What is the lefty argument for more refugee migration? I'm trying to think like a lefty because I feel like I don't want my thoughts to become too echo-chambery by spending too much of my time on right-leaning sites like reddit and normiechan.
The concerns I have are:
Those are easily verifiable facts.
Not scientifically verifiable fact but is probably true.
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There are none because we don't want more migration.
some moralfaggotry that we should help people in need. watch zizek: youtube.com
Nobody here supports mass immigration. Your whole idea of 'leftism' is a manufactured image, just fucking lurk.
It's USA that should receive all the refugees. It's they who created Isis and bombed Iraq after all.
Different lefties have different ideas on refugees and not all of them think we should have more of them. You can probably even find pure-egoists suggesting we let them drown in the Mediterranean because human life having value is a spook and this way the bourgeoisie get less negotiating power by having less of a reserve army of labour.
There aren't too many to be honest. From a socialist, social democrat or marxist perspective I can't think of one except that we shouldn't pit workers against each other. Anarchists on the other hand don't think the state should tell people where they can live or not, and want to see discrimination based on birthplace completely abolished.
I think the most reasonable leftist position on mass migration should be trying to prevent it's causes as much as possible, no-one wants to flee war or natural disasters and no-one wants to live in poverty and misery.
We are all one species, baby. Borders are arbitrary lines made up by false hierarchies.
There a like four billion potential immigrants (refugees). Every human on earth would move to Europe if given the chance. We need STRONG borders to prevent that.
Arm the border guard and I'll bet my life that they will stop coming overnight
stop bombing and exploiting and I'll bet my life they'll stop coming overnight
They will just come during the day instead.
this is better talk: youtube.com
Top idealism
Nobody wants "more" immigration just for the sake of it. At most people are advocating to deal with what happens, nothing more. Stop reading Holla Forums.
THIS
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In islam if you rape a man in the ass that doesnt make you gay. But if you are being raped by a man you are gay even if you dont enjoy it.
They are a weird bunch.
Islam confirmed for continuing proud Roman traditions.
Pro: it advances the class struggle, it creates a spirit of internationalism among the working class and broad global-mindedness instead of narrow-minded provincialism. Migrants escaping oppression from their governments in the third world can help make the working class see the interconnection between oppression by imperialist capitalism at home and events happening abroad.
For a good pro-refugee position: ciml.250x.com
Con: The encouragement of mass migration isn't entirely an unintended consequence of imperialist proxy wars and disasters but actually an intended consequence designed to counteract what the European capitalists consider a "slack" labor market and to counteract demographic decline caused by stagnant wages, deindustrialization, and the promotion of a neomalthusian outlook at home. The US and Israel see Europe/Russia as a declining rival fated to play second fiddle in the struggle against a rising China and India or to break up. The ruling class in Western Europe considers the importation of a Wahhabized lumpen proletariat desirable as it will create considerable tension within the European proletariat where trade-unionism and leftism is still strong and they can be utilized as death squads or to instigate terrorist incidents that will provoke a neo-fascist crackdown when necessary. Mass migration has been an under appreciated weapon in the arsenal of states to change the undesirable policies of states that are rivals or adversaries during the 20th century.
This series is a good example of "anti-refugee" position within leftism:dissidentvoice.org
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Not all immigrants are illegal, though.
Give a gun to a border guard, he's still going to stamp your passport and let you through when the government actively approved your application to come here because their anti-immigration stance is purely rhetorical and despite campaigning partially on reducing numbers the incumbent party oversaw the highest net immigration figures in your nation's history.
Which is the real story here. Most of the time, porky wants mass immigration for various reasons
Can't see shit, captain.
MFW The Ottoman empire allied with the German empire in WW1. Got completely BTFO and then the allies redrew all their borders so they wouldn't keep invading people.
Now the Muslims invade Germany legally as punishment for letting them down.
Except that's just not true. The majority of people would rather live in the same place they always lived with the same people they always lived with.
It just so happens that economic or political realities often make this unfeasible.
I don't get it. People of different cultures and ethnicities are as likely to work together as they are to be hostile to one another. If this has to be a thing under capitalism, because let's face it the capitalists get their way one way or another, we should struggle to get people to see past petty differences and look to their common class interests.
Except they won't, because people like their homes and don't want to leave.
Frontex is already armed with non-lethal weapons and constant coast guard patrols, all legal passages are pretty much closed. I don't think you realize the extent the EU is going to close it's external borders.
I was taking you seriously there for a bit but I now realize you're just here to shout your propaganda
It depends on the region.
But you can just get in a boat and float 1 mille of the Libyan coastline until a navy boat 'rescues' you and takes you to the EU.
To be fair that's because those places are really shit. That's the "economic and political realities" I was talking about, were it not for the fact that Europe is infinitely richer, more liberal and more stable than their countries of origin they would rather stay.
Of course this is not the case and isn't likely to change in our lifetime. But my point is that Europe isn't a magic place that everyone wants to move to just because it's Europe. It's that there's real material reasons for them wanting to move that aren't pure European exceptionalism.
How is it that Muhammad got that little bit of Oman but none of the land in between?
Holla Forums says this a lot, that 'people naturally prefer their own kind' etc etc, until it comes to moving to Europe, which is apparently a mystical, universal urge brown people feel regardless of circumstances
I'm going to assume either a boat, or nobody lived there.
It's basically trackless desert where nomadic tribes lived.
But you can fuck off and take this shit tier 4chan thread with you. I gave you the few arguments the left has, now fuck off.
Im guessing its due to boats.
In those days a coastline was like a railroad. So you could hold a territory if it was joined to your main territory by coastline.
I was just trying to give you guys numbers that had a basis in fact.
Surveys from 6 years ago tell us there were about 700 million Africans wanting to go to Europe. I guess its more like 800 million now.
The whys and wherefores are a separate matter. But I dont think there is enough resources on the planet for everyone in Africa to live the same standard of life as people in Europe.
Fair enough.
I didnt make the thread but I do appreciate the information.
You arent even able to bring nuance into your "easily verifiable facts" and also lump all of Europe together. Are you american?
Why not?
I mean, Westerners are absurdly wasteful. There aren't really even enough resources for us to keep living like we do.
I'm fucking stoked though, good luck with continued neoliberal data-fetishism when the fastest method of communication is the sailboat!
Because theres only 700 million europeans yet we use up thousands of times more resources per person than Africa.
Look at the problems caused by millions of people in China suddenly being able to afford to eat meat.
"Westerners" aren't that wasteful. The extreme lions share of the waste comes from a very small minority of people internationally (mostly from the west) that use more resources than anyone else to produce things that no one even uses. The inefficiency of this isn't because western lifestyles are unrealistic, it's because capitalism is.
We kinda are…
I mean ive got a garden and I just grow grass on it not vegetables.
Socialism would either entail radical change to western lifestyles (like gutting consumerist waste and putting marketers to the wall when they create demand instead of just publicise responses to extant demand.) or lead us down the same path.
That said, I don't think we've got to get all ascetic monk. It's just a question of getting Americans to realize taking the bus really isn't that awful and that happy meals are shit.
Yeah, and a tiny minority of our population control those resources and try to encourage absurd consumption.
If we didn't have a tiny class of parasites that control the planet's resources like cartels and use more energy (not renewable I may add) in a day that any person will use in their lifetime that sabotage any efforts to rectify this we could all easily live comfortable lives.
I agree. Maybe I jumped the gun and assumed "everyone in Africa can't live like we do in Europe" meant "We can't all live to developed comfortable standards".
To be fair there's already enough vegetables to feed the entire planet. Our grossly inefficient system is the actual problem.
If someone told you this outside of Holla Forums you would call them a feminazi
Even the average person in Europe is living a lifestyle that is impossible to replicate around the world.
For instance we use 25% of the worlds energy but only constitute 10% of the worlds population.
That extra energy is not consumed by rich people its consumed by millions of europeans having cars and air conditioning / heating in our homes.
They could be a feminazi and still be correct in this instance.
A stopped clock is right twice per day.
This.
The thing is the lions share of our energy is used to heat homes and power cars. It's used in industrial production for more things than can humanly be consumed.
Europe isn't just a place where people live. Lots of production happens here as well and that's where most of the energy goes.
Likewise if we used renewable sources we could use as much energy as we like.
Except they aren't dangerous because they are men, but because of the social changes that effect men that were brought about first by capitalism's expansion destroying the traditional social path for men, then it's contraction destroying what was left.
Its used in industrial production for…. buildings and cars.
If your talking about industrial production for tacky consumer goods like Iphones thats all done in China.
this is shit.