what the fuck is wrong with anarchists? i mean seriously, i feel depressed as fuck. first i blamed myself. I thought I did something wrong or couldn't simply connected with these people. nah man, seriously, anarchism in 2017 is more dead than than stalin himself. this was really depressing to see. now I truly understand what Bookchin was talking about.
save anarchy from the anarchists or maybe it's already too late.
well what did you expect from Autism: the Ideology?
Yes, and?
You sound like a normie.
seems like a nice place
shit m8, feel bad for you. in the PNW there's lots of good groups that get together
maybe, but it's an open event. how do they meet with new people? how do they even organize with this attitude? so i found out, they don't actually. they hang out with the same 20-40 people and they occupy the field of "anarchism" in that city just because they opened a cafe and hang out there, being edgy. oh and twice a month they cook dinner for people. "food not bombs". oh well.
seriously man. idk maybe i'm getting too old for this shit.
I feel the same fam. I love anarchism but fuck most anarchists.
Lifestylism. Tbh what you described doesn't sound that bad, you have to rember they're rightly scared of cops infiltrating after all.
A nationalist shit hole that functions like a monarchy supported by edgy first world teenagers.
Before those fucking-annoying-as-hell communalism shills show up, anarchism being the way it is today doesn't automatically validate Bookchin. His ideology makes no sense in a world finally exiting the neoliberal-postmodern haze and returning to class warfare. The emphasis on coherence to the point of being detrimental to the scope of analysis at times and on rejecting class warfare as LARPing made sense before 2008, but not now.
Join Action Front
is this a thing? I'm autistic so I wouldn't know.
Now you know why communalists refuse to call themselves with anarchists.
And how much can you bet that whenever there's a protest or occupation these people assume a de facto leadership and become a clique with this same elitist and exclusive attitude?
Anarchism is shit but autistic isn't the word. Anarchism usually suits the outter layers of normiedom, and the presumptions and sensitives behind it are very liberal and mainstream, both of which contribute to making the anarchist's transition into a centrist cretin who casually flirts with libertarian capitalism after they turn 24 easier.
its a thing in every leftist grassroots group but with anarchists it is moreso because of the non strict nature of their organizations
a lot of smashies are undercover cops.
How about you talk to someone you fucking autist? They'll talk to you you know.
It sound like you just hovered around some anarchists and excepted someone to come hug you and give you a cookie.
This tbh. It seems as if op is not aware of normal social etiquette.
Agree. I have generally been treated very welcoming and warmly at anarchist spaces. Even if you are an unsocialized NEET like OP they love to introduce you to their place, but first you have to let them know you actually want an introduction
this is not OP btw.
I think lots of people here have had similar experiences with anarchism.
In practice it attracts a lot of assholes, drug addicts, and just plain antisocial people.
Go to socialist/communist events instead. We're nicer people and nobody is going to shit down your neck if you still hold onto more anarchistic beliefs.
I'm a smoker and consider indoor smoking to be simply uncivilized. It's like staying inside the toilet after you took a shit just to enjoy the odors a little more, inviting friends in, even.
You like uncomfortable seats? Sitting while thinking that the shit plastic chair could break under you any minute?
And this is how anarcho pubs end up looking like your usual billboard littered capitalist urban environment, but instead of CocaCola and McDonalds logos everywhere we get "FUGG GOPS" & "look up my shit band.com" stickers.
Nothing better than touching the table at a cafe and feeling it stick to your hand, noticing that the shit around stains your clothes, using toilets that are clogged and haven't been cleaned in months, years of moldy chips and shit crunching under your feet, trash not being thrown out and pouring a rotting smell.
Go Leninist. They get shit done.
He makes even more sense now than ever before. The rightwing surge is largely because capitalist culture and society is reaching breaking points. Communities are dying and urbanisation is increasing again. Unions are dead af, while states all across the woorld are getting more authoritan. And technology is showing its true might just as predicted by Bookchin.
Not to mention the ecological catastrophe all around us.
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Yeah I love going to leninist spaces and cafés. Oh wait, they don't exist
Try talking to them at demos or shows.
Lelinists don't exist outside the internet. Irl it's MLs and they don't do anything.
you're supposed to read and agitate where you can (eg the internet) in preparation for the resurgence of the communist movement, not interact with socdem and opportunist larpers.
that's because they hold rallies, talks, and are busy building a vanguard movement, not larping you coffee shop revolutionary.
I'M not sure how's it where you live but in ex-eastern block they are nostalgia club for the retired
i'm too tired to read the whole thread
my experience with anarchist pubs and shit like that was pretty good
they okupied the…house? (it doesnt look like a house) of a pervert from the neighborhood, they fixed it as much as they can with not much money and recicled materials.
they have a rehearsal room (don't know if that the correct translation of sala de ensayo) because is also a cultural club. sometimes bands play there
they print some anarchist book and sell them "a colaboracion" (you pay as much as you can or you think it worth)
they are anarchist, but they are not sectarist, i can say that im a nazbol and they will have the patience to tell me why the fuck im wrong and i told them that im a marxist and they where totally ok with it
the place looks like shit, but is mantained and repaired by the members, is getting better and better
the booze and cigarettes are collectivized, we all put money to buy those
i will answer anything and post some photos when this SHIT PC WORKS LIKE IT SHOULD
If I become an anarchist do I get a goth gf
kys
living the dream
sounds really comfy tbh. I was mostly shitposting though.
you're not actually a nazbol are you?
exactly. Shit, youll find people alot more awkward as fuck in those kinds of places. But its ok, you dont really get judged for being yourself in those places, but you do actually need to interact with people and not juts exist in the space.
So they just kicked the guy out onto the street or what? I guess I shouldn't have expected anarchists to actually go against the prevailing social order.
Lifestylist anarchists are fairly cliquish, but they're generally pretty friendly if you're friendly to them. They can be very exclusionary if you give off weird vibes OP, so don't do that.
Yeah, because socially awkward people can just stop being awkward at will…
Lack of hierarchy doesn't mean we're receptive buttsluts to COINTELPRO/dramawhores/sociopaths.
Not being socially awkward takes work for some people, but it's an important skill that everyone should have. I used to be extremely awkward, but I forced myself to socialize and make friends and now it just comes naturally to me.
Yeah, Go fuck yourselves.
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Who would of thought people who want to live free of heirarchy, would be such exclusionary douchebags.
i know right? why do people want to associate with their own. i say we collectivize the tendies.
Is this a game of Nazi or Anarchist?
it's a game of autistic hikikomori complains that people follow social norms
I think he was more annoyed at the advice of "so don't do that". Some people really can't help it.
I mean, they're free to be exclusionary, but they have to accept that with that comes a lot of collateral damage in the form of well intentioned but socially awkward people. "Just don't be like that" isn't a valid solution.
I was poking fun at the way your post could, in a different context, be written by Holla Forums.
they HAVE to be exclusionary, there's plenty of pretenders around and they're at risk of being infiltrated by cointelpro.
i was being a twat on purpose because the other guy was being disingenuous on purpose. the fuck does he expect, of course people aren't gonna trust you if you are suspicious in any way.
I don't really know what to say. You're right in practical terms, but it's deeply depressing that the world is like that. It should at least serve as a warning that anarchism isn't anything special and won't magically solve the world's problems. Anarchist groups are constrained by exactly the same material conditions which constrain the rest of society.
just embrace Book man
user capitalism is still functioning, they don't exist in a vacuum.
Well, yes, but capitalism exists because of those same material conditions. You can't just remove capitalism, and if you try then it will just come back. You have to change the basis - the material conditions of production and existence itself.
If there's no capitalism nobody has to be excluded from the anarchist commune no matter how autistic.
I'm a lolicon and I fap to all sorts of weird shit. I find it exceptionally hard to believe I wouldn't be excluded.
as i said, don't throw spaghetti on the walls and shit on the floor.
Normal people can have a conversation with their friends about what they find hot without getting lynched. Nobody has mentioned fapping in public besides you.
Also this response really runs contrary to .
i would lynch you for fapping to loli hentai even if you weren't my friend
i actually have a friend who came out to me as a pedo, not a lolicon, an actual pedo. we're not even close and i didn't try to kill him, i didn't even insult him. Get better friends. Or is getting better friends hierarchical discrimination?
*wouldn't, ofc. Durr.
You're a good person, user. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I guess I'm just bitter and resentful.
hang in there user, i'm being a cunt because of the bantz. there's good people out there.
good job retard now you're on the watch list.
Thanks for the kind words. I was being a cunt too to be honest.
Man, I really envy groups like the pre-Revolution Bolsheviks. Guys on the same political wavelength as you, with whom you could discuss any topic, no matter how rarified. I only ever met one person like that, and we haven't talked in some 6 years.
I wish there was some social network that matched people by… wavelength, I guess.
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depends, when i say nazbol stuff is because i'm joking
kinda, the house was owned by the uncle of one of the members, the guy that was "kicked" and permabanned was his boyfriend
that uncle dissapeared, they thought he died because he had AIDS i say'd they because im new there
are you retarded?
That's pretty normal, human behaviour user. Everyone does that.
why the fuck should we care about that?
why the fuck should they know?
It's generally quite easy to track people on the internet.
Go fight in Rojava if you want to be near serious Anarchists
It's true. You might get teased a bit but anarchists have always been welcome at communist events
I'm pretty sure most commies regard anarchists as comrades. I know I do, at least.
why the fuck your anarcho-bros would care about what kind of porn you masturbate to?
if they are offended about what you do in your private life they are not anarchist
who the fuck wants to make friends? I just want to have comrades. Everything else doesn't matter
That's good to hear. I just get the impression that some people think anarchism is just another way of organizing mob justice against anyone who breaks whatever rules the community has democratically decided upon. Morality laws tend to be popular with people.
Intellectual dishonesty should have a limit
[citation;very much;needed]
i am
an i can say that is mostly true
but i think it's because im from the second biggest cocaine-consumer country in america
Are you in Berkeley, OP? You seem to be describing the Long Haul.
The fuck are you talking about, comrade? Marxists seem to have the biggest sticks up their ass and are constantly accusing anyone who questions anything they say as being "revisionists". While many anarchists are like OP described, some of them, especially the ontological/poetic anarchists are deep thinking open minded friendly people.
Some Marxists, and some anarchists. You're only describing your personal experience.
I respect sincere class struggle anarchists / ancoms, and I'm even sympathetic to certain aspects of primitivism and to a lot of stuff that MLs dismiss as "lifestylism," like squatting and dumpstering as a way to call attention to the wastefulness of capital. But anarchists who don't recognize that almost all anarchist scenes are organized as social cliques, and don't realize that this is a serious problem, are fish who don't realize that they're swimming in water.
Forget autists and NEETs, just try to take the outside view and recognize how anarchism as a milieu looks to the average wage slave normie like me who likes the idea of stateless communism but doesn't want to dress like a crust punk junkie and doesn't care about keeping up with the latest trends in fixed gear bike maintenance.
I didn't write the following, it was posted to le leddit several years ago by someone who eventually deleted his account, but it describes my own experiences with anarchism so perfectly that I saved it to a TXT for posterity:
Also, while "ableism" can turn into a dumb idpol buzzword, a lot of physically fit twentysomething crusty/traveler types truly don't seem to understand that in a classcucked society with no safety net, people with chronic illnesses HAVE to keep straight jobs because otherwise they'd lose their health insurance and be seriously fucked. Not everyone can drop everything and work part-time as a barista in a hipster coffee shop in between stretches of riding the rails.
The what now?
Go online
literally what?
So true.
The problem is that in these anarchist groups, no one is willing to
1)make rules
2)stick to them
No one is willing to say "telling someone to kill themselves" or "hitting another member" is against the rules, because they know that if they did that, they would be unable to police the social hierarchies.
Something that I find extremly disturbing about so-called anarchists is that in their minds ANYTHING can be justified, as long as you correctly identify the target as a fascist/reactonary. failing that you can mark them as a fascist apologist if they don't go along with your tactics.
It's scary actually. We're getting to the stage where people who are against violence are being called racists.
This place sounds rad tbh.
come on now.
Idiots like you would even defend Hitler's "free speech"
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this is why I have no faith in humans.
I wholeheartedly agree. I prefer 'libertarian socialism' over 'anarchism', cause the latter is very much associated with lifestylism, LARPing and rejection of organization of any kind. And ofcourse, as you mentioned, the worst kind of organization is the informal clique 'organization'. There's nothing wrong with having rules and enforcing them.
People who "no platform" speakers are arrogantly assuming that everyone shares their view on speech. Many anti fascists relish the chance to listen and debate with them. No platformers are also paternatlistic as fuck. placing everyone else as dumb proles who aren't able to make their own minds up if they get exposed to the ideas that they themselves has been exposed to.
poetic terrorism
urbandictionary.com
n. A movement dedicated to spreading random acts of beauty, poetry, wonder, magic and thought-provocation. The concept was originated by the writer Hakim Bey and has appeared in movies such as the cult French film Amelie.
Poetic terrorism differs from the concept of "random acts of kindness" in that its acts are not always kind, but its ultimate goal is not malice, but broadening of the mind. Poetic terrorist acts may, of course, be kind - they may also be weird, funky, shocking, provocative, counter-cultural, anachronistic, subtle, subversive, mischievous, dark, creative and fey.
Ontological Anarchy in a Nutshell
deoxy.org
T.A.Z.: The Temporary Autonomous Zone
T.A.Z.: The Temporary Autonomous Zone, is a book by anarchist writer and poet Hakim Bey (Peter Lamborn Wilson) published in 1991 by Autonomedia and in 2011 by Pacific Publishing Studio (ISBN 978-1-4609-0177-9). It is composed of three sections, "Chaos: The Broadsheets of Ontological Anarchism," "Communiques of the Association for Ontological Anarchy," and "The Temporary Autonomous Zone."
The book describes the socio-political tactic of creating temporary spaces that elude formal structures of control.[1] The essay uses various examples from history and philosophy, all of which suggest that the best way to create a non-hierarchical system of social relationships is to concentrate on the present and on releasing one's own mind from the controlling mechanisms that have been imposed on it.
In the formation of a TAZ, Bey argues, information becomes a key tool that sneaks into the cracks of formal procedures. A new territory of the moment is created that is on the boundary line of established regions. Any attempt at permanence that goes beyond the moment deteriorates to a structured system that inevitably stifles individual creativity. It is this chance at creativity that is real empowerment.
Bey later expanded the concept beyond the "temporary," saying "we've had to consider the fact that not all existing autonomous zones are 'temporary.' Some are … more-or-less 'permanent.'"[2] Hence, the concept of the Permanent Autonomous Zone.
Ah, so special snowflake LARPers. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Relatable af m9.
For this reason I proposed the local class struggle anarchists that we ought to disassociate with these lifestylists (who are not even politically anarchist tbh) and condemn them as deviants who have apropriated the ideology.
I was met with disaproval by the others, who called my ideas too radical. Turns out they don't really want to get rid of the lifestylists and build the movement up again as it ought to be.
This has pretty much caused me to stay away from anarchism for a while, so I can rest from all these hypocrites, who claim they want anarchism to become a real movement, but refuse to do what is necessary for that to happen. They refuse to eliminate the conditions that make anarchism a tiny sect for punks and drug users.
with me, one guy wanted to fuck me and keeps stalking me after one year from the day I've went to one meeting. Quite spooky. Now, instead, I'm thinking in starting an online show on anarchism like the stimulator
heh
These are shit-tier drugs. It's all about weed and acid and shrooms and DMT and Iboga and Peyote!
Let's collectivize those too.
Word up, hommie.
Hey now fellow proletarian, I'll have you know that I have a wide collection of hardhats and have watched over 100 episodes of football. Would you like to go to the public house for a casual conversation about abolishing the value form?
we also have a plant of weed but still to small to give some flowers
pfff
They can freely speak as much as they want until they try to take a stand, that's what having a platform is for; it acts to legitimize and normalize hatred and violence against minority groups. Bitching and moaning on the internet and having a platform in the media and at educational establishments are completely different things.
I have the feeling that I am the only anarchist who knows how to keep house.
they told me that they had a plantation, but they burned it al because a police letter
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If anarchists understood how normal people interact with one another, they wouldn't be anarchists
Your entire argument just revolves around moralist bullshit. Stay spooked cuckmeister
Except invade other groups and each other with sectarian D&C and holier-than-thou attitudes and mistake socialism for a religion where everyone has to agree on everything, even praxis (Spauts, ICFI, SEP, PSL etc.)
I'm dead serious I'm really racking my brain here and the only thing that Trots and Stallies are good at is dividing and being annoying. Case in point, Gloria La Riva running against the openly anti-capitalist Stein/Baraka ticket. Even Maoists are better, Actually I take that back Maoists are straight-up good I don't care what anyone says and the only real problems plaguing the left are neoliberalism pretending to be social democracy and these screeching censorers ie cops.
My experience with socialists and anarchists in the wild is pretty much this. They're doing less than they really should for the revolution but they'd probably spring at it if an opportunity shoved itself in their face. That's why more initiatives have to start. That being said there are plenty of poseurs as well but if you treat them like real anarchists hey, they may become real anarchists some day. At least they're pretending.
Absolutely this, especially this
Not only is it idealistic nonsense in thinking that ideals run the world and not material conditions, it's like you said extremely patronizing where everyone else is too dumb so they can't hear the wrong ideas otherwise they'll believe them.
You think it's because they aren't actual revolutionaries and just want to continue what they have with their lifestylist buddies, or that they believe that it'd be damaging to the movement to exclude anyone?
There are no platforms that do not serve the system and they should all be destroyed, not protected from the ugly face of Capitalism.
-Sent from my asspussy
holy shit youre a fag, I kinda hate smashies but I would totally spread rumors that yer an informant
Only redeemable thing about you is how naive you are, you thought your local anarchoids sat around drinking chai and discussing literature as opposed to shooting heroin into their appendages and picking lice out of each others dreads, thats fucking adorable, ive seen anarchist circles on two continents and 4 countries and they are basically deranged homeless people, they mean well through the haze of mindaltering substances but they are for the most part broken people and of course completely infiltrated, at least in the west. They have reached a useful idiot level that is on par with the hard right
if you want to find some anarchists that arent total degens your best bet is to get involved in some kind of communal project, you know something where they actually build shit, thing is those have a tendency to get shut down quick, one thing the anarchists are definitely right about is that the state doesnt like it when you build..alternatives
I met an anarchist once. I would describe him as an edgy teenager with drug abuse problems and rich parents. So basically just rebelling against his parents. I don't often use the word cringey but he was that.
REEEEEEE
People who are legitimately squatting and avoiding wage-labor aren't "lifestylists". They are legitimately seizing capital. It's frankly pretty bad ass.
The lifestylists are the ones that spend money they or someone else earned via wage-labor on tattoos and piercings and silly expensive books and art, giving hard won capital back to the Man.
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How is squatting doing nothing? It's not trivial AT ALL. And most squatters usually find a way to make productive use of that land/building, either by gardening or using it as a shop.
Also, if enough people can avoid wage-slavery by squatting, we starve the owners of capital of the labor they need to turn a profit and the whole system collapses.
Because it's effectively taking yourself out of the equation. I suppose doing nothing is better than contributing, but it's not going to change the status quo.
If such an unrealistic scenario ever came close to happening then squatting would be violently suppressed.
My admittedly subjective opinion is that in europe the spanish anarchists are by far the least lifestylist and the most about gettin shit done, moreso than the greeks from what I can tell from afar. Not only do they have a fully up and running meshnet they have taken that squatting shit to the next level and are basically confiscating seized real estate from the banks and handing it out to people in a very organized manner, or at least they were a few years ago. They are also by far the most connected to more "normal" parts of the population like f.e. neighborhood organizations, which provides them with a lot of benefits especially in terms of avoiding crackdowns
I think part of the reason they are/were able to operate with almost impunity is because 5-0 has much bigger fish to fry be that separatists or just straight up criminality, the police are not present in parts of barce and squatting was downright tolerated in places so long as you didnt scrawl up the facade with political slogans
I respect their outlook on some level and its always good to hold on to a bit of that "fuck the man" mentality but this bitch is not going to get solved by everyone "opting out" and starting urban gardensunless its the dank kinda garden knamsssayyyinnaayy420lmao
should I just become a leftcom?
Very nice
Also very nice
How is this unrealistic? Isn't this exactly what a general strike would entail but on a large scale?
Getting leftists to smoke instead of drink would actually be tremendously helpful, I think.
we need to build something new homie, you know it we all know it on some level, it just seems so fucking impossible from here right now
what we need is some syncretism, something with wide appeal that isnt fake, something that builds on all that has been said but also isnt afraid to cut away all the chaff that is endemic to just about every leftist movement. If I didnt think Dugin was a minion of chaos I would probably even go so far as to say we need a new political theory to rise from the ashes of the old ones
all this infighting is a fucking dangerous waste of time in my personal uninformed opinion, we should be talking about what we agree on not minute differences, I just fucking said this in another post but we need a Gestalt, something people can see in their minds eye and latch onto that can be translated into a plan of action
I have no idea how to begin with such a thing although personally I think removing a few bankers would be a great fucking start, The "real" IRA promised they would start hunting down bankers a few years ago whatever happened with that you lazy fuckin micks
anyhow im ranting here I would say dont become anything yet but shop around for sure
-Red Rosa
my…line of thinking was more you can fund a small country/revolution with horticulture but sure that works I guess, public health
The difference being the workers of a general strike are the pillars of the system deciding all at once that it doesn't want to uphold it anymore. Once it happens it's too late to stop it, whereas individuals slowly opting out of the system is a gradual process and aren't particularly relevant enough to care, but once enough individuals start opting out enough to become a problem then forces will be applied to prevent them from doing that.
The more people opt out the more leverage the workers who stay in the system have in wage negotiations, no? We'd be reducing the labor supply. And by people opting out and building communes up that provides a place for strikers to go a live indefinitely when that time comes.
That's true, but you keep assuming that if squatting was an actual effective tactic it would be allowed to remain. It's already illegal and sometimes suppressed, if it could actually be effective it'd be unheard of.
I feel like we should cross that bridge when we come to it. We don't seem to be putting much pressure on them at all as it is. The day they start rounding up squatters might be the day we start the Revolution proper. In the mean time these squats would serve as important centers of education and community.
the leftcom space to drink chai and discuss bread man is the internet. you want an organization, try to start it. there's plenty of ways to do it, even legal ones.
Nigga if enough people start doing this stuff "they will repress us" is no reason at all not to do it. In fact it's a good thing. They repress us? Let them come at us. We're in big numbers now. That's like, the revolution.
That sounds like most anarchist headquarters. Filthy and cliquey. Since they refuse to organize internally, new people are scared away, unless they're into shooting up heroin and not showering.
lel if they have red on their banners avoid at all costs
I have met some French anarchists a while ago, they looked like normal people, they have a national newspaper, a radio (which is broadcasted on Paris and on the Internet), they are part of the IAF (en.wikipedia.org
if they dont have red on their banners, avoid at all costs
wew
okay
most semi-intelligent/non-lifestylist leftists realize that almost all left wing organizations in America have at least some level FBI/Police presence and would rather not be put on a watch-list or even be charged as an accessory when one of the larpers goes a bit too far and firebombs a police car.
at least anarchy existed for a non-zero amount of time while the M-Ls only replaced the bourgies with a managerial class
Wasn't hakim bey a PEDO?
They're definitely superior to the older style MLs and Trots in most cases
Back to reddit.
lol i'd put money on it that this is exactly what happens, and when confronted they pretend by virtue of the anarchist label they cannot be authoritarian by definition, or some other spooky shit
How come "Anarchists" are so exclusionary and yet are completely infiltrated by law enforcement?
just like base and superstructure, one fact influences the other
I was in the same position you and decided to meet some anarchists where I lived. I met with a few, who were quite nice, but they didn't seem to know what they were talking about and were either drunk or high. Never saw them again.
It was a shame to see that in a country where anarchism had gained quite a lot of power in the past, some anarchists don't even know who Durruti is.