Socialist Orgs General: "What If They Actually Helped" Edition

"hyurr nehh bluhh we have his thread every day muhh comrade" Shut up I know we do.

I wanted to have a serious discussion about why the Left isn't doing anything (anything) and what can be done. I don't mean people sitting at home who aren't in orgs because they'll always be around, I mean the people who ARE in orgs and THINK they're doing something and they're doing… nothing. I'm going to be approaching this from an American/Puerto Rican perspective so I can't speak for Europe but from what I understand things are generally pretty similar over there. So first off I'm going to list things that aren't working for us.

First of all, posturing. "What's posturing, Lares?" Oh you fucking know what it is, even if you don't realize it yet. You will know that you knew before the end of this paragraph. I'm talking about when you go to your local YDS chapter's Twitter page and oh hey that's great, they show some signs of activity, oh hey that's cool, the moderator posts dank memes on occasion that are actually funny and not just stolen from FC and Zuccbook, oh hey that's neat, they raised some money, and oh god guess what they did with it user, they went to a fucking march. And then they did it again, and again, and again, and wow, there he goes, he posted it again! That's their idea of how to waste their own resources. Raise your goddamn hand if you or anyone you know is in a socialist organization or a socialist because they saw some 19 year old hipsters holding up a "Take Back The Night" banner and thought, "oh, maybe socialism isn't Satan!" FUCK no, it doesn't happen, people see them and think, "oh, those poor misguided youthses!" especially when they look like how Nazis wished we look, stop with the bullshit already.

Secondly, on the other extreme, book fetishism. The only thing worse than an org that thinks it's a marching band is an org that thinks it's a reading group. I can hear the autistic screeching even now. Look I get it it's important to get educated. But the people we are going to have the most viability with are the angry dude(tte)s working three jobs to support the family they didn't want to have and they don't have time to read fucking Das Kap. Surprisingly guess who has their shit together on this? The IMT. Instead of publishing a stupid fucking newspaper they put the exact same resources into making their own literature. I think we can't fairly ask people to read theory until we can distribute something at a prole's reading level and this includes people who dropped out of middle school. Breadbook, Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists and Kropotkin are obviously a great starting point but even it isn't really definitive and it's getting old. I've actually pondered working on such a thing myself but I've got my book to keep me busy for now.

And holy shit that's really it. I guess that's where my post is going- we need to stop "disciplining ourselves" and "putting our names out there" and actually DO things for once. Do you think more than 1% of the population was reading socialist publications in I think 1900 because socialists showed up to hold up signs at suffragette demonstrations? That's that shit I don't like. It takes literally the exact amount of funds and manpower organization to distribute socialist literature and food to the homeless etc. as it does to go to some fucking gay pride rally I mean Jesus there's literally no excuse other than LARPing (something I think is greatly exaggerated), COINTELPRO (also probably the same) and the far more likely possibility that the people really passionate about leading socialist organizations have no idea what they're doing but want to help, or, even worse, are in it for themselves. Small tangent if your socialist organization has a "leader" or even "leaders" you've got a problem, administrative positions are different and acceptable.

So what's the solution? Well, we could all start putting our chips in the most promising organizations in our home countries/regions. So let's take a look at the American state of things. I looked into the offerings and combed through them myself, and my findings are in the first post in this thread. So that leaves us with the following orgs, many of which could be eliminated or added at a later date- CPUSA, SAlt, DSA, IMT, ISO, CS-LCF, WSA, Black Rose, IWW, FNB

WHAT THIS THREAD IS ACTUALLY FOR: INPUT ON 'THE LIST', IDEAS ON HOW TO INFLUENCE ORGS IN A MORE PRODUCTIVE DIRECTION, IDEAS ON STARTING ORGS, IDEAS FOR ACTIVITIES THIS NEW GENERATION OF PRODUCTIVE ORGS CAN ENGAGE IN THAT WOULD ACTUALLY HELP CONSTRUCT THE SOCIALIST MOVEMENT AND/OR AID THE WORKING CLASS, ETC.

Other urls found in this thread:

blackandred83.tumblr.com/post/151810779747/letter-of-resignation-from-socialist-alternative
blackrosefed.org/locations/boston/
iww.org/branches/US/MA
facebook.com/Boston.IMT/
bostoncommunists.org/
fnbboston.org/
dsaboston.org/
blackandred83.tumblr.com/post/154257810197/a-few-words-on-marxism-and-identity-politics

Anarchists. Y'all literally don't have a really national organization let me repeat this louder because it's important. There is no organization of anarchists that attempts to coordinate on a national level, despite the fact lay anarchists unexposed to theory except sometimes by proxy vastly VASTLY outnumber lay anything else. Let me repeat that louder because it's important.
THE ANARCHIST "SCENE" CONSISTS MOSTLY OF CLIQUES WITH ABSOLUTELY NO OUTREACH AND YET ASTONISHINGLY GOOD PRAXIS and GOD IT'S SO FRUSTRATING GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER AND MAKE SOME "REAL" ORGS (iww is good so is food not bombs if anything they’re both model organizations i don’t know enough about the three orgs i listed to dismiss them) THEY CAN BE AS UN-HIERARCHICAL AND CONSENSUS-BASED AS YOU WANT JUST… DO IT'' ALREADY

Leninists threw Maoists in here because it seems like Maoism exists mostly in the Internet, in the third world itself and within Leninist orgs. Oh God, oy. I think we can all agree that running a candidate against the openly anti-capitalist Jill Stein is the least dialectical thing for the most dialectical variant of socialism to be doing and yet all of the orgs that could be impressive. I don't care if La Riva got on the ballot in every state they could have easily only ran in states Jill couldn't but they didn't, because they're sectarian. Organizations that didn't pull this bullshit include APL (CPGB-ML tier), PL (see Solidarity), FRSO (see Solidarity), FRSO (see Solidarity), FRSO, FRSO (hahaha I'm funny), RCPUSA (lol), Solidarity (practically a newspaper proxy at this point), SWP (LITERALLY a newspaper proxy), ISO, IMT, FSP (see Solidarity) and the Spartacist “NAMBLA simply advocates the decriminalization of consensual sex between men and boys” League (a position I happen to agree with at least above the age of 13 or 14 but JESUS you don’t say that out loud especially when NAMBLA has/had a large pedophile wing). Ha ha ha guess what that's only like half of them because the other half all ran candidates isn't that funny, ha ha ha ‘’kill’’ me

Social democrats. Not neoliberals pretending to be socdems that's different. There's the GPUSA, the DSA, the SDUSA and the SPUSA. That last one is also right out of the park for running against Stein (Especially with a douchey fuck like Meme Loltysik and his neon girlfriend) and to my understanding SDUSA is barely even a pro-welfare pressure group. The DSA is good fuck you and the Greens are honestly a bit of an enigma to me because they pull the "getting our name out there" crap and sure it's more likely to work because people know who you are and don't think you're Satan but they contest elections they have no chance of winning and that's almost their entire operation, when they do show up somewhere to demonstrate it's for something fuckin' stupid like SeaWorld. I feel like the failure is too deeply ingrained in them to make it work. They would probably have better luck working with Dems to pressure them on the few things they actually disagree on but they're playing this stupid huge charade where local Dems are as ebil as national Dems and they're all irredeemable and that's just buttfucking silly.

Other. Then there's the CPUSA which doesn't fit into any of these categories but everyone hates it and I don't know anything about it. So. I guess SAlt is also moving towards here but it's got that whole CWI mess. But let's just be nice and assume that's only an international problem.

Puerto Rico has like 5 orgs. I honestly don't know anything about any of them and I have the intention of starting YDS and DSA affiliates anyway for very good reasons pertaining to the political climate of Puerto Rico and COINTELPRO demonization of the left and the independence movement as CubaRussiaSaudiISISHitlerStalinMaoPolPotPutin-funded (I mean it's true but) so I won't go into all that, I know at one point the PRCP/Abeyarde Rojo was teaching people theory in seminar/class type settings, not sure if they're still at that, sounds pretty fuckin' based. The others include MST, SF, Macheteros and MINH- teetering electoral parties include the PPT and the PIP- and then there’s the Broad Front that includes the entire left including a large faction of the opposition party. MST and SF might be sectarian (can’t confirm) but all these other groups have really interesting praxis and the country is fertile for a shakeup.

Wow you actually read this dumpster fire of a post. Let me get back to my point. Going forward it's a bad idea to put all our eggs in one basket especially as everyone has a different preferred praxis and ideology and that's fine, we have different denominations of Christianity for the same reason. But we should at least be putting whole eggs in the baskets and not try to spread them across multiple baskets, especially shitty baskets. And we need to be able to recognize shitty baskets. We, not just Holla Forums but the left, need to decide which organizations have a future and promote all of them, and promote their intercooperation. Even try being a member of multiple if they'll let you.

Also the reason why I didn't bring up making our own organization is that the last time we tried that the OP wanted to make what basically boiled down to a country club and then I tried to hijack it and set it straight and then a Christcommie hijacked it and talked about buying land in I think Michigan to start a commune which would've been nice but we were never going to raise a single cent for it. You know imageboards. Point is there's like 5 people max that live within 100 miles of me (and that includes Austin) and that's no basis for an org, what IS a basis for an org is a glorified college group or a split, either of which would obviously start local instead so if you want to start an org that isn't a chapter of another org feel free but you're going to be doing it mostly without us. And just my two cents splits never go anywhere 99 times out of 100. It's also not going to work if you join a group you don't actually believe in specifically to split. It's called D&C for a reason. Also sorry for all the rich text abuse I had a lot of time.

The reason you need to read books and think critically is so that your action isn't just empty virtue signalling. What causes are worth fighting for? What tactics and organization should we use?
More often than not, excessive activism only serves to affirm the dominant system, you can have your civil disobedience, as long as it doesn't actually lead to anything

christ, how can I use quotation marks without it turning into italics
Holla Forums is retarded sometimes

One is 'this', two is this, three is this and five is this. If you wanna do quotes instead of apostrophes there's a "button" for that. You can change that in Options on the top right though.

I definitely see where you're coming from and see how lack of reading factors into the problem at hand. But organizations that try to correct this about themselves often become book clubs. (I've heard this criticism of the ISO and the IMT, not sure if it's true or not.) I think we need to be wary of both extremes and focus on productive action, but also theory as a means of optimizing praxis via the principle of "actually knowing what the fuck you're doing".

...

You should make a DSA chapter in Puerto Rico mate. Those excuses apply everywhere in America unless there is some unique factor about Puerto Rico I don't understand. Then you can decide how these resources I used and operate serve the people Black Panther style programs.

Practice what you preach, if you show it works and gain traction in PR others will adopt your tactics. Also I imagine it would be easier to build a mass anti-capitalist movement in PR compared to the continential US because of the fucked up economy and debt crisis.

huh

raw anal leakage, comrade

What excuses? I don't follow.
That being said I'd say the key trait to Puerto Rican politics is the false dichotomy between various forms of increased autonomy that all hate each other even though the end result would mostly be the same, and becoming a state- one typically associated with the left, and the other with the right. Because of the fact Puerto Rican politics are so fragmented you'll have more luck if you don't associate yourself with any of the existing ideologies or proposals and come up with your own terminology and work with other organizations so people realize they aren't that different. That's really what the Broad Front is attempting. But moreover if the new DSA chapter presents itself as more moderate and status-agnostic it can have much better spread. Out of the orgs I mentioned the Macheteros, MINH and PIP focus primarily on status and MST and SF have typical socialist outreach and normie-accessibility which is to say "shit". That leaves the PPT who honestly are sectarian and have horrible praxis, think like the Puerto Rican version of the Greens. I'm not sure about this but I think they literally have like 3 elected officials on local levels on the entire island and they're associated irretrievably with their incharitable wonk of a leader (who I agree with on almost everything) and the island's radical student movement. The other other reason I wanted to start a DSA/YDS chapter in Puerto Rico is because of the Berniecrat appeal and the glaring lack of a DSA/YDS chapter given the existing presence of a strong radical student movement and the FINAL reason is because I understand DSA gives its chapters much more autonomy than is typical and doesn't go about kicking out chapters for praxis differences like SAlt is close to doing to the Austin faction.

The ISO and PSL are the only true socialist organizations with relevant numbers in the United States.

People who argue that we should help DSA grow are indirectly arguing for a stronger Democratic Party.

Really? Because I've heard that the ISO is a book club, the PSL is an undialectical Stalinist cult of personality and the DSA is one of our best shots. And by 'heard' I mean 'know'. Adios

PSL is just full of stuck in the 20th century LARPers like yourself.

lol

...

gtfo underage b&, Holla Forums is not your diary and bold text won't make people want to read it more. Also, articulate your post better and people will actually give it a chance. Most of these sentences could be said in under 12 words.

action front has the best praxis tbqfh m8

...

Well join them then, then they're 9.
Groups don't drop out of nowhere.

Join Action Front

we are literally planning to do this very soon

and actually its 12 people

You can't just spam
in every topic you fucking retard, you don't have a website and even if you had one your name is un-duckduckgo-able. If you want to get more than a handful of people even from this board you need to say

I mean, to be honest at the level most of them are operating at yeah running anyone for president is completely pointless but apparently you disagree since you're specifically citing running them "against Jill Stein." If there's any value in having an anti-capitalist in the presidential race I honestly feel like that value is completely erased by having said anti-capitalist be A Fucking Green

Its not every topic, its every person who seems interested in organising and we provide the email when they ask every time.

LITERALLY sixteen years of age

Better to be well read than red liberals.
And the 20th century brought us real socialism, like Cuba, Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union. SocDem cancer brought us the Bernie cuck.

I keep hearing about these guys, where and what are they? Sounds very interesting. Maybe my DSA chapter can have dual membership or something

Seems like most people read it anyway :^)

Thanks for reminding me to expand the filter

LOL "the Bernie cuck" was reason #1 why Puerto Rico felt empowered enough to organize the massive strike that forced our corrupt government to declare bankruptcy. Learn dialectics or fuck off

Action Front are a small but growing non sectarian praxis group. Our aim is to raise class consciousness by organising those spaces which mainstream left wing organisation has left behind, such as anonymous image boards. In doing so we hope to recruit a larger and larger group for action in real life. To this end we have already protested the suppression of Kurdish symbols by the German government among other things. We mean for our actions to become bolder and more effective as the group matures.

if you're interested mail [email protected]/* */

I don't think people who criticize socdems and liberal-presenting socdems realize that the important part isn't whether or not they're going to bring about change, or whether or not they're going to bring about good change, or whether or not they're going to bring about enough change, or whether or not they're going to bring about the right change, or whether or not they're going to bring about the change we want. The important thing about socdems that lie outside of the overton window is how they make the proles feel. Bernie gave people hope for the class struggle and that's the best gift American socialism could've asked for.

Thanks, blood. I'll definitely shoot a mail.

Upon further research it would appear CS-LCF became Black Rose and ISO is a book club, so here's the new list-
MLs: '''Communist Party USA ('scientific socialism'), International Marxist Tendency (Trotskyist)
N/A: Socialist Alternative (increasingly), Action Front (nominally), Democratic Socialists of America (increasingly)
Entryists: IMT (decreasingly?), SAlt (with disputable honesty), DSA
Anarchists: Workers Solidarity Alliance (synthesist), Black Rose (platformist), International Workers of the World (syndicalist), Food Not Bombs (doesn't technically engage in much anarchist activity but functions on anarchist ideals)
As you can see Stalinists, Hoxhaists and Maoists are kind of buttfucked here but I feel like CPUSA and IMT should be accommodating enough? I don't know. Not sure if I don't hear much about the anarchist organizations because they're good at keeping a low profile or because they're not as strong or some combination of both. I know a lot of anarchist orgs prefer to have a very small profile, like Portland Anarchist Road Care, or even less, so there may be groups with horrible outreach in your city. Unfortunate there's no organizations that function more like a network of business cooperatives and I didn't get to make that category.

Hey nice thread OP. I appreciate the effort and the information.

I'm thinking about linking up with SAlt tbh but I don't have super high hopes. My main goal is primarily to at least build a network of leftists, even if they are dirty Trots.

yw :-)
Where you at? There's two factions struggling for the heart of SAlt ( 🍀🍀🍀Seattle🍀🍀🍀 and Austin) and what you encounter depends entirely on what side your local SAlt chapter has teamed up with. Maybe there's something better near you than either of them.

What are the two factions fighting about? It better not be about the role of Esperanto in the post-revolutionary society.

LOL no it's not that stupid thankfully. SAlt, IMT, and other groups hailing from the CWI/Militant lineage (and well Trot orgs at large) traditionally are virulently, autistically centralist- think like a caricature of how synthesist and individualist anarchists see platformists. These idiots are constantly kicking each other out and splitting which is the reason why the IMT and the ISO even exist, because the British Militant and Socialist Worker Party kicked them out. There's been a storm a-brewin' for a very long time because the Austin faction thinks that sticking strictly to the way Trots are used to doing things is counter-intuitive and the "orthodox" group sees any criticism as sedition. The "orthodox" group gets all inflamed and swollen about how Austinites are becoming more inclusive and listening to Maoist and other non-Trotskyist ideas more often and that they've become "idpol". (You know how Holla Forums likes to screech about "idpol"? It's the CWI equivalent of BUGS at work- it's just become much more effective, like BUGS, because of people's strong distaste for edgy would-be genocide artists on Tumblr. I don't think "idpol" is the term they use though). What the Austinites say is that they've hardly forgotten the class struggle or Marxism, they've just learned to see it as the main facet of the central struggle against hierarchy, which includes race and gender and other systems. In fact, the whole "brocialist" concerns and the "you're being undialectical!!" stereotype both come from Trot groups, where they were actually relevant concerns and not one-word argument winners, usually coming from Maoists, who, in the first world, adapt Maoist concepts about exploitation of populations into racial and ethnic terms instead of strictly national terms. I don't know if that all made sense.

But that's scarcely the only problem with SAlt- this post has more info. It's a deeply flawed organization and the reason I haven't kicked it off yet is because there's hope it'll sort out its problems yet if the Austinites gain the upper hand and maybe even leave the CWI.

blackandred83.tumblr.com/post/151810779747/letter-of-resignation-from-socialist-alternative

Maybe because they're… anarchists?

Sad!

… so, what do you do if you hate both Marxist LARPing and pseudo-Maoist idpol? This is a bit of a rock and a hard place.

We need a fucking Zizek party.

So I'm from Boston area, truth be told I'm not sure what side their on. Also not sure what other organizations are in the area that are accessible to me

You kill yourself, because Marx, Engels and Trotsky were all just as concerned about race and gender as modern socialists. Learn how base and superstructure reinforce each other

It appears there's a Black Rose chapter-
blackrosefed.org/locations/boston/
an IWW chapter-
iww.org/branches/US/MA
an IMT chapter-
facebook.com/Boston.IMT/
a CPUSA-
bostoncommunists.org/
an FNB-
fnbboston.org/
and a DSA-
dsaboston.org/
But Boston is a big place so if a lot of these guys are on the other side of town and SAlt isn't do whatever you want. I wasn't able to confirm what "side" Boston SAlt is on but the general trend is towards ditching Trotskyism from what I can tell.
Also consider showing up to anything Antifa is likely to show up for and that's a good place to meet more undercover anarchists if you're into that.

With less edge, read that same person's take on why the best Marxism is intersectional- found it on accident and think it's very well-worded.
blackandred83.tumblr.com/post/154257810197/a-few-words-on-marxism-and-identity-politics

dropped just like that

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, Austin has little to no influence over our national level politics, and mostly serves to remind of the dangers of taking maoism seriously. Clearly you've been talking to some of them, but they're rusing you, chum.

We do use the term identity politics, but not as a bugbear. We recognize that special oppressiona exist, but we reject the muh privilege narrative for what it is, an analysis completely lacking in any "intersection" with class, a discourse that Hillary has had no problem adopting uncritically. Ultimately, despite it its popularity with college kids, I think it's a bad idea to go around telling white people they always benefit from racism, because they might believe you.

The comrade who wrote that suicide note ended up joining the greens, do I really need to say more? At least now he'll be safe from the dangers of vaccines.

And please take us off your list, we really don't need any more sperglords like yourself trying to join.

You're ignoring the PSL and WWP, who not only attend, but organize very large protests through ANSWER Coalition. ANSWER Coalition is the center of the anti-war movement, having organized protests attended by 100,000s.

...

I appreciate the layout man. Do you know anything about the black rose? They sound interesting for sure.

I'm gonna read into more of all of these though. At the end of the day I'm a commie first so if there a socialist/communist org that better than an anarchist one I'd join that.

...

You gonna mail?

"The membership boost gained from Bernie activity has long since come to a halt and even contracted as SA has hemorrhaged experienced radical organizers in favor of semi-political neophytes."
Intredasting, so SAlt is actually not growing anymore? I am pretty sure DSA is still growing since the Bernie moment.

I can't believe you fucking retards are taking this Green seriously. The "experienced radical organizers" are all people who didn't want us to recruit berners in the first place, only "real marxists". How are we to grow if we don't teach these young comrades marxism? I guess we could just stay irrelevant forever. I actually have access to our recruitment logs, that guy doesn't, and while he says that we have 800 members, we currently have over 1500.

While many of the new comrades are still trapped in the illusions of identity politics, reformism, or basic social democracy, they want to learn, and unless we do it DSA will teach them to love kautsky and that dialectics are just European nonsense.

In my experience, DSA is led by Marxists who have read Hegel. Don't let sectarianism destroy SAlt and DSA's relationship. At least in my city we get along.

Their biggest problem is the same problem SAlt is having, a bunch of Berniecrats that need to read some books.

I'm dead serious. Anarchists have good praxis. Fucking up capitalism's shit really sends a message, as does using what it's too efficient to via squatting and using recycled food and such.
If you have any actual ideas that aren't stay at home and whine like a bitch I'd love to hear them, but I know for a fact that the Christian groups that do the type of thing I'm proposing are sustainable and have new people coming in. This is how turn of the century socialists and the Black Panthers got big. If you want to start a militia or something good luck with that but I'm not convinced it's going to go anywhere. Fuck off you contrarian.

I didn't ignore them, I excluded them because I haven't heard or seen anything good from them. They both run presidential candidates which is usually the mark of an extremely sectarian and flawed organization. They do great work in ANSWER but ANSWER has a large degree of independence and at any rate isn't really a membership organization.

Oh wow, how did you come to learn they're Green now? Do you pass around rumors about the Evil Maoists at your meetings to remind yourselves of how much better you are? What infantile clique behavior.
SAlt is going to stay on the list because I have hope not everyone in it is a shitstain like you- if anything you're only confirming that post has at least some legitimacy.
All white people benefit from racism, it's basic logic. You're just proving their point.

Alright I tried to give you a chance to take a hint but you're obviously too autistic for that. Get permabanned and go back to Holla Forums you whiny autist.

No, I don't unfortunately. They appear to be Platformist but that's about all I know about them. All the socialist orgs convene in Austin and I'm stuck in San Antonio ;_; so only CPUSA, DSA, FNB and something local called CASA meet here. I think there's also like Socialist Action and maybe some others but I have no interest in those guys. I could go investigate CPUSA but they seem to have suspended their meetings for some reason.

For all its worth the First International was really reactionary as shown by Woodhull being kicked out for shit she did on the side.
Trotsky was still one of the first people to use the word "racism" in its modern context.

Just been busy

Well what happened is (to my understanding from conversations with what few local comrades I HAVE met and my own observations from SAlt postings) that SAlt's support for Bernie was never genuine and that the goal all along was to show the Silly Proles that reform will never happen and the only way to bring about change was to join their organization in particular and follow their party line. That may have encouraged some new recruits to leave as well as push out older ones due to differences in approach. They also claimed credit for the post-election protests (or at least the national body did) and Sawant and others acted as its spokesman but their involvement was greatly exaggerated other than that it may have been their idea. But the person who told me most of this was one of those individualist greenie punk types who's basically suspicious and angry at everything, I'm sure if I asked him about Black Rose or anyone else he'd have equally harsh criticism. Like I said they're not going off the list for now because some chapters know what they're doing and other chapters don't even if the organization itself is a mess. Like DSA, really.

In San Antonio my understanding is that the DSA chapter is filled with good-intentioned but uneducated and unradicalized people. They're definitely left of the Democrats but pretty Bernie-tier over all. But that's just one chapter and only because they haven't had anyone to teach them, they're probably ripe for introduction of Marxism.

I get on very well with DSA marxists, and we share many goals, but as they do not have a party line that they need to adhere to, the quality of their education groups varies wildly from city to city, and it is not uncommon for liberal feminists to castigate marxists for being class reductionist in DSA meetings.

Personally, I see the growth of the DSA as the strongest sign that the left has a future. But, their strongest current, the jacobin/left platform is solidly reformist, and Bhaskar openly calls himself a kautskyist.

Lol fuck Bhaskar, He supports the Syrian rebels and that's enough to make me dismiss him.

What exactly is Kautskyism? Is it just memey pacifist socialism or what.

If I'm correct, this is what SAlt's leadership is so afraid of. Am I right? They don't want what happened to the Occupy movement to happen to them. And that's fair. It's important to stay focused. But I don't think a strong focus means you have to be totally ignorant of identity politics. It makes sense that an org would dedicate resources to something non-class related only if it's urgent or benefits the org's outreach, but at the very least the internal operations and rhetoric of the organization should be more holistic.
Sage because I'm not supposed to triple post.

No, actually we need to ~do~ nothing!

You're obsessed with action, therefore nothing gets done. Just see.

Good thread, but…


It wasn’t “on the side” or “intersectional”, it really was literally replacing class struggle with bourgie idpol. Read about the highly acrimonious split between genuine working class women’s movements and the highly porky housewife-dominated “feminist”/“suffragette” movements of the day.

Either drink less Kool-Aid, or more bleach, Lares.

You're right that there was a problem with that but Woodhull wasn't a part of it from what I've read. Free love involvement was the main reason they kicked her out and that was hardly a lily-white bourgeois thing.
You have to remember that, language standards and different cultural realities aside, it was called the IW>M

In times of crisis the workers gravitate to organizations with a mass praxis and long, well-established histories. That wouldn't be any of the professional revolutionary "vanguard" parties and it certainly won't be fucking anarchist cliques who go out of their way to prevent people from joining.

It will be things like the IWW and DSA and even fucking CPUSA despite how much I hate them.

I agree that these guys certainly aren't doing anyone any favors by not doing outreach at all and they'll be no good to normies in the future but at the very least in the present the Professional Socialists you find here and other places should be able to gain some use from them.
Why do you hate CPUSA, is it just the Hillary thing or what?

Remember in the American Election General, when somebody posted some links to articles on the CPUSA site, many of which went beyond endorsing Clinton, into explicitly stating that we must outreach toward corporate interests? I think they've spent so long as a honeypot full of alphabet infiltrators, like the KKK, that there really is nothing left of the original organization.

I'm sure the rank-and-file of CPUSA are perfectly fine, but the leadership is just a combination of neoliberal shills and FBI infiltrators.

What do people think of the Red Guards popping up in a few cities, I think Austin is a main one you're bashing Maoists and saying the only exist of the internet but they actually seem really good

I don't give a shit about orgs or the left, I care about constructing institutions and practices that train the proletariat to seize generalized crises of capitalist social relations and initiate sweet, sweet dicprole to crush bourgeois political power and begin communist relations of reproduction.

Orgs should focus on that and producing communist militants who can lead and coordinate.

Noo Thredd:

Why would you make new thread already?

isn't it kind of contradictory for maoists to start in cities?
Also, they do the same protesting shit that the OP roasted. Burning american flags and making dead-pig jokes about cops isn't going to make people say "oh gee, maybe socialism isn't satan". It's going to scare people and turn more of them to the alt-right. It's a shit-tier tactic.