Isn't rightism sometimes seem like obviously the way to go?

Not quite true. While the Roman Empire was much more advanced, the Celts for instance had trade and roads (which I hope you can imagine isn't that fucking simple to build since it requires considerable investment, planning and control). They had a much less centralized system (a few small cities instead of a single, but amazing, city calling the shots), which means they got their asses handed to them, but still. The Romans did portray the Celts as uncivilized when it came time for conquest, but that wasn't entirely accurate, their culture was inferior to Rome's but they weren't a bunch of retards. Greece as you mention was pretty advanced, and Rome, not being stupid, adopted much of it.

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The truth is never obvious, OP.

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You mean what the capitalists have been doing this entire time? If workers actually had control over the means of production and their state, this wouldn't be a problem, there would be no need to import cheap labor.

And what has the Left's reaction been? "Oh you only oppose immigration because you're a racist, yes I WILL side with the landlords, businessmen, etc that seem to be in love with immigration over a racist"

Liberals aren't leftists friendo.

And the "real Left's" position has been what, a warmed-over re-tread of "borders are a capitalist conspiracy designed to pit the proletariat against each other, because if there's one thing capitalists hate it's more consumers, more labour competition, and religious/ethnic infighting"?

Even Bernie Sanders called open borders "a Koch Brothers proposal"

Ignore the anarkiddies. Borders will be dissolved slowly once we establish a socialist state that can liberate neighboring capitalist countries.

Those are christian and not European values per say. Every other religious group within Europe held slaves with exception of Christians(for the most part) since it rose form religion of slaves and the poor to the dominant position.

And what kind of Celts are you talking about? Because the Celts that lived in nowdays Germany had nothing to do with the Celts that lived in Iberia

No it's to dissolve borders when creating a socialist territory, which will be done country by country.

Mass immigration isn't going to help.

I think it's an interesting idea. I wonder to what extent your position in society affects what is immediately intuitive to you. I mean as someone who faces virtually no (>inb4 idpol, fuck off these movements are generally pretty identity-heavy so I think it's more relevant here) systemic oppression like racism/sexism/etc. I have no clue what it's like to have to deal with these sorts of things. Like even when I try to read about it and understand it, I often times can't put myself in other peoples' shoes like that. I think a lot of what far right groups did on the internet is cater to the assumptions and mental limitations of anti-social white dudes like me, honestly. They have a very easy time appealing to these sorts of groups because it's like there's no communication and compromise between different demographic groups going on here. There's absolutely no consideration for "how will women/racial minorities/LGBT/etc." feel about this. They just unapologetically tell you: "everything you've ever wanted you were right to want. everything you've ever thought, you were right in thinking"

A couple examples of my own:
I was a former MRA or at least I was very sympathetic to MRA types because I am hardcore autistic and had an absolutely awful tendency toward "oneitis" (or "being friendzoned" they're both pretty stupid terms, but they get at the situations I put myself in pretty well). After hearing all my progressive friends at school talking about how "friendzone don't real just be honest about your intentions, but also don't be too outright because that's sexist" and some of my girl friends complaining about the various ways men would try to approach them it was honestly refreshing to hear some scumbag on the internet tell you that women are manipulative bitches and when they won't go out with you it's because they're using you somehow. It was nice to have people who were more extreme than me egging me on. Telling me "you deserve more" even when I disagreed with them.

I literally had the exact same experience as this. The problem is the radical left equivalent doesn't have the same effect. Even if you take it to the extreme "kill the rich" type shit it just doesn't have the same quality as a good old "brown people go back to your country"

This is what is wrong with rightwingers. We have a capitalist society right now. What makes them think that going further right or full nazi is going to magically grant you a gf?

Because rightism is the status quo, its what we've been taught to believe, even full fascism is only right bourgeoisie propaganda taken to its logical conclusion. It has the appeal to feelz.

The issue is that you were (are?) a naive realist.
It's an affliction of believing that you have direct, unfettered access to reality through your senses, unmolested by ideology and laziness, and that all of your gut reactions are True, because you're a rational, free-thinking skeptic who looks at the evidence and come to your own conclusions.

It's hard to convince someone that an easy, comfortable opinion or feeling is possibly _perfectly_ incorrect, while something complex and painful might be true, and that a lot will have to change in order to satisfy this new information. Even with glaring inconsistencies staring them in the face, they just don't even blink.
Who gets America?
Will MOTHER EVROPA like taking ~218,028,481+ European-descended Americans and Canadians back?
Should I go to Germany or England?

It's something everyone has had to overcome.
Pretty much everyone has done this countless times to get here, as liberalism, conservatism, and far-right ideology really are just so much easier to fall into than the heavily theory-oriented, squabbling and pecking hens of the far left.
I'm just not sure what we could really do to try and make it easier to convince people. Maybe do that cultural Marxism thing the right has been accusing us of. That might work.

Adopting any of the supposedly superficial positions of the right would compromise any revolutionary action, but some of their strategies might be worth investing in, and we've already got some of that out of the way with semi-popular leftist personalities coming out on youtube and the like.

Protectionist shits like Bernie are against open borders too.
I'd say most of us are fine with the discussion until the loonies start deviating away from economic arguments into conspiracies about and their Bolshevik sub-council for centrally-planned cuckoldry-based genocide.
You will however activate every liberal within a mile radius of you regardless.

It's a real problem. I wish it were just liberals taking this line, but a lot of genuine leftists fall for it too. They mistake universalism for frictionlessness, lacking a better world. They seem unable to comprehend the myriad practical and material challenges that would come with free movement of people from the third world to the first - or they just wave those away with references to some abstract historical guilt. Something to the tune if "well if millions of newcomers strain the social services and invite an ethnonationalist backlash, the west will have had it coming 'cuz colonialism."

The userbase of Holla Forums is way better than most in this regard, though. As evidenced by replies of others supra.

Not an argument. Universalism and liberty are as European as Nazism and Communism.

How about neither? turd position mustard race.

turd position is still capitalism and is doomed to be victim of the same pitfalls.
Hitler had no choice but to loot the neighbooring countries to appease german capital, thus going at war against the whole world and burning his own country to the ground as a result.

We need to end this stupid fucking meme.

this is a good question and i don't know the answer

i think it might come down to 'gut feeling;' when you 'feel' something is 'right,' it's very hard to tell yourself that this feeling is wrong, or might be wrong; to deny instinct. i've always felt that my own leftism has basically been a deliberate effort to suppress what i really feel, what i instinctively 'feel' true; thus life would be easier if i gave that effort up and just lived by my gut. basically, i feel being a leftist is much harder than being a conservative/establishmentarian, and most people simply aren't willing to make the effort or "take the hard road"

brilliant

Well i don't see a lot of right wing thinkers claiming that common sense must be questionned that's for sure.

No, not at all. My personality has always been trying to figure out the underlying reason for things and so superficial anecdotes don't really change my worldview.

I always thought you must be a special kind of retarded if you say "all x do/are y" based on either corrolation or anecdotes.

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Since when Prussian Socialism = Capitalism?

Right-wing thought always tries to justify and naturalize current inequalities. It claims to be elitist, but is actually very intellectually lazy.

Said no great person ever

Ever since Hitler stood up for private property and literally backstabbed the class conscious part of the party.

Proof Hitler was a Capitalist

scribd.com/doc/311227564/Nazi-Privatisation
Privatisation

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933
ctrl f socialist, Hitler gathered support from capitalists

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany#cite_note-15
Ctrl f union, Hitler banned unions and strikes
ctrl f insist on, Hitler was a capitalist!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Strasser
Ctrl f business, Hitler was in bed with corporations

realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/hitlers-finances-and-the-myth-of-nazi-anti-usury-activism/

realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/hitlers-finances-schacht-in-his-own-words/

Right-wing ideas have never made sense to me.

actually they always sound pants on head retarded to me, to the point that when they eventually say something not clinically mental i'm actually surprised.

also ur waifu a shit

They seem like common sense because they're tailored to seem logical to people that think linearly and don't have the capacity to see beyond the most basic example of cause and effect.

Oswald Spengler openly supported private property. He even opposed nationalization of industry.

scientificamerican.com/article/calling-truce-political-wars/

TL;DR conservatives/rights might be genetically predispositioned to be spooked and have a huge fear complex

Holla Forums spams cuck porn because they're assessing threats.

First mistake, fam.

It doesn't, it's just a product of modern day times. The workers of a century ago were very conscious of their precarious conditions, and hadn't been seduced by the spectacle(simply because Capitalism hadn't fully consumed all social relations as a re-direct towards itself). I think the bigger issue comes from the problem that modern liberalism by itself has titled itself as the antithesis to the Reactionary Right, so it makes sense that people's discontent of the system wouldn't be directed towards substantially altering the system, but only addressing mere alterations of its symptoms.

Related question, isn't zizek's definition of ideology contain something about spontaneous thoughts? Like ideology is how we spontaneously experience the world? Anyone recall?

Zizek is a petit bourgeoise white male from the european first world, whose social circle consists of equally muh privileged ivory tower intellectuals and has no business speaking about socialism or workers struggles at all

It's time to go back
>>>/reddit/

Ideology are mental gymnastics to protect capitalism and or liberal democracy by any means possible.

For example. If we only get rid of this group capitalism will improve by it self or the free market will solve everything.

Say it ain't so

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You misunderstand, I'm not a SJW, I'm actually from a third world country and the way Holla Forums sucks off this dude because they can relate to him while shitting on Unruhe and third world movements in general is disgusting.

That's what SJW's deny the superiority of aryan race, they're such untermensch that they can't image what it feels like to be so superior.

uh.. we support Rojava and EZLN as much as Maduro and Evo.

Jason is just dumb.

No we don't you socdem piece of trash, stop pretending you can speak in the name of everyone on Holla Forums.

muh welfare