Saw something a while ago on leftytwitter that's still buggin me

Saw something a while ago on leftytwitter that's still buggin me.
There was some anarchist who was unironically arguing that any organization whatsoever is oppressive and bad. They weren't providing justification, just claiming that organization = hierarchy, full stop, and you don't need organization to have a functional society.
How common is this belief among anarchists, and if so is there some kind of argumentation supporting it? I thought "organization is bad" was a fucking joke. I consider myself an ancom, but that entails the people of a society making decisions from the bottom up. One of the biggest problems with capitalism is parallel development, and you won't overcome that if people don't collaborate.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy
bbc.com/future/story/20161215-why-bees-could-be-the-secret-to-superhuman-intelligence
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

There are some currents within anarchist and ultra-communist thought that argue official organizations will lead to fixed hierarchies. This does not mean they are against organizing in itself, they instead promote organization within temporary affinity groups

For some people anarchism isn't a political ideology and its just the phobia to organization
We need to draw the line between anarchism/Communism and phobia to organization

Fuck off. You do literally nothing but promote sectarian division with your shitty lenin hat flag in every thread and it makes me deeply suspect you of being a Holla Forums plant

...

Not even Stirner rejected organization. Seriously, fuck anarcho-liberals.

He's right though. We need to save anarchism from idiots.

That's not what this person was arguing though. At first that's what I thought but they quickly said that all organization is immediately a hierarchy and oppressive. They said that no organization is not oppressive and that society should operate based on "stigmergy" and linked the wikipedia article.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy

What did he mean by this?

Yeah, they self-identify as an egoist, that really fucking confused me. Stirner tried to run a fucking co-op.

Okay I'll admit, that's pretty stupid.

Pardon my language, but that's pretty retarded. For society to function we need long-term structures, networks, affinity groups, etc.

Instead of solving or trying to tackle the problem they cut themselves off from the platform within which the problem could possibly manifest. Evading problem solving isn't problem solving.

Very cowardly and dumb, if indeed this is their reasoning.


They seem to confuse hierarchy with authority. It could be argued that within every organization some kind of authority naturally develops: this comrade has excellent agitation skills, that comrade writes bad ass articles, this comrade is a great organizer, etc. But this is the kind authority that even Bakunin recognizes as OK.

If this was their reasoning I'm afraid their real reasons could be threefold: aversion to organizational work (or work, in general), fear of coming to realize that they aren't as special their secluded bubbles allow them to think, and possibly envy of other's authority.

pic unrelated

I guess you could say that. The person they were arguing with specifically asked about friends deciding to do things as a group via consensus. The response was to the effect of organizing what to do is a shitty way to treat friends IIRC.

Sounds like they are mentally ill. Seriously.

Childishness. Organization presupposes some kind of unity of action and thought: we become comrades (and not friends) because we want to achieve the same thing and at least have some shared ideas how to get there. Political organizations aren't about friendships (though they don't necessarily exclude them either), they are about reaching a common goal with a common method.

What was a really professional aspect of the early Bolshevik experience is how they could separate their personal lives from their political one: they debated each other fiercely as comrades, but could still maintain friendships with their theoretical rivals.

Separate occasion, I read a blog post they made arguing for "mad pride" that schizophrenics and such should claim mental illness as a positive identity. All I can say is I think it's some advanced form of alienation. This is just one person, what I'm worried about is whether this is some kind of current within anarchism.

I have occasionally heard anarcho-liberals make this argument before but it's typically the product of a confusion in semantics or a severe misunderstanding of what anarchism entails. The vast majority of anarchists would find this idea monumentally stupid, it's by no means a significant tendency.

So, I read the wiki article. It could have applications for solving single issues, but even then you need something like a chatroom and logs to record ideas. It's by no means a substitute for actual organization for something as complex as revolutionary activity. Ants use it for the specific purpose of getting from the nest, to food, and back. It occasionally works with humans to predict the weight of a cow.
bbc.com/future/story/20161215-why-bees-could-be-the-secret-to-superhuman-intelligence
It's remarkably understudied and potentially powerful to the point that I have that bookmarked to remind me about swarm thought's potential, but it's just not a way to organize a whole system at all.
That being said, Dauve and Kropotkin's diatribes against deliberation as a way to usurp the role of spontaneous action are generally spot on - what matter aren't the high ideas discussed in a soviet and the resolutions per se, but rather the concrete collective action which occurs on the ground.

Yeah, the argument was that no organization is necessary or desirable and that swarm activity would do everything… Some things just plain need discussion and organization. A lot of things require precise and technical actions, like engineering.

Planning by linear optimization of in-kind input-output tables through swarm thought when?

Yeah but what happens when the algorithm has a mistake?

Then we get to make Stalin look like an anarchist.