Why do so many Northern Italians seem to hate Southern Italians? It seems like right-wing Northerners hate Southerners as much as they hate extra-European immigrants. How come?
Anti-Southern Sentiment in Northern Italy
John Price
Charles Adams
Because the north is industrialised and therefore richer than the south, and the government transfers money to the agrarian south.
Hudson Kelly
I would talk about the Sicilians but I'm afraid to.
Joshua Gray
Is the influence of the Mafia as big a thing as it used to be 50 years ago?
Austin Ortiz
Don't Northern Italians have a saying that goes something like "Africa begins south of Rome" or some shit?
Owen Martin
Because back then the southerners were the immigrants. They flooded en masse to the north between the 50s and the 80s because the south was (and honestly kinda still is) a shithole. They were the reserve army of labor of that time. Racist feelings ensue.
That said I'm from the south and came here with my parents when I was a little kid and I can safely say that I never ever suffered from racism even once. That's partly because I live in an area with very little north-south racism, and because it waned overtime. Lega Nord is even having rallies and speeches in the south nowadays (even tho almost nobody likes them there). Talk about what mass immigration can do, huh.
If you want to know about why the south is a shithole, I'm not really qualified. Gramsci examined the question (it was an old problem even at his time, going about since Risorgimento) and even he couldn't imagine how bad it could get in the future. I'm sure you can find some essays about it.
Basically the south wasn't industrialized and remained an agrarian society until the end of WW2. Large criminal organizations were taking the state's place in administering "justice" and regulating conflicts within the population (this is a very ancient system in human history: in Southern Italy it survived until the 20th century and arguably is still alive to some extent). This is pretty much how the mafia was born. During the First Repubblica, many politicians have cut deals with such characters to ensure that their power could be exerted on the South without risking their life, which essentially created a nepotistic political system. It carries on to this very day, last year or the year before that it has been found out that Rome's state franchise system was basically in the hands of mobsters and it was a huge scandal.
But the prime reason I think this whole system existed is because it pretty much creates the conditions for you country to be able to export easily. What happened is the north had a high GDP and the south had a very low one, less employed people etc. That means inflation tended to not go very high, which makes it favorable for foreign buyers to acquire stuff from us.
Now of course with the euro that whole system goes straight to hell, but you can see the same pattern with mitteleuropean countries and southern european countries.
sorry for rambling
Brandon Edwards
to an extent you could say it's bigger. the mafia was an enemy of the state back then, nowadays it really isn't, even though every now and then they'll have some heart to heart. it's really not an easy topic to condense and i'm not very well versed either, but there's a lot of fucked up shit.
well sort of but the only people who say it unironically are KKK level retarded. as i said before, even Lega Nord doesn't push this rhetoric anymore - now the big bad guys are the africans and middle easterns.
Luke Stewart
What does everyone here think of the Venice independence movement? Is it autistic larping? Is it racism? What's the goal and what would result?
Xavier Howard
And how. Pic related is a confiscated by the police months ago. Allegedly this was built by "secessionists", who were all arrested. There was like 20 of them and that's it. 20 guys, a bulldozer with steel plates and a bunch of edgy comments on Fedbook.
totes, that's probably italy's most racist region. they drank this kool aid that the south is dragging them down.
Their idea of independence is that they want to keep their taxes to their region instead of sending them to Rome, local administration instead of statal should decide what Veneto should do. That and sperging about the national anthem or some shit. It's really hardly a movement, just some real life memelords.
honestly when you talk about separatists the Sudtirol guys have more of a case going for them, and i still can't see them going to Austria anytime soon. Doesn't look like Austria even wants them. But Veneto? That's just retarded.
Andrew Gomez
That's not even mentioning Venice itself is literally sinking as we speak, can't have your mercantile sea people republic if your trade hub sinks
Adrian Anderson
It's not a problem only for Venice, in Florence happened to me sometimes to see groups of this autistic idiots marching with the flag of the old grand duchy of Tuscany.
(Pic related)
Caleb Edwards
I didn't realize there were that many independentist movements in Italy. Looks like it's actually worse than France.
Hudson Bell
If anywhere in the west is going to Balkanize, it's Italy
Logan Morales
are you guys forgetting about spain? I know of 4 regional independence movements, 2 of them with serious political power
Chase Bailey
The cause of this kind of movements is the general hate and mistrust that the majority of the people have for the institutions and the central government. If only there were, like few decades ago, a strong communist party or left alternative to the actual establishment problably this kind of right populism wouldn't have reason to exist.
Nolan Powell
That shit goes back millennia.
It looks like Killdozer. It's… beautiful.
Wyatt Rodriguez
Uh, are you sure? I was under the impression that the main divide between Northern and Southern Italy was industrialization. Besides, "Italy" proper didn't even exist as a political entity until the late 19th century.
Gavin Jenkins
France is the same way.
Josiah Jenkins
Oh yeah, ever since the emperors all but abandoned Rome to live in what would become Milan there has been an antagonism. Add to that the way that Naples stayed rather poor while Florence, Venice, and Genoa were enjoying relative affluence during the Reniassance as well as the general animosity of the city-states before the unification.
Camden Bell
Marv Heemeyer was fucking awesome.
Asher Jackson
Fucking chocolatines!
Aiden Hughes
It's actually much more recent than that, WW2 had Italy descend into a de facto civil war, between German-occupied North and Allied controlled South.
Alexander Mitchell
That's actually incorrect, the war wasn't between north and south but between allies (and italian antifascist group included the italian's army) and the nazi germany. In the north there, it's true, the republic of salò, the only remaining of mussolini's regime but there were also groups of partisans that fought for the liberation of the country from nazifascism.
The historical difference between the 2 parts of italy are far more ancient. You can actually see their begins in the division of the peninsula during the VI century when italy was for the first time politically divided since centuries (gothic people in the north, byzantine empire in the suouth). But anyway made a good point, the industrialization and the differences that afflict italy now are principally economicals.
Levi Martin
you sure it wasn't historical reenactment brah?
they're dime a dozen and none of them counts for anything. the very best they can do is get some region specific law or force local administration to have street signals in italian an in dialect, kina like sudtirol has signals in italian and in german. they really are irrelevant.
look, you don't get much more animosity here than in any town vs town feud everywhere else. it's just that we really have some material problems that actually spur division.
btw occitan is a wonderful language
Gavin Butler
It wasn't. It was a protest, dunno against what. There were also flags of the lega nord. You can't imagine how retarded is this people, Trump is a nobel prize compared to Salvini.
Julian Russell
Salvini is very smart. His userbase is retarded and he knows it. He plays them like a fiddle everytime he speaks.
But yeah in context I believe it. You see a lot of weird shit at Lega's rallies.
Justin Morris
Yeah in Italy we have a great tradition of opportunist politicians and demagouge: Berlusconi, Bossi, Salvini, Renzi, Grillo etc. We used to have a great left, but now the disaggregation of the old communist party has left only some stupid liberal party who doesn't even claim to be socialist. People just doesn't vote anymore.
Justin Diaz
Speaking of Grillo, is he still a thing? Is his M5S movement still around?
Blake Hall
Xavier Watson
The M5S is one the most influent party right now, even the mayor of Rome is a "grillina". The fact is that most of the people, who just doesn't know or doesn't give a shit about politics, vote for this idiots. They haven't any kind of program or ideal, they just act irriverently against the former institution and get the support from the most uneducated citizens.
Joseph Edwards
Tyler Perry
sounds like the uk
Kayden Myers
how is the anarchist movement in Venice? I visited about a year ago and there seemed to be a visible anarchist presence, especially in defense of refugees.
Owen Bennett
Brandon Nelson
Don't know a thing about it, but the Veneto region is probably one of the most reactionary in all of Italy, so the comrades there do all they can to be heard.
Nathaniel Martinez
Lega Nord are a bunch of LARPERs wishing they were white
Sebastian Peterson
Northerners are essentially German rape babies