Anarchism is Just Liberalism

Anarchism will never produce communism because it is simply liberalism with a socialist face. Like liberals, anarchists see 'illegitimate' authority as the enemy, not capitalism. Their only reason for being anti-capitalist is because they see it as being a long con created by 'illegitimate authorities' rather than a natural outgrowth of history which, like most great human inventions, outlived its usefulness long ago and must be replaced by a more efficient and equitable system. Anarchist efficiently are against 'systems' as such. As many an anarchist will constantly remind you, this isn't the same thing as being pro-chaos. However, it is an endorsement of the liberal concept of autonomy. Anarchists see all 'mutual aid' as only being voluntary associations of individuals. They forget that their conception of mutual aid, in contradiction to the man who coined the term, is rooted in the liberal democratic concept of laissez faire capitalism itself. Anarchism is thus simply a purely social and anti-economic laissez faire capitalism. It adovactes to end the State not to rebuild society in the interest of the worker but to abolish completely the idea of economy in favor of a society where freedom within the limitations of others tolerance is the ultimate satisfaction.

Therefore, anarchism does not escape liberalism. This is why identity politics have such a potent influence in the vast majority of modern anarchist organizations (this is not to discount that many maoist and marxist-leninist orgs have also given into idpol, but it is disproportionately the anarchist movement which does so).

It is why the anarchist has such a fetish for property destruction and the romanticization of poverty and working class culture. Like the liberal, the anarchist seeks only to strike back, to "resist", not to abolish and replace. Their idealistic and utopian dream of the abolition of the State is akin to the liberals equally utopian vision of the abolition of all bigotry and ignorance. These things are systems and as such can only be negated through systematic and organized action. The anarchist, like the liberal, wants only to beat back their challengers for personal pleasure and comfort. An anarchist smashing a bank window has more in common with a liberal congress passing healthcare reform than it does a true radical seizing and overthrowing the State in an armed uprising.

Even the 'succesful' revolutions like the Zapatista, Rojava, Spanish, Ukrainian etc ultimately contradict themselves through the creation of their own form of State. This is because a State is a necessary force to monopolize power by one class over another. It is impossible to pursue class warfare without the formulation of a State. This reflects the liberalism present in anarchism. Because they are social laissez-faire capitalists, they must maintain a State to maintain the gains of the SLF camp over the economic laissez faire capitalist.

There is also the issue wherein prominent anarchist or libertarian movements ultimately fold into liberal apologism and left wing anti-communism. It is quite hillarious that anarchists constantly claim that are anti-chaos because they believe in authority if it proves to be legitimate, yet constantly rail against the legitimate authority of the USSR, Cuban, Maoist Chinese, Vietnamese, and so on governments. How could the authority of these countries, at least originally, not be legitimate? They looked towards their libertarian counterparts in the international and saw only subverted and destroyed revolutions springing from their ideology. Yes the usual anarchist quip here is that these places all were subverted and destroyed. It's difficult, of course, to try and transform society into a new communist formulation without a massive international working class movement, even Marx said so. But consider that the communist countries achieved far more for a far greater amount of time than literally ANY anarchist 'revolution'.

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Other urls found in this thread:

theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism
anarchism.pageabode.com/pjproudhon/appendix-proudhon-and-marx.html
marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/1866/catechism.htm
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

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Add to this the fact that Occupy Wall St folded into the Bernie Sanders campaign, among other types of reformism like constantly spouting off about the CIA supported Rojava, despite a state being in place there, or Nuit Debout, a largely libertarian movement, folding into the Melenchon campaign. Take for instance Chomsky's resort to "lesser evilism" in the last election and his previous statements that he believes the liberal democratic State should be empowered to combat the Corporate State. Anarchists prefer tolerance of laissez faire autonomy (sublimated into the social realm) over an actual revolution in society starting from the base and working upwards to the superstructure.

Anarchism is liberalism for those too afraid to accept that a society which as for over 600 years functioned as something completely antithetical to socialism in all elements of life, base and superstructure, will need perhaps another 600 years of reformatting worldwide, and that for this to maintain it will need a strong State capable of inverting the liberal democratic State for a State in favor of the working class

Prove me wrong, protip U CANT

I don't disagree, but I think anarchism is a useful revolutionary tool because it causes the proletariat to be hyper vigilant about the State becoming too big or bureaucratic for its purpose.

This is why anarchist projects always much more closely resemble Marx's conception of the DotP (i.e., the Paris Commune) than Marxist-Leninist projects.

t. Reddit brocialist

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Agree 100% well said

Thank you comrade. I feel anarchists have become a majority here lately and idk why. I think our numbers grew after redditors started to come here during the Sanders campaign and they latched onto anarchism in large numbers because it's babys first socialism

Fuck off Marxist.

Fuck off idealist.

Nice wall of text. But any honest reading of anarchist theory would have told you that it's fairly shallow and misrepresentative, and a quick look at "tankie twitter" or reddit would disabuse you of the notion that the problems of idpol are exclusively or even primarily centered on anarchism.

And no, I'm not an anarchist. Just someone who plans on allying with anarchists and doesn't find strawmanning potential allies a useful use of my time

This is something else I forgot to mention.

Anarchists are like liberals in that they believe in the "free marketplace of ideas" meme they are just much more autistic about it. They basically do what everyone accuses Maoists of, which is pushing their idea of revolution down everyone's throat and screaming about how wrong everyone else is because they lack critical thinking skills while not applying said skills to themselves.

So a liberal eh

but this describes leftcoms

Anarkiddy status: fucking ROASTED

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have you read bordiga even once

I am pro chaos.
I still don't understand people that are desperate to recreate the USSR, they are effectively reactionary.

No actual refutation of any of my points, criticism of my analysis, or anything. Just insults and non-sequiters. To be expected of liberals

See pic related.

Stopped reading there. As for your talks on "mutual aid" you're referring to Proudhon an anarcho-mutualist, while deliberately forgetting about Kropotkin.

theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution


Jee wiz mister, I guess I better forget about all those anarcho-syndicalists.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

The rest of this seems to be strawmen and and ad-homs and points repeated in favor of "laissez faire capitalism" thinking that we're mutualists.

By the marxist defition, yes, but by the anarchist definition, not at all. A state is a form of centralised power with the power of direct governance over the people. You're being an absoute knob.

Furthermore, let's not forget how Bolsheviks spread lies and backstabbed anarchists in Ukraine, shall we?


So, Stalin represents all of communism then? Flawless logic.

Seriously OP, I've met some gays in my life time who aren't as much of a faggot as you are.

So more strawmen and ad-homs. You arent even specific of the anarchists you criticise. Where did these anarchists touch you, user?

See


There's your refutation. Now fuck off

/thread

every anarcho-syndicalist was really just a state-socialist at heart, which is why they had the meme ideology of destroying the state through a union of unions, which is literally what the USSR was trying to be

I was actually referring to kropotkin


Literally never said that, I gave multiple examples of how anarchists and libertarian-led social movements always end up collaborating with liberals or allowing liberals to infiltrate their movement to such a point that it becomes impotent.

How
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kek this rage is literally Holla Forums-tier, why are you all so angry that I even dared criticize your stupid ideas

Look at the link posted you sperg. Furthermore, you may as well have been talking about Proudhon, because Kropotkin believed in the abolishment of Markets and laissez faire-capitalism as a whole. You are wilfully ignorant.


And they failed spectacularaly and turned into a state-capitalist super state. Further more anarcho-syndicalists, as I have stated, do not believe in a centralised forms of beauracratic government, which is what the USSR became. Honestly dude, drop the hammer and sickle and swap your avatar to a tank.


Which is what your argument was based off of.


Last time I checked, Anarchists within Catalonia killed off liberal buisness and factory owners along with the fascists.

The only Holla Forums tier dickhead is you m8.
You are literally driving a wedge between Marxists and anarchists. You are Holla Forumstier and you should either read more or lurk more. Preferably both.

Anarchists for a very long time were the absolute majority on this board, you are mistaken if you believe it is a recent trend, if anything anarchism is decreasing on this board.

please god


Nice wall of text. But any honest reading of marxist leninist theory would have told you that it's fairly shallow and misrepresentative :^))

The holy trifecta of anarchist strawmanning, well done. I would actually reply sincerely if you had written about the strategic implications of non-hierarchy vs hierarchy instead of sectarian DLARPing

Pure idealism. In practice I think it is absolutely dumpster tier. Most anarchists don't even identify as anti capitalists or being class oriented anymore. They've extended this to animal rights, climate change, and a ton of other single issue campaigns far removed from an overthrow of the government. This puts them in the "liberal" camp for me, because they basically have a laundry list of things they'd "like" to get rid of but never will with how poorly organized they are and how they act. Also, the status quo isn't really afraid of anarchists because they know how ineffective they are at doing anything large scale.

Like many, I originally went through a phase where I thought anarchism was the only answer from here on out. I went with that until I got far enough down the rabbit hole that i started to take primitivism seriously. After a while, I got burned out super hard and realized it was all just masturbatory bullshit between relatively cozy middle class people, and that they'd completely lost sight of the top priority, and that is capitalism/the state. It is strange how they will focus on vague ideas and push class struggle completely on the side, as if its less important. I find it absolutely delusional on their part to do this.

On top of this, a common charge on leftypol is that ML's are the strongest peddlers of idpol. In my experience, this isn't even remotely the case. Most ML's are far more well read, and less inclined to spew bullshit statements like "kill all white men" or some other garbage.
It seems to me that anarchists and Maoists are always trying to be the *most* edgy while the so called "authoritarians" are actually pretty chill and willing to work with people. It ironically makes the anarchists look like delusional authoritarians and the ML's look like people that just realize that we need some real kind of structure to get anything done. In general, I could say that a lot of anarchists just simply don't have their shit together and a lot of the shit they do actually does alienate the hell out of anyone that might otherwise be sympathetic to their cause. I think the old guard style Marxists seem to be far more measured in their argumentation, composure, and penchant for violence. Perhaps I wouldn't feel so bad about anarchists if they didn't jack themselves off to people like Noam Chomsky and swallow gobs of bourgeois propaganda about the USSR, Cuba, etc.

I just want to add that anarchists are their own worst enemies. They almost spend more time dumping on other leftists than anything else, to a point where they look like counter revolutionaries.
I mean this in the sense that they will call ML's "authoritarian" as if they're entirely peaceful and never do anything wrong by default. They criticize the USSR for having "gulags" and seem to have no answer for how they'd handle counter revolutionaries in the same situation. Or worse, they'll still use gulags, but will call them something different, as if changing the name totally absolves them of their own criticisms. Again, this reeks of liberalism to me, because its a common liberal tactic to criticize others while absolving yourself from any of it. Rather than accept the criticism and change their ideas, they continue plodding on as if they're always right by default. It's nuts.

I remember reddit raids being better

Tbe from a lolbert

user, I'm glad you let this out of your system, having too much pent up anger is unhealthy. Cheers

ahh great argument

It's impossible to reply to since you make around 20 claims in one post with half of them being false

OP, liberalism will produce socialism by necessity (through the forces of the market necessitating/incentivizing technological and cultural advancement)

kek anarchists are a huge fucking joke jesus christ

Okay. I'll give you a reply to your first paragraph.

Not true, globally a vast majority of anarchists are class struggle types of various varieties.


This was maybe true in the 90's when the ALF was hip. But I don't really see the problem with single issue campaigns, a lot of them can improve the conditions of the working class and strike blows to capital while raising class conciousness


I'm not sure what this means


This is completely untrue, whenever there's an anarchist riot you have bourgeoise media freaking out completely.

My old roommate was a massive homosexual who routinely got spitroasted and you've managed to out faggot him.

MUH STRONK STATE IS TEH SUPERMANS
you fail at socialism
nevar forget ML

Tbh your point was trivilized already with your use of meme terms like brocialist and the way you greentext in all of your replies, if you had ssomething actually important to add to the political dialogue then you would at least try to use more accurate terms and use concise syntax.

Liberalism and Marxism are two separate ideology. Marxism is not merely the "evolved" form of liberalism. This is what anarkiddies seem to forget.

This is extremely autistic. I cannot reply to your wall of text without creating an even more massive wall of text. I really shouldn't put this much effort into responding to what is likely just bait. Forgive me.

Wrong. Most anarchists are materialist to at least some extent. Anarchist opposition to capitalism is for almost exactly the same reason as communists. Anarchist s oppose capitalism on the grounds of material, economic, ethical and social grounds. "Illegitimate authority" is merely one aspect of that opposition.
"Autonomy" is not a concept exclusive to liberals. This just a retarded thing to say.
This is just hilariously wrong. Mutual aid comes from Kropotkin's study of biology and is rooted in the concept of sociality. Kropotkin determined that social species had adapted to provide mutual aid because of the evolutionary benefit conferred and applied that logic to human, who are also social animals. Mutual aid thus is intrinsic to the human species, was demonstrably a major factor in primitive societies, and would naturally reassert itself as Capitalism waned in influence. It has nothing to do with laissez-faire economics.
Anarchists don't want to "abolish" the economy. Economics can't simply be abolished, rather anarchists believe the economy should reconfigured so as to benefit all people as opposed to economics as a means of enrichment for the bourgeoisie. This is entirely compatible with the Marxist concept of workers' emancipation.
Wrong again. Anarchists, by and large, support revolutionary action. Hence why we've had projects like Catalonia, Rojava etc. Even the insurrectionists who you would caricature as "destruction fetishists" do so with the goal of inspiring revolutionary action. They are influenced by the doctrine of "propaganda of the deed". It is a form of agitation, not mindless "resistance"
Which is exactly why anarchists advocate organized action. Anarchist ideologies are literally all about organized action. Anarchists created the IWW, Syndicalism, Collectivism for exactly this purpose. Even groups like Antifa and the Black Bloc have solidarity and organization among their primary objectives.

Cont. from

Yet another baseless ad-hominem. If anarchists are so selfish why did so many of them choose to fight and die in international conflicts that have nothing to do with their personal lives? If anarchists really just cared about personal comfort they would not be involved with the left at all - an endeavor that has almost no benefit to anyone living in a Capitalist state and potentially huge drawbacks.
It's debatable whether if there was a "state" in any of these projects. If there was - presumably the goal would have been to dismantle it gradually. Contradictions are inevitable until the revolution completes as the process of transforming into an anarchist society can't happen overnight. External pressures also played a large role, with a state-like apparatus being somewhat necessary response to outside aggression. It had little, if anything, to do with "maintaining gains".
But anarchists seek the abolish of classes, not just the supremacy of one over another so this is a moot point.
I don't think you understand the character of the anarchist opposition to authority. Anarchist do not believe in the imposition of authority by one group over another in any circumstances. Any respect for authority, legitimate or not, must be agreed to voluntarily by the one you are attempting to impose "authority" on. The minute it stops being voluntary it is no longer legitimate. It doesn't matter how that authority "originated' it's about opposition to exploitation and the imposition of authority against the will of the people. All, or at least most, of the governments you named violated these principles at one point or another.
All they "achieved" was state capitalism. Hardly something worthy of celebrating, however long it lasted.

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OP BTFO

Capitalism is an illegitimate authority by definition. Anarchists defined and attacked capitalism in many ways which Karl Marx borrowed and then attacked them for supposedly not doing. You illiterate.
anarchism.pageabode.com/pjproudhon/appendix-proudhon-and-marx.html
Proofs? Kropotkin speaks of it as a potential basis for a new system, not in terms of the "is-ought" fallacy of Locke in desperately trying to justify the "rights" which he pulled out of his ass.
Not really sure what smashies and post-leftists have to do with the CNT and Bakunin. They openly admit to being liberals (or that they "were one" 2 weeks ago) if you press them a little. Anarchism is even more dead than Marxism in America, m8. This is ridiculous.
I don't know, because a dictatorial party in every single case usurped the legitimate working class power of the Soviets? Do you even know what anarchists actually propose?
marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/1866/catechism.htm
There are very specific proposals tailored to very specific timeframes for all varieties of anarchists. We can actually point to various structures and say "these are acceptable as sufficiently organic in origin, let us defend them against counterrevolution, as socialism must be by and for the proletarians themselves". Marx and Bakunin both defended the Paris Commune, as would have Bordiga. This cannot be said for illiterate MLs who think that you can "impose" socialist ideals upon the people. Not only is it undialectical from a Marxist standpoint, it is also utopian and unanarchist.
And the classical trade union movement, at its most revolutionary in the West from the 1880s to the 1920s, was mostly anarchist in that period. When did it, at least in America, fall into reformism and class collaborationism? When the CPUSA took over on Stalin's directives. The point isn't "Marxists are always reformists"; that would be as dumb as you. No, movements live and die in the moment of what particular material conditions exist. The only real difference between actual Marxists such as the varieties of leftcoms and anarchists is that the Marxist will try to situate their praxis in historical materialism to see general trends of what will happen next given certain actions, whereas anarchists will situate theirs in seeing how existing institutions with potential for bottom-up control (such as trade unions with ansyns, for example
(cont)

Moreover, Kropotkin was advocating for communization long before any Marxist did. Dauve made new points within it, yes, but it was Kropotkin who called for the immediate establishment of communism on the basis of material conditions.

evident.
In what way does this not foresee every single aspect of the Russian Revolution, which resulted in little more than what Kropotkin would have called utopian collectivism, an attempt to establish a state of affairs which strained and collapsed beneath its own fundamental contradictions which had existed since conception?

I always see people say that the anarchist equivalent of Dauve's "Eclipse And Reemergence Of The Communist Movement" is "The Coming Insurrection". It isn't. That book's a piece of PoMo liberal trash. It's the Conquest Of Bread.

If anarchism's dead, at least leave its corpse alone, OP. It lived a noble life. Let it retain its dignity in death.

I'll be sure to embrace hierarchy and private property then because, gr8, never knew

Marxism-Leninism is just Social Democracy.

Liberalism is the old left and the modern left is just more advanced liberalism in which there are freedoms and equality. Marxism with its authoritarian dictatorship fits better with right wing fascism and monarchism.

I think this is the first funny Holla Forums meme I've ever seen

Are all anarchists literally just teenagers jesus fucking christ


The only anarchist or libertarian thinkers I've ever seen analyze and oppose capitalism on materialist grounds are Kropotkin and Proudhon (whose mutualism is essentially just a classical liberal economic model without the State and money). Bakunin started the whole "illegitimate authority is the root of all evil" meme and the majority of modern anarchists follow it to a t, only mentioning capitalism after the fact. Bookchin is a great example of this tbh.


I never said it was exclusive to liberals. What I mean was that anarchists use the specifically liberal version of autonomy. I guess that's on me for not making it clearer but the point still stands

This is just hilariously wrong. Mutual aid comes from Kropotkin's study of biology and is rooted in the concept of sociality. Kropotkin determined that social species had adapted to provide mutual aid because of the evolutionary benefit conferred and applied that logic to human, who are also social animals. Mutual aid thus is intrinsic to the human species, was demonstrably a major factor in primitive societies, and would naturally reassert itself as Capitalism waned in influence. It has nothing to do with laissez-faire economics.

Yes this is what I meant and again I'm sorry if I was not writing clearer. When I said it stood in contradiction to the man who coined the term I meant that Kropotkin's mutual aid is a good analysis because it's rooted in biology and thus materialist. That's why I said most anarchists, despite supposedly advoacating mutual aid, are not materialists because their conception of it is skewered by their liberal interpretation of autonomy


I've never heard any anarchist say this but if they truly believe that then too bad because you absolutely need a State to restructure the economy after revolution. You need a coercive institution to keep the reactionaries at bay. Please try and prove me wrong on this, I have, as I said in OP, a long list of failed anarchist revolutions to back me up


Again, you are simply ignoring what I actually said in the OP, not refuting it. This was my point precisely. The only anarchists I ever see doing any actual action are Black Blocs and antifa. Yes I realize this is not the entire movement, but it is the most prominent and public wing of the movement today. And they do so with the intent of inspiring revolutionary action so what? Bernie Sanders called his centrist succdemism "revolutionary". Calling a dog a cat with confidence doesn't make it so

I really don't feel like trying to go through and continue to debunk the rest of your post, as its basically what I already said was the problem, which is that you simply claim I made an argument I didn't make then attack the illusory argument. However this one statement somes up my "autistic wall of text" (its hillarious that you all bitched about the length of my analysis of your ideology than called ME stupid) quite nicely:

This is why you are all liberals. It is absolutely a meme to believe that the elimination of authority and autonomy for all groups necessarily means the downfall of capitalism as capitalism must be defeated first. You are reformists because you attack authority as such rather than the system which places authority into the hands of the oppressors. Please tell me how the countries I named overtly violated the rights of the majority in the interest of the minority of capitalists the majority of the time rather than the other way around.

You probably can't because history books about communism are too long and you prefer short essays written by Bakunion on the anarchist library

TBQH, it sounds to me like you were never an anarchist. Did you ever read anything? Have you read anything now?

Read "Anarchist Morality".

I really enjoyed Berkman, Goldman, Kropotkin, and Proudhon back then. I really liked Bakunin for a while too


Why waste time

What if I'm an ancom with leftcom characteristics who reads Marx and Zizek and understands the need for revolutionary violence?

Marxism-Leninism is capitalism btw

It'd be nice if you anarchists could ever explain how this actually is.

Really? Even I haven't read all 5 of those (only Proudhon and Kropotkin in depth). If you read both Proudhon, and Marx, then I'd expect you to notice that Marx took and claimed as his own much of what Proudhon wrote.
was it because Proudhon was no longer using it?
Also, speaking of which, when are you going to respond to my 3-part post refuting your OP?

Probably not tbh I'm getting tired of arguing with people who don't know what they are talking about and keep claiming I don't know what I'm talking about

To answer your question about Proudhon yeah I knew that Marx lifted many ideas from him so what?

I ask the same. Boy am I tired of arrogant know-it-alls.

Not anarchist, but the law of value was present in the USSR and workers did not own the means of production.

So how can you possibly claim that he's a liberal when both he and Marx said that he created the first variety of scientific socialism? "Anarchism is liberalism!" is an argument which implies that all the theory is similar to liberalism, which it plainly isn't. It has roots in classical liberalism, yes, but so does Marxism originally and differs about as much.
As you said yourself,
Those people who smoke weed and wear their hair like punks are liberals, not anarchists, and stand in opposition to the character and content of the writing of its original theorists.

This, I think, goes to a deeper problem with Marxism - unless it adopts the similar-to-anarchists thesis of alienation, which develops into Situationist theory, it lacks a strong basis for why capitalism ought to be destroyed once you realize that a cybernetic framework (one based upon control systems and closed-feedback loops, see the VSM) works better for analyzing the system of capitalism than dialectics and it is therefore the rule and not the exception that the system will continue on unless it has the seed of a new one within it. An idea can't handle contradictions which eventually hit the wall of paradox in the same way that a multipolar, multi-leveled, really existing system like capitalism can withstand the temporary failure of one of its components.
If you'd read Dauve and the sections of The German Ideology which attack Stirner, you'd realize that Marxism and anarchism advocate both. They're individualist ideologies with common origins.
You're using the Marxist definition of the state, which is useless because it takes the term "government" and adds on a tautology that the state always defends the interests of a ruling class. The state creates ruling classes precisely because the state is the separation of power between people - it's little more than a mechanism for that, yes, but it can sustain itself and create new ones. That people can willingly deny this after the 70 year long Bolshevik fiasco (as it was never soviet after the Bolsheviks took power) is amazing to me. The only solution is to abolish both state and capital by putting power in the hands of the institutions of workers themselves and eliminating the firm as a site of value production. The argument of Kropotkin in the bread book isn't to just eliminate the state and then things will be fine and dandy. That you don't realize this makes me think that you're talking out of your ass when you say that you've read him. He's saying that all forms of power's exercising derived from the old order must be destroyed to retain intact the decentralization of power within the new order. This stands in sharp contrast to classical liberals, who simply called for one form of domination from the old order (bourgeois property) to overtake another one (the institutions of feudalism) and achieved little more than capping off a gradual social revolution with a meaningless political one.

You don't seem like an expert on anarchism so this is not a very strong argument.
This is way too heavy of a debate for me to get into with some random on leftypol with. This is crux of the entire communist-anarchist divide. Citing "failed revolutions" is poor strategy especially since Marxism's history isn't significantly better. Anarchists believe that collective action through horizontally-aligned groups will be sufficient to stamp out reactionaries. The examples of anarchist societies we've seen seem to bear this idea out. The "failed" anarchist states were not destroyed from within but only fell to external powers. Conversely, there isn't a single Marxist state I'm aware of that didn't succumb to internal corruption.
This is just because you aren't looking very hard. There are plenty of activists taking action besides those two groups. In Rojava and Chiapas there are ongoing revolutions that receive support from anarchists all over the world. There are anarchist-oriented unions like the IWW, syndicates like CNTFAI, anarchist charity projects like the Black Cross and Food Not Bombs, anarchist communes like Mujeres Libres I could go on. Of course there are also all the anarchist theorists, Infoshop operators, cryptoanarchist hacktivists, public intellectuals like Chomsky etc. Just because you only pay attention to Antifa and Black Bloc doesn't mean that they represent the majority of anarchist activity. They are only a small part of the anarchist movement.
I never called you stupid. I said your post was an autistic wall of text because your post contained a large number of independent statements which made it unnecessarily hard to respond to elegantly.


The elimination of authority is synonymous with the downfall of Capitalism, they aren't separate movements.
I didn't say they did any such thing. I said that they imposed authority on people against their will. This is evident in the long-term operation of labor camps, secret police, and the suppression of dissent and silencing of political opponents even against their fellow Left-wing comrades. Not to mention that the common people in these countries generally had little to no say in the political process.
Continuously strawmanning your comrades like this is a bad habit.

Liberals aren't my comrades

You seem to realize that there's little connection between what Kropotkin, Proudhon, Berkman, Goldman, Bakunin, etc. actually wrote and what self-described anarchists today believe and act upon. If that's true, then the descriptor "anarchist" means two things and you have to let us know which one it means. If all those theorists were anarchists, then you can't meaningfully say that smashies are anarchists. If you say that smashies are the real anarchists, then what does that make Kropotkin? A leftcom? He's certainly far more similar to them than to smashies.

Great post except for this part. You have far too much faith in 20th century socialist projects, which were really only proletarian because of the color of their flags.

We can best comprehend 20th century socialist projects as anti-imperialistic social democracies which sought to reduce the immediate material deprivation of their populations while also criticizing bourgeois imperialism in rhetoric and sometimes policy.

I'm pretty sure that he's talking out of his ass. He makes a long OP and gets long answers, then refusing to answer all but the most retarded of them. He's trying to do a Gish Gallop to conceal his lack of knowledge and failing.

imo i worry more about leninists who are dogmatically fixated on 20th century forms of authoritarian organisation. State power quickly becomes and end in itself, Maoists and Leninists repressed actual worker attempts at self organisation. Even during the cultural revolution, people who demanded worker's self management or material reforms where branded as 'economistic' for not focusing their energies in rooting out 'capitalist roaders', 'monsters and freaks'. Just look at what happened to the Shanghai Commune, Mao was all for revolution up to a point, same goes for Lenin and Castro. At its core, Leninism assumes the rationality of the authoritarian state is the only true form of rationality, when history has shown again and again the opposite is the case.

And you call yourself a Marxist? How about generalized wage labour and commodity production? Foundational for capitalism and very much present in all ML states.

Anarchist societies have been shown to be much better at creating socialism than Marxist ones.

This is why we laugh at tankies tbqh.

How many times will you autistic LARPers try to reenact your deluded, destructive and genocidal power fantasies?

Read "The Anarchist Banker" by Pessoa, as well.

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That's not even the annil flag.