fucking love Jehu tbh. He should go on the Alpha 2 Omega podcast and debate Tom O'Brien and C Derick Varn. Or Andrew Kliman. But that one might be outmatched because Kliman is a monster when it comes to debate.

Yes, but he's also right about certain things, even if he's idiosyncratic about others, and he's definitely the good kind of crazy.

Do Trotskyists and Maoists essentially have the same idea of what a DoTP should look like? i.e. that the revolution never ends and proles keep running through the streets with AK's till Capitalism is gone?

Not really. Trotskyist permanent revolution is about spreading the revolution and not letting national boundaries stop its advance so that the DotP can overwhelm the worldwide bourgeoisie making building socialism feasible.
Maoists are more about not letting the revolutionary fervour die down after the initial overthrow of the bourgeoisie wherever that happens and on whatever scale and pushing for the continued revolutionary transformation of that society to socialism within that workers state.

Thank you for the clarification! This is very helpful. Also, I wish more Trots posted on here, we'd have a wider Left ecosystem, but all the anti-Trot memes are tiresome and people anons are more interested in strawmaning through memes then actually learning or engaging in comradley debate.

But what if the commune or municipality is self-sustaining, in that it does not have to interact with capitalist society, because enough agricultural and productive enterprises have been integrated to allow it to produce basic goods and services for itself?

The commune is not just a productive community but an organisation embedded into a wider revolutionary movement which can sustain itself precisly because it is formed out of the politicised basis of communes in low conflict with capitalism.

There is a trend that communes and cities in their political form get eroded by capitalism but there is also a countertrend that naturally reacts to that, because we are political beings capable of self organisation and striving towards freedom. Bookchin point raised in the concept of a "legacy of freedom" is that we have to use that trend as the basis of our movement. Its not a hippieesque call to drop out and try to seperate from capitalism, its a call to enter into conflict with capitalism in that way.

again this thread

Unless the commune covers and has sovereignty over the entire surface of the Earth this isn't happening. The Russians couldn't do it when them and their allied/subject communes covered half of the planet.

Would you rather talk about fucking catgirls?

Bookchin or catgirls.

Fuck me, I'm more and more inclined to vote for the latter.

the post left is just defeatist/lifestylist bullshit, imo

I interpreted this thread to be more generally about the theory/praxis of utopianism/commune-building/socialism-in-one-country. This board definitely needs more theory threads and way less 'will socialism get me a gf' and 'who has the best catgirls' and 'something something anime i suck cocks' threads.

Don't forget the mile-wide streak of 'kill all the niggers' primitivism that's prevalent in the post-left.

This thread isnt about Communalism at all. Communes are a constant part of the discussion among leftists.