Traditional gender roles

nah I want freedom dawg (wage slavery ain't it)

really, user, no housewife has ever been happy? BS

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3634473/The-job-makes-happiest-Housewife-Survey-finds-stay-home-mothers-satisfied-profession.html

(communism is a society where work and life are not separate realms and I don't want to deprive anyone of life)

The way people livetogether is subordinated to the way production is organized.
In medieval agrarians communities, the family wasn't a farm with one guy his wife and their kids, but several generations coexisting within the same building, and heavy ties with the whole near communities and extended family. Also women worked also in the field.
The model you see as traditional is the result of XIX rural exod, peasants leaving theirland to join the ranks of proletariat, i.e abandoning farming for wage labor.
Nowadays, one wage is more often than not not enough to sustain a home, so both parents have to work.
Not to mention the education system, taking kids away from their for large period of times so they can be formed and become employable workers.

It's useless to cling to one conception of the family. For its form will follow economic conditions, and more impotantly, economic relationships.

Hm, yes, indeed… Please excuse me, I will need some time alone to think about this in depth. My neurons are on fire right now.

I don't care what "gender roles" my neighbors want to adhere to, and neither should you.

Yes, those women would fit into the "privileged lazy fucks" category. Of course not being a wage slave and actually being able to see your kids makes you happier than the alternative. Being a housewife is either a non-job, or a shitty job. Now since it's predominately upper-middle class women who are stay at home moms, it's a non-job. They have two kids who are shipped off to school once they're 6 and who they only have to deal with in the afternoons, evenings, and weekends. Cooking dinner takes an hour everyday and cleaning the house a few hours a week.

yeah but if all of society believes that then it will make it super hard to find someone to marry that still believes that

they dont have to, sure some housewives are lazy, some aren't. Maybe she can spend her time working out and becoming super hot - you dont know

Not necessarily literally doing nothing, but not actually doing anything productive like a real job. Again, they're either muh privileged fucks or overworked. It's a shitty position regardless of the circumstances.

If everyone doesn't care about how their neighbors live, you won't find anyone who eould personally perfer the same arrangement as you do? Please elaborate.

are you 14?

late 20s

Well, i guess we just have to agree to disagree, i think there can be a balance

if women working stays the norm and we live in a culture where housewives are looked down upon, its that much more statistically difficult for a man to meet a woman that would want to do that

Irish Marxist James Connolly believed in monogamous marriage and that a socialist mode of production would 'perfect' it.

marxists.org/archive/connolly/1904/condel/conart.htm

"I expressed my belief in monogamic marriage, and because I said, as I still hold, that the tendency of civilisation is towards its perfection and completion, instead of towards its destruction."

Chances are you don't really care about your neighbours, full stop

I think having someone at home to take care of the house and cook is extremely convenient, and I don't even have to look up that having more time with at least one of their parents is good for kids. That has nothing to do with gender though.

I doubt it

Nothing
Just that people shouldn't be forced to be in them

Just let people be who they want to be
But under Capitalism, Freedom is limited

this, plus the post about how the nuclear family wasn't just a natural thing that always was, pretty much sum up what I'd say in response to OP tbh.

guess what, capitalism fucked us over, now both have to work
this is typical of capitalism, the workforce is nearly doubled and it only leads to more exploitation

only COMMUNISM can bring us the real traditional family back

Nothing wrong with them if everyone involved wants that.

The problem arises when Susan wants to be a scientist and her dad is a nuckle dragging alt right faggot and wants to pair her off with Dr Stick Up His Ass instead

I dont like them and dont want to be forced into them, just because of muh tradisjun.

Gen x'ers were hyper-liberal hippies, its not a good standard to compare them to.

Kill yourself.

Or she can work a few days in the week so I don't suffer clinical depressed due to overwork and so I am also able to see my own children?

surprise, surprise, then we don't live in a culture where people don't care about these things. And anyway, the opposite in your case would be that women are looked down upon when they work, which is hardly better.

They're not traditional, they're an invention of capitalism

This

So before Capitalism men got pregnant just as often as womyn?

I wish my grandparents were capitalists so my family would be less shit then.

No, no, no…the bitch works, i will be the househusband.
That deal is much better for women. let them work and put up with retard colleagues and bosses.

I have no problem with them, but I just think people should be however they want. If a girl wants to be a housewife who spends all their time caring for their children then great, and if they want to not do that and do more boyish things then they can do those too.

traditional gender roles are a meme made up in the 1800s, and have no weight outside of capitalism

You are too stupid to bother arguing with

...

It's not just the case of one wage not being enough to sustain a home. Things like divorce, widowing, the husband suffering an accident that makes he unable to work, etc, are things to be considered too. A woman cannot simply afford the muh privilege of just sitting around doing nothing and being 100% dependent on her husband instead of developing her career when there's so many shit that could happen.

actually you are

what a fucking tard

We're not tumblr, you moron.

The brute historical fact is that people used to live in extended families before the nuclear family became very popular in the '40s and '50s.

Acknowledging a fact makes us SJWs in your mind? You do realize that such a way of thinking is very similar to them, right? Just replace "SJW" with "fascist". It's not horseshoe, it's that you both believe in idpol.

…and yet you propose everyone mindlessly fuck and shit out rootless kids. Tumblr believes in a form of Marxism but you're too much of a close minded mongoloid to realize this.

Kids raised by an extended family are not "rootless" you moron. Rootlessness is capitalist phenomenon anyways. During the feudal era it was fairly rare.

Gender is a spook. There are only physical sexes, end there is some physical and brain difference between the two. Either way, people should be allowed to do what is in their rational self interest.

Yeah but most socialists don't advocate for extended families, they advocate for some autistic-as-fuck "socialist orphanage" to raise children, and just use the extended family to bash conservatives advocating for the nuclear family

Oh, do tell me what the Tumblr Marxist tradition is.

Which leftist ideology would that be?

That's probably just trans activists. Trannies usually aren't real leftists. They are just projecting their own envy and hatred of happy families onto Communism. It's important to ignore most of what they say about post-capitalist society.

Often I wonder if trannies are just autistic people who decided they were woman-kin instead of wolf- or dragon-kin.

"What will happen with children in a socialist society" has been raised directly and indirectly many times on this board, and the overwhelming response has been some variant of socialist orphanages, not "why not a return to extended families?"

Most of whom I doubt are tranny activists so much as autistic Westerners that loathe their extended family they only see at Christmas

Tell me what leftist ideology promotes "socialist orphanages".

Well is there any actual Leftist ideology that explicitly lays out how children would be raised in a socialist society, instead of resorting with some lazy hand-waving that "the community will raise them, I guess, just got to make sure that parental discrimination recreates all that inequality we thought died with capitalism"

So I guess I can concede the argument to you, only in that most Leftist ideologies don't really put much effort into envisioning the nuts and bolts stuff like what will happen to the children beyond lazy "it takes a village, but really we need socialism to find out how socialism would actually do it" handwaving

nothing, other than guys who take it too seriously and women who are crippled by it mentally. I hate women who are mentally retarded, but pretty and "caring" and get away with never thinking for themselves. I also despise men who try to think for their wife and children, I don't mind paternalistic behavior but demeaning your wife by literally dominating her mind and subconscious is debased.
I had heard it was more Gen Z and the younger Millenials who are skewing this way, I've also heard there are polls and studies which contradict this claim. It seems like its unreliable, not good evidence.
I think this more has to do with success in getting lots of hours which correlates with being a more fit male specimen and having a healthier wife. Its again not really convincing evidence, an argument would have sufficed instead of citing murky "empirical evidence"
Parts of second wave feminism were probably a mistake, but there is something wrong with the 1950's family. There's something eerie about the stagnant, perfectly smooth and hierarchical nuclear family. It feels like its militaristic or designed by a higher intelligence, by the State, to serve some utilitarian agenda. I don't appreciate it aesthetically. I think we can take lessons from libertine Sexual Revolution culture and from the Tradfag cultures. Monogamy and long-term relationships between men and women are definitely the basis for a coherent social identity for communities, but we shouldn't stipulate how the power in those relationships should be arranged. For instance in Tradfag households, the men have license to beat their wives, dogs and kids. They are allowed to silence their wives, they're allowed to take money from her at will (in a selfish, hoarding way as opposed to sharing family wealth with your partner). There's a whole litany of fucked up scenarios which occur frequently in the classical patriarchal nuclear family household. I don't think this is a good model for the future.
Yes, but women often went to college and were highly literate and had a lot more freedom socially than women in America and Europe. It wasn't Victorian or American rural 19th Century family values and certainly not 1950's values.
Its a woman's choice to live in the society she wants, its her choice to be with who she wants to be with and its her choice to allocate resources how she sees fit. Those are all things women's lib got right, I don't think you're doing a good job of just attacking abortion which it seems you want to do, but are avoiding because you know you would get BTFO'd.
I think a lot of women might still work though, women worked in the fields under Feudalism and in many cultures gathering was just as strenuous as hunting. Women in Africa walk miles everyday for water, carry heavy loads on their backs for hours at a time. I don't think Europeans who have extremely high standards of living post-industrial revolution even understand what life is like for most of the rest of the world. Tradfags ask for things that never existed. I wouldn't mind having women working alongside men, the issue is that they work in office buildings and in front of computers. They're working dangerous, miserable or boring jobs and they are not fairly treated or compensated nor are they even voluntarily working THOSE particular jobs.

I agree that traditional families w/man and woman and then 1-4 kids are what society needs to be healthy. But they don't have to be structured in an autocratic, hostile manner which negatively effects the mental health of the children and women.

I'm gonna guess it's because non-working women have more free-time and are more able to cook healthy food for their families, whereas women who work long hours have less time to cook for their families, relying more on prepackaged, factory food and fast food. It's got nothing to do with the traditional, 50s nuclear family structure being inherently healthier, but more that women have been taught to be cooks and men haven't, so they cook healthy when they have the time and when they don't, their husbands busy husbands don't pick up the slack.

I'm not gonna bother with the rest.

Gender, like race, is an inherently harmful social construct and shouldn't be supported or maintained.

Not really. Gender dysphoria is psychologically observable, "kins" are just children roleplaying.

everyone should be free to do whatever the fuck they want with themselves and with other consenting adults.
/thread

trashcan of ideology

A household in which one spouse stays home with the children, as opposed to both parents(or the sole parent) going to work daily, is able to put a much larger amount of time and effort into the raising of that household's children. That's a readily apparent fact and the only resistance to acknowledging it comes from the fact that there are so many children of single mothers who don't want to admit that their upbringing was deficient in some manner(after all they love their Mommas) The only reason that there might be any benefit to the mother staying home is because that very parental arrangement is the most conventional one, and thus both parents(and perhaps more significantly, the grandparents) are statistically more likely to be satisfied with it.

So one parent staying home with the kids while the other goes out to work eight hours or more is better, but a household in which both parents work around 2-4 hours and spend the rest of their time raising the kids is the superior household, and if you're here and can't see why that is, you are fucking SPOOKED, son.

didnt read any of the links OP gave

this

...

...

That shit is 100 years old at most.

lol no
they believe in freedom of property, not freedom in general

funny how feminists claim to oppose "traditional gender roles" yet won't go near any man who doesn't have a job or the desired income level

i'll oppose "gender roles" when women start playing breadwinner

more proof that the mod team is compromised by liberal idpolers