Hey guys - I have a pro-capitalist libtard "radical centrist" friend who's attacking my capitalist beliefs. He wants me to defend my beliefs on his terms. This might seem stupid but we've butted heads several times over this & I'm just tired of it. Anyway - here are his "points" -
"Ok fine The economy as a whole, structure wise, is perfectly healthy when reasonably regulated by the democraticish governmetn in power
you have to 1. prove that it's not, 2. prove that your plan fixes these flaws, 3. prove that your plan won't create more flaws than are fixed"
Oh fuck Meant my communist beliefs fam. This guy though - he's a neopagan witchcraft dude who thinks all religions are real as are psychic powers - really spooked dude - and he is very firmly pro-capitalism
Ayden Richardson
Really what I need is sources on how shit the current situation is.
Daniel Johnson
1) Assuming he means what I think he means, look at what happened in the 1970s. Perfect socdem economies the whole world round simply fell apart through forces beyond their control. Stuff has gotten worse for everyone but the very, very few richest. 8 people now own as much money as the bottom half of humanity. 2) Read "Calculation In Natura: From Neurath To Kantorovich" and "Eclipse And Reemergence Of The Communist Movement". There's a coherent set of problems to be fixed and immediate solutions to them. 3) Humanity's on the verge of dying out because of A) nuclear proliferation, B) drastic global warming raising sea levels, C) almost all arable soil being scheduled to disappear by 2060s at this rate IIRC, and D) massive possibilities of superbug epidemics killing off billions. It doesn't get much worse than this.
Since "perfectly healthy" is his subjective opinion, it can't be disproven.
Robert Hernandez
Please source me on this. I don't want to die just beginning my golden age.
Austin Thompson
Comrade come on this is easy. That's pure ideology. Corporations will end buying influence in the government until they directly impose presidents, senators, juries etc. Example any part of the world.
Thomas Hall
I've pointed this shit out to him - but he's a really special kind of guy. He doesn't see a problem with excess corporate control - he's not even a libertarian though he just believes in capitalism & the state very strongly. A "radical centrist" or some dumb shit.
Kayden Hall
Worst part is he's also an SJW somehow & once gave me a very grave lecture about how watching porn too much would make me dehumanize women & this naturally lead me to become a rapist - I swear.
I cracked into him once & found he literally believes idpol matters are worse than extreme poverty. He thinks that all women everywhere have it worse than all men & that social prejudices/judgements are worse and more disgusting than mass poverty - about which at one point he just said "too bad."
Justin Taylor
If you can't prove those points on your own then I suggest you read more theory. I don't mean it in a condescending way, but leftypol giving you arguments doesn't advance your theoretical basis in any meaningful way.
OP here - holy fuck this guy. He's been one of my closest friends for over a decade but…just look at this shit -
Him "You're listing benefits"
Him - "Still benefits Extreme poverty is unfortunate ofc But that's where regulations come in">>1663344
Michael Brooks
Is your friend slightly off in his behavior? Does he engage in delusions? Because you don't see such unfiltered ideology daily.
Landon Myers
Even the so called "golden age" of capitalism in the 50s and 60s was essentially an isolated and short lived bubble that was only tolerated by capitalists because of the strength of labour unions and the misery of the third world. So even that ethical capitalism, while showing promising results, was only viable in practice in a relatively small corner of the world for a historically insignificant period of time.
The main problem with social democracy is that it maintains the existence of the capitalist class, who have a vested interest in dismantling any pro-worker reforms. Furthermore it maintains their muh privileged position in production and excessive wealth, meaning that not only do these capitalists have an interest in destroying reform, but they have the capacity to do it.
Socialism on the other hand is susceptible, as are all systems, to corruption and subversion. However unlike under capitalism, there is no class under socialism that is required by its economic position to act in a subversive manner. The bureaucratic class is arguably the greatest threat to an established socialist society as they are best positioned to subvert it as they did in the USSR. However unlike the capitalist, they don't have a structurally ingrained interest in subversion. Subversives under socialism would arise out of individual ambition, as opposed to markets where subversion behaviour is a necessity to be successful in business. Furthermore decentralized and libertarian (AnSyn, communalism, leftcom, etc) models of socialism do not grant any power to any individual or small group that is comparable to that wielded by capitalists. This means an interest in subversion is not endemic to socialism, and any subversive elements are crippled in their efforts by the decentralization of power.
So socdem, while attractive to moderates, is really not sustainable without a level of vigilance that the average population has time and time again proven incapable of, since it maintains a class with both an endemic interest in subversion and an enhanced capacity to subvert. Socialism on the other hand, removes that class, leaving subversion to be an issue of individual greed or ambition, while at the same time making subversion much harder by decentralizing power.
Ayden Lee
I've been able to convince him at least that the amount of people in abject poverty in USA (around 15% according to census bureau) as well as the shrinking middle class/worsening conditions in terms of education/healthcare/debt is intolerable - but now he's blaming it on Republicans & thinks a raised minimum wage would fix everything.
But yes he is a very special kind of liberal. He also believes he has psychic powers. Let that sink in.
Asher Moore
you have to use emotion or some other spooked shit to influence people like that
Josiah Ward
He'd also get very in your face about "intolerance" if you question those beliefs ever. He's swallowed a really weird liberal idpol pill. Very concerned with SJW stuff but also "conservative economics." He'd consider himself "reasonable" though - and thinks my communism is "crazy." It's sad cuz I've been close with him for years.
Josiah Wilson
Your friend is probably delusional. I think it would be more worth the time to engage in politics with people who at least have a mild grasp of reality.
Not to mention that a wage rise is a simple temporary diversion. Costs will rise again inevitably. Shouldn't liberals at least know how capitalism works on the surface?
Blake Edwards
Might I also mention how this shit started - he was literally brewing a potion to make a girl fall in love with him, (wew) and he messaged me asking if I knew 100% it would work, what spell would I cast. I replied "I'd establish world communism," and that triggered the fuck out of him - especially because he takes the spell stuff super serious - and that's what made him want to "debate" me.
Angel Jackson
What. How did you become friends with someone like this?
Jace Taylor
Stop trying to convert him, start screenshotting or recording your chats with him so we can all laugh together.
Blake Gonzalez
~sigh~, MUGGLE SCUM.
Elijah Cruz
(BTW Im pretty sure he literally is a high functioning autist unironically)
Well I've known him since like 2003/2005 - I'm only 19 & we met in like first grade or something - we eventually went to the same high school as well. Havent seen him irl in months now but he's talked to me while at college. Its weird lol.
Nolan Ortiz
Considering everything you said in this thread, OP, just don't talk politics with this guy. If he considers fighting poverty to be less important than getting more women into positions of CEOs, then there's not much you can say or do to have his views shift or change. He would keep sucking corporate dick even after being shot by a private armed security force because he was too near a protest.
Owen Flores
Fun fact: Witches in Nigeria have a union, I believe it is called WIZTAN.
Ian Wright
Fun fact - apparently he thought Russia was still communist because he's told me before "if you like communism so much why don't you go live with Putin." Seriously. And he buys into all the liberal media stuff too btw.
Chase Gray
Whoops almost left sum personal info there comrades
Logan Green
Fucking hell
Hudson Wilson
jesus fucking christ. In 50 years, I'll either die because of: -hunger (soil degradation, drought, no clean water) -tribalism (radical idoplers, religious fanatics) -environment (shit weather catastrophes or shit air) -fighting a pointless war for porky/rulers (for profit or territory, probably in the middle east) -sickness (with super-resistant infections)
So basically 1200 all over again but with computers. Great.
