Offer plausible scenarios in which socialists take over the United States of America

building a mass libertarian municipalist grassroots movement and associated local community-based infrastructure (i.e. dual power).

Looking at the state of US culture…

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it's got to be a groundswell of support that results in a coup by the military tbh. one general goes rogue and the public supports him, typical civil war stuff - the other generals fall in line domino style.

no way in hell a guerrilla style uprising would take over DC but there is a "civil war" scenario in which a socialist regime takes control of the country that I could see, it would just require a really weird swing in public opinion in order to actually happen.

in fact that's the only way I see socialism taking over the USA in its current form without some sort of Balkanization happening. it seems much more likely to me that we'll eventually see some sort of secessionary movement gain traction in the most blue or red states, and socialism forms in the newly created state ( or federalized zone, or what have you.)

don't count on the USSA ever happening.

The best chance for a movement died in 1969

A mass political revolution at the local level on the assumption of playing the long political game, electing and enacting socialist policies at the school, city and county level before spring boarding into state legislators, governorships, and then finally the national offices. The problem I seem to see is less activity in that respect, and is even part of the GOP long-term game plan that got them to this point where they control the vast majority of the country top to bottom. Toppling the power-structure that is and replacing the two parties isn't really achieved at immediately competing on the national stage, but setting down a foundation and putting shit into practice and moving the consciousness in the direction you want.

Of course it's far less dramatic than picking up a gun or baseball bat and beating some alt-right marcher about the head and neck.

Some fucking Afghans in caves managed to Outlast the US military. Fighting against an insurgency is really fucking hard, because the destructive force used against your enemy is used as propaganda to recruit more of the enemy.

If there were ever an urban insurgency, the conventional military would be next to useless.

user, I…

They just bomb the whole city
NATO has been doing that for years

start a massive chain email that says "read Dad Kapital or this will visit you in ur sleep tonight" and have a spookyface.jpg attached

youre forgetting about nuclear war user

It always amazes me to realize he was just 21 years old. He could have accomplished so much. Death to the FBI.

i cant think of any because i still cant wrap my head around the leftism's incentive to do anything
leftism offers you this great spook of entitlement, you are a magical pretty princess that automatically deserves everything for some magical reasons, oh and you also have infinite rights

zero effort required, zero personal responsibility, zero discipline, zero character required because all values are relative anyway, and everything else is relative too
the system can take the whole blame, capitalists are entirely guilty of everything, you just sit on your ass pretty princess and throw a tantrum if you dont get one of the things you are entitled to
even if there is any humanity left in you, and you start feeling like a complete fucking loser complainer, remember:
your can always feel valuable just by identifying with an even rarer and more obscure ism this week, and that will make everything fine and put the food on your table, just call yourself something even more 'intellectual', 'philosophical', and pretentious

well i just dont understand any of it, obviously nothing is ever going to happen when everyone gets a participation trophy, when everyone is equal, when there is no personal risk and there is no personal incentive
no wonder leftists are so highly concentrated everywhere where your stuff doesnt have to compete with something else to stay there

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environmental collapse forces military to take over production of necessities with the capitalist economy in extreme crisis
would be socialism without knowing it, but very possible

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sure showed me
no for real basically the whole right wing politics and philosophy and everything is built upon pretty basic and simple incentives: survival isnt guaranteed so you just gotta do your best not to get Darwin'd
there, whole everything about everything in right wing, explained in a simple few lines of text

now what the fuck is leftism all about?
the way I see it, it's all about supreme entitlement and pretty much nothing else
again I invite you to refute me instead of uninformative

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Because you are retarded and drowning in ideology. You are a bootlicker through and through you will fight yo defend your masters from any criticism.

You are paid less than the value you provide so one person or a small group of people can profit. The motivating factor is that to be able to take part of a socialist society you MUST work, the only difference is a large labor force will be a strength and not something you must compete against. All BASIC needs will be guaranteed to those who work (food, housing, medical care and decent public transit) Denial of these tjings are part of the ineffciencies of production for profit. But yeah give me the tired human nature bullshit as if capitalism is natural and has been with us for the 200000+ years our species have walked the Earth. And spare me your meme definition of socialism as "it iz wen de gubermand doez stuf"

End wage labor, end capital accumulation and produce for the needs of and betterment of mankind instead of strictly for profit.

Gentrification has less affluent urbanites pannicked. They know what hell awaits them in the suburbs. They also know that they cannot afford the automobiles that they need to get to work in the city. Rising rent literally costs them their livelihood.

Desperate renters in certain buildings begin forming unions. The renters unions start joining together as syndicates. A striking apartment building gets forcefully cleared out by SWAT. Other unions start stockpiling weapons. Standoffs with cops in densely-packed downtown real estate turn into urban fighting. A state of emergency is declared by the governor during which the revolt is forcefully put down.

Radicalized former renters fill the prisons. Others are thrust into poverty in the suburbs. Neighborhoods become unsafe for cops, and the chickenshits start refusing to go there. The suburban poor, who are still doing all the actual work in the city, with radicals among their numbers, organize in groups structured similarly to the syndicates.

A general strike ensues, and the city shuts down. Citizens and porkies lose confidence in the state and local governments. Radicals start winning local elections. The syndicates get organized into paramilitary groups, and the cops start splitting. The city is now occupied by a rebel army.

The radicals halt all evictions, and landlords order their government stooges to attempt to retake the city. Urban warfare being bloody, destructive, and time consuming, the National Guard attempts a siege to isolate the city until it surrenders. The suburbs have their own paramilitary groups. With the bulk of the Guard occupied with the seige, the suburban rebels raid the prison where the political prisoners are being held.

Meanwhile, people in other cities are watching this happen. Renters and workers begin organizing themselves. Martial law is declared nation-wide. Federal soldiers get deployed on U.S. soil, but the U.S. is gigantic. The federal government attpempts to institute a draft to swell the ranks of the infantry to a number that can control the country. It backfires. The poor kids who get drafted find that it is much easier to disappear in the large pockets of lawlessness, and the rebels have a place for them to go.

The National Guards are not universally reliable. Guard soldiers can leave at will, and commanding officers find that a lot of their men would be happy to leave this nightmare assignment along with them. Without reliable Guard support, the federal military is forced to hold their own bases, which they barely have the manpower for.

Because the federal military devours resourses at a ridiculous rate, even holding the bases becomes impossible. Desertion runs rampant. The federal military splinters with units functioning on their own. Porky throws everything he has at hiring mercenaries. Then the real civil war begins.

And why the heck do I even need the workers anymore when I really dont tho? I am just a man. I just want a service. I dont care about what other people think or feel or need or whatever. I just want a service or good. That's what I am all about.

What if I can get a better service for a lower price from some private contractor?
What if 'the system' isnt actually all that bad? For example, what if the wealth gap correlates with.. intelligence gap? What if pilots union and doctors union are the best unions, like they fucking are, because those professions generally have more intelligent people in it? What if various engineers do not even need any unions, because they get 6 digits starting and basically cant even spend all their cash?

Again, I just want an apple. I dont care what you think is efficient or fair or whatever. If your commune or whatever can get me an apple, I am getting an apple from you. If you give me some fucking excuse, I am turning to the other guy, and I dont give a shit about yours or his ideology.

Leftists are so full of excuses for everything, and nothing is more loser than excuses. Just give me a fucking example, man. Give me a functional fucking thing, there is already an ocean of excusers out there peddling their bullshit, I dont care, I am just a simple guy, I just want a thing that works.
And I found what we have today (first world capitalism) extremely rewarding for the effort I put in. I was born to a drunkard father and a mother that has no higher education and works some retarded jobs, constantly getting let go and so on. I graduated school on my own, got scholarships for chemistry, graduated, and now I am 25 and doing perfectly fine….
Dont know what you complainers are constantly complaining about tho. I just wish that I could run over fucking protesters when they roadblock me when I go to work. And I also want fucking homeless shitters to leave me alone, I have my own problems they should fuck off, I am not God, I have no superpowers, I was never asked what I want to happen to me, things were simply happening and I was simply doing what I thought would work and so here I am now..

Leftism is about realizing you're a slave who's being robbed and controlled yet you're actually the one who holds all the power. It's about realizing they need us, but we don't need them. Capitalism is the real ideology of entitlement, since it is completely based upon the belief that certain people deserve the labor of others because the state says they "own" something.

The majority doesn't need to be entitled to something for them to realize a better world is possible and they have the power to create it.

He actually believes inthe meritocracy!

But politics isnt exactly an exact science. It's not like right wing or the leftists give you an axiomatic proof, and a margin of error, and have 100% reliability rate.
It's all just politics. You can always be wrong.

What if you are really not needed tho? What if you do not actually have any power? What if you simply never googled German and Japanese fully automated car manufacturing, and Russian self repairing satellites, and self driving cars, and American zero workers required prefabricated houses?

The way I see it, you are either born rich enough not to give a shit about any of this, or you make yourself valuable enough trough relevant education, because all the people who are really needed are tech literate people that basically run our whole economy, and the military, and fortune 500, and the private sector, and basically everything.

I just see no reason to believe that 'the majority' holds any real power anymore. Especially when they can evaporate the whole majority in a milisecond.
First came feudals, than the merchants, but the next are techies I think. Not the masses.

Beats complaining..

I don't always write porn, but when I do it's about the revolution.

No, pretending that obvious bullshit is real is not better than complaining.

All things invented and created by actual workers and built with actual labor, and workers had to work for the world to reach the point to where those things could be built.
They're important, fundamental aspects of the system, but a scientist will need the engineer, the engineer will need the foundry workers, the foundry workers will need the miners, and so on. Until complete automation comes along, things will stay like this.
The majority of people are still employed for a reason, that means they are needed and they do hold power.
Unless the technies actually control the means of production, then they won't hold any significant power.

How is it not a spook, to think that the world has to be fair?
I mean at least you have your life and I have mine. I found working hard to be actually rewarding in my case. Maybe complaining is more rewarding in your case, I dont know, I just really doubt it.
All I know is that I am happy enough, that I am getting plenty of stuff, and that I have never met a happy complainer in my whole life.

Yeah but these 'techies' we both mentioned, are we on the same page here that they are like 2% of the population? By 'techies' I didnt mean a white collar worker. Or a manual laborer that uses tools.

I really meant just masters and doctors of science and engineering, who work mainly for military institutes or already own their corporation and make 6 digits in the private sector.
Why the fuck do any of those guys need you, or me? Dont you think you are a little bit overly entitled, to think that in a world where >10 men built an atom bomb, and where one semi literate farmer with some mechanized tools can feed 1000000 people, that somehow it all depends on Y O U of all people? That the world would stop spinning if you disappeared? Or ten more like you? Or a hundred more like you? Or a billion more like you?

What if we are all living on surplus value of Tesla, and that guy who cured polio, and just a few more of those? And that they dont really need us? And that they also have the capacity to wipe us out?

The problem is that these renters are the people who serve the yuppie's their coffee, pack their groceries, and clean their bathrooms. The state obviously has an incentive to ensure that these people have an affordable place to stay, no matter how terrible it is, and that they are in a commutable distance. They actually might start investing in public infrastructure out of necessity. Of course, such a shift in consciousness will only happen when everything is literally falling apart around them.

What is more likely is that some sort of private public initiative emerges. This initiative promotes "car loans" for the poor, which allows them to commute. Naturally, these car loans are either inefficiently distributed, or are predatory, which results in the poor depending on the state that is actively squeezing them.

No investments into public transport are made, no attempt is made to stop gentrification, no centralization away from suburbs to cities, etc etc etc. If anything, the work week of the average prole might increase due to the shitty commute taking longer. Sad state of affairs.

This is a blockage preventing the transition from Phase 1 of your prediction to Phase 2. Possible revolutionary consciousness arising from shit living conditions are instead redirected towards the workers, cloaked in the language of self reliance. The public private initiative has just enough government involvement to win over vast swathes of liberals while independence signalling just enough to conservatives. How might this issue be addressed?

We might categorize probable strategies as follows.
1) Strategies that focus on preventing this bill being passed in favor of rent control or generating unionization.

2) Strategies that focus on dealing with the aftermath.

Strategy one would include protests, agitation and making the landlords life hell in general. One thing I would suggest are deliberately shutting down important transport infrastructure. For example, the BART system in California spans the entire Bay Area, and is important for transporting tech workers to and from Silicon Valley. The thing is though that Bart has 2 to 4 tracks. So 4 people can possibly shut down the entire system, and thereby seriously disrupt the entire economy of the Valley, just by standing in front of the trains and refusing to move. The yuppies being yuppies will be doubly agitated by this, since they have a close affinity for technology (practically viewing it as an extension of themselves). To disrupt technology is akin to savagely dismembering them.

Really, one can apply this to later revolutionary phases, since the modern world has grown exponentially less resilient with the advance of technology. I am consistently surprised that there haven't been more terrorist attacks and that the few that have happened haven't exploited this weakness.

Demonization of the gentrificators will of course have to be used, in order to counter the class cuck attitude of most Americans.

As we know, the yuppies are dependent on the proles to feed and clothe them. If the proles are all kicked out of the city, then they should stop giving their labor to the city. Counter economics, if you will. Take the welfare bux and somehow invest it in the community. Maybe a few cash earners can be fed by the welfare users in a community pool of sorts. The trouble is generating cash flow in the first place, since the yuppies do not typically visit the suburbs for their lunch. I am tired tonight, so I am going to leave it like this. Your thoughts?

Also, anyone who has any sources on what is already being done to resist gentrification should share them here.

Working hard for you and your exploiter. You'd probably be a bit more happier if you had more control over your job, were paid significantly more, didn't have to worry about getting laid off, etc.

No one works alone, the scientists who actually worked on the atomic bomb needed thousands of workers to mine and construct the materials, millions of soldiers to fight in a war so they could work in peace, millions of civilians working away, building roads, farming crops, paying taxes. The scientist needs to research, the engineer needs to construct, the miner needs to mine, the soldiers need to fight, the civilians need to maintain the society. Everyone is important and needed. Some groups are more replaceable than others, but no job is actually replaceable, and the people who work them or can work them are needed. The ones not needed are the people who do nothing else except own property, and reap the benefits of everyone else's labor because of that.
I'm not integral, or a dozen of me, a hundred, or a million, but my class is, the workers are. I'm not very needed or powerful alone, but together with the rest of my class I am.
We live on the foundations built by billions of people and their labor, the Teslas are essentially influential, but they just a slightly more sizable area of the foundation which could exist if the rest of it didn't also.
Until complete automation they do. But ultimately, this is assuming Capitalism and Capitalists function by logic and reason, and they don't, it and they function by very insane, inefficient rules. Capitalism only cares about accumulating as much capital as possible, not with efficiency or a well-functioning society. If the Capitalists actually wanted to, they could make the workers obsolete and extinct if they wanted to, but they don't, they only want to continue playing the insane game they're been playing for the past 200 years.

So even according to your own reasoning, the point of it all if you will is not to actually self identify with 'the workers' (whatever that even is in reality), but to achieve total self sufficiency.

Ok, what if I found, say, 100 more like minded individuals? And what if we were all hyper intelligent and resourceful, and what if we could achieve total self sufficiency for ourselves, and also secure a turbo hyper luxurious existence, and dedicate the rest of our lives into just securing our position as much as we could, so much that the rest of the planet combined couldnt touch us?
Again, we already have self driving cars. And workerless factories. And smart weapons. And cluster munitions, missiles and machineguns that can end the dirty masses if all they have is their.. torches and pitchforks.

So the point of it all isnt to identify with 'the workers'. There's a trillion different kinds of worker, and 99% of all of those are no longer even essential, or capable of overthrowing our current regime.
The point of politics is literally to amass as much resources for yourself as you can, or come as close to self sufficiency and comfort as you possibly can, and being in the middle of faceless rabble entitles you to pretty much nothing.

No, it has nothing to do with achieving self-sufficiency, my point is that it doesn't exist. No matter who they are, for anyone to do anything, they depend on the workers of the past and present. That is the power and significance of the workers.
What of it? You're essentially be creating a hippy commune. You probably would have a significantly more difficult time living like that then in a freed society.
You talk like we've already reached full automation. Some things are automated, and more are as time goes by, but in the present the proletariat is still very much needed.
I'm not identifying with anyone. I recognize what class I belong to and I know what I have to do to achieve freedom.
It's not the kind that matters, but the fact that they all belong to the same class of the proletariat, the class that lives off selling their labor to the people who live off their property. It's not just the power that people have as workers doing their job, but the power they have as being part of the majority. A permanent general strike done by the workers who maintain society would overthrow the regime, but so would the masses arming themselves.
Maybe within Capitalist politics, but my goal and probably goal of many people here isn't to amass as many resources as they can, but to live free, happy lives where we have control over our own life, and that cannot be achieved under Capitalism.
We're no longer talking about entitlements, besides, you're part of that rabble whether you like it or not. Even if you become a wealthy technocrat, you're still a pawn of the 1%, and ultimately a pawn of Capitalism.

school the unwashed peasant masses on dialectics by interacting with them on a grassroots level and arming them once they have enough revolutionary fervor

How about we infiltrate the media, the educational system and the government, to subvert the traditional Christian male hetero white culture, and destabilize the foundation of the USA from within? Because as every marxist knows, culture is the foundation of a society, without which it can't survive. I know a few guys with Jewish background, willing to support us for unrelated reasons.

What do you thnik about my original and creative idea?

You get the idea. I know most here hate this because they are blood thirsty autists but it's most realistic. If most means of production is worker or collective owned I say that's good enough. You dont have to put a bullet through the brain of every kid with a lemonade stand.

try again lad, the base influences culture, which is part of the superstructure. Not the other way around.

go home, kid

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Nah, probably

Then maybe the civil war goes through

More like obviously. I mean, who would take
seriously

US loses air supremacy because of the shitty planes produced under its ridiculously corrupt procurement process.

Military begins losing wars to shit tier countries because it's stretched to thin and China smells blood in the water.

China just go ahead and takes over Asia, and agitates anti us imperialism in Latin America to weaken US military response and their economy.

US can't defend own boarders and southwest taken back by Mexico, which is acting as a proxy.

Mexico become s socialist because they've always been fucked over by capitalism, there was never 1950s style golden era for them

this sounds like the worst red dawn spin off of all time

assassination programme would be a start. kill as many high-profile politicians as possible, especially the president and his immediate cronies

make them afraid to even show their faces in public

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Did this ever happened?

Killing politicians without killing the porkies they serve is self defeating. You've got to strike the root, because all the bourgeois need in a politician is someone that does what they're told, so smashing the puppet doesn't stop the person puking the strings.

kill both

Well yeah

Fuck yeah boi

gain majority in a state (especially if it is an economically important state) have a secession vote. if your newly independent state is successful the usa will collapse like the eu with more and more states demanding independence from the american superstate.

someone, the US government pisses off BOTH the conservative gun totting right, and the left at the same time

we came damn near close to one when Nixon's shenanigans where unveiled

america lol

I don't know, but it starts with attacking religion.

Did you reply to the wrong post? That has absolutely nothing to do with the post you responded to.

The only way to do that is to create ghettos in the suburbs–project housing that is difficult and dangerous to police. It's not like Singapore where those ghettos are in another country either. They have to actually be administered by the cities they are attached to. They would become hotbeds for subversive activity which militarized police would have to raid. That situation would be a powder keg. In fact, the military is already training to fight in those environments.

theintercept.com/2016/10/13/pentagon-video-warns-of-unavoidable-dystopian-future-for-worlds-biggest-cities/

How would Nexico turn socialist if it is already acting as a capitalist (Chinese) proxy?

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Its hopeless within the next two or three generations. Most the the military, police, and armed populace would join the far-right or local separatist movements over helping commies and big gubbement. The left in america is almost non-existent and by the time things get bad enough that it can grow to significant size the far right will be much strong and the ruling class will put the propaganda machine to work. If your a socialist in america the best advice I can give is learn a foreign language or two and get ready to bail when things get to dangerous. No point in staying in an unwinnable battle.

i cant think of any because i still cant wrap my head around the liberalism's incentive to do anything

liberalism offers you this great spook of entitlement, you are a magical pretty princess that automatically deserves everything for some magical reasons, oh and you also have infinite rights

zero effort required, zero personal responsibility, zero discipline, zero character required because all values are relative anyway, and everything else is relative too

the system can take the whole blame, feudal lords are entirely guilty of everything, you just sit on your ass pretty princess and throw a tantrum if you dont get one of the things you are entitled to

even if there is any humanity left in you, and you start feeling like a complete fucking loser complainer, remember:

your can always feel valuable just by identifying with an even rarer and more obscure ism this week, and that will make everything fine and put the food on your table, just call yourself something even more 'intellectual', 'philosophical', and pretentious

well i just dont understand any of it, obviously nothing is ever going to happen when everyone gets a participation trophy, when everyone is equal, when there is no personal risk and there is no personal incentive

no wonder liberals are so highly concentrated everywhere where your stuff doesnt have to compete with something else to stay there

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