Is Lucifer /ourguy/?

kek

satanicleft.weebly.com/why-socialism-is-satanic.html This is an interesting read, ironically this is what helped get me into Leftism.

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For real though, I ask myself this question too sometimes.

Lucifer ain't SHIT.

Need an update on this.

Yeah, but don't be loud about it or satannazi will come here to call us reptilian agents undermining Atlanteans with jewish magic.

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Lucifer is the morning star.

Literally Venus, in the sky, visible at key points in the year that tell you when it's about to get cold and you should probably get your shit together or your family starves.

If the Left is to get it's shit together, y'all'd best learn that Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, that Love is the law, love under will.

The Bible, which is a very interesting and here and there very profound book when considered as one of the oldest surviving manifestations of human wisdom and fancy, expresses this truth very naively in its myth of original sin. Jehovah, who of all the good gods adored by men was certainly the most jealous, the most vain, the most ferocious, the most unjust, the most bloodthirsty, the most despotic, and the most hostile to human dignity and liberty — Jehovah had just created Adam and Eve, to satisfy we know not what caprice; no doubt to while away his time, which must weigh heavy on his hands in his eternal egoistic solitude, or that he might have some new slaves. He generously placed at their disposal the whole earth, with all its fruits and animals, and set but a single limit to this complete enjoyment. He expressly forbade them from touching the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He wished, therefore, that man, destitute of all understanding of himself, should remain an eternal beast, ever on all-fours before the eternal God, his creator and his master. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge. - Bakunin

i am thinking in creating a religion and win money from it, i want to be a neet the rest of my life about lucifer, using him as a symbol, not as a "god" to pray
this religion will be about spread knowledge and learn

Reminder: Disobeying God's will is logically impossible, Satanism is a farce of rebellion not unlike modern leftism in the face of capitalist hegemony

It makes sense. Have you read Paradise Lost, op?

Depends on your theory of god.

Nice Bakunin quote.

It's not "satanic" in the normal sense of the word because (almost) none of us believe in satan (or god for that matter) nor do we agree with the general principles of "satan" or "satanism". But in terms of the "myth of the fall" and the "temptation of adam" there are allegorical comparisons.

Disobeying god's will is only logically impossible if you accept god as telling the truth about himself.

If you adhere to something resembling Christianity, how can it be violated? For instance, if someone commits a murder, surely we can conceive of a universe in which this murder was not committed. Assuming that the latter universe is preferable to God, why not realize that one instead? The other option is that we already live in the "best" universe by God's metric, which is disappointing if true.

Sure, if you relax various assumptions about God that make the entire issue interesting.

First /ourguy/ thread that makes sense in weeks. Good job.

lol shut up mao.

Lucifer and Jesus are both our guys. It's the hick followers that Jesus amassed before his death that are not our guys.

Well what did he do wrong?
Come the fuck on. And the whole propaganda about hell being a place of suffering for everyone who displeases god, despite being Lucifer's reign? Like WTF? Why would Lucifer punish god's enemies?
Fucking YHWH shilling is what this is.

Lucifer does not care about promoting things in humanity's interest and only wants to see us suffer. Falling for his temptations only leads to condemnation and suffering. Bible-illiterate retards selectively interpreting the Genesis story to remold him into some sort of awesome freedom fighter does not change this basic fact.

Although I guess Marx is aligned with Lucifer anyways given this dumb rant of his:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1837-pre/verse/verse11.htm

Ultimately those core assumptions about god are basically contradicted by the bible itself. And I'm not talking omnibenevolence, I'm talking omnipotence and omniscience: first in the garden of eden after they've eaten the tree of knowledge and later at babel, god expresses fear at the potential of humanity. First if they further eat the from the tree of eternal life in addition to the tree of knowledge of good and evil "they will surely become like us."
Then at babel: "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them."

Neither of these are concerns of an omnipotent deity, what does an omnipotent deity care if nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them?

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you're late by a century

actually you're late by 20 centuries if one takes gnosticism into account

Settle down, John Calvin.

Paradise lost was intended as apologia for GOD. Lucifer-the-freedom-fighter was entirely accidental.

the omnipotence part isn't that important, the omniscience concept is what makes it interesting. Just imagine a big collection of universes, something like "the collection of logically possible universes". To me, it seems clear that fixing one of these and realizing it instantly destroys free will as it pertains to human affairs.

So it's fake because the fan fiction propaganda says so?

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I forgot to add that this scenario has some weird implications where you do, in fact, have free will, but in a weird way: theoretically, a free-willed person could logically contribute a number of logically possible universes, but God presumably selects one, which somehow puts "you" in the situation of having all your possible lives being prior to the universe actually existing. Maybe I'm not articulating this well, but it seems weird to me.

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You fucked it up.

I mean that depends on how you define free will. Unless people are literally dice machines that just pick an option at weighted random then you can still get a consistent stimulus producing a consistent response. Ergo, god just has to set up the original conditions of the universe such that they result in whatever he wants.

He doesn't talk omnisciently either. It's not "man WOULD do bad thing A or B if I don't prevent it." It's about what mankind COULD do.

You dumbfucks. Still arguing about whether or not a hypothetical omnipotent creator scenario is plausible, missing out on the wisdom that Prometheus brings whether there's a god or not.

Mother fuckers.

Look up mystery schools. Look up why all this shit is connected. Look up the underlying message of ascension to higher states of existence in literally every religious tradition.

Isn't it weird how every now and then, throughout all of known history, occasionally one human being will disappear for a while in search of some religious goal, then come back and become a fucking legend?

Does the gap between legendary figures seem to get smaller with each one, as though they are desperately trying to pass the torch on to others with instructions, usually to sit somewhere quiet and contemplate one's own nature?

Read a god damned book, fuck.

PROMETHEUS IS GONNA COMPLETE THE SYSTEM OF GERMAN IDEOLOGY

I don't really care about mystery shit, I just think the logic problem is interesting.

The books existed before Constantine genius.

In completely different forms unknown to us today, thanks to two millennia of bishops and scribes playing with biblical meanings and wording. Eusebius was probably the worst one.

so the jew's talmud is fake?

Was going to correct you and say it's German Idealism but then I realized how clever your joke was. Kek.

Doesn't it say something about this at the beginning of Alinsky''s book?

lol no

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muratorian_fragment

The Talmud and Tanakh have been altered over the years too. Prophetic fulfillment has been inserted and backdated, entire passages have been added and removed. It's not that they're "fake". That's just oversimplifying the problem. They've been manipulated to manipulate the gullible religious at large. Religion and exploitation of the fear of death and/or hell is the easiest way to manipulate the masses.

Neither of those articles indicate to me that the books of the Bible have not been significantly altered over a period of centuries. They aren't full manuscripts of the New Testament, meaning they aren't exactly useful in determining how different the modern version is.

DO YOU AT LAST SEE THE MEANING OF LEFTIST SATANISM???

Let alone the fact, he was sent to hell for daring to demand compansation for building the universe!

SATAN ORGANIZED THE FIRST STRIKE EVER!

HAIL SATAN!

I'm the same guy. The differences between Lucifer, Satan, and even "The Devil" depend on how many layers of esoteric you're willing to go by. There's at least 1-2 ways of looking at it, which are

1) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil
tl;dr Lucifer is a fallen angel, but is a separate entity to Satan, who is a spiritual entity/demon that tries man's faith in god, sometimes even outright confronting God with challenges on how strong man's faith is at a given point in time. The Devil is either Satan or yet another separate entity, only that "The Devil" is a personification/manifestation of evil as a whole/opposition to God

2) gnosticwarrior.com/lucifer-satan.html
gnosticwarrior.com/lucifer.html (Guy who writes these has a bit of a big ego)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_(morning_star)
tl;dr Lucifer is Jesus is Phosphorus is everybody

Just a little extra
gnostics.com/newdawn-1.html

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is, if you wanna look at it in a way:
LUCIFER
IS
NAZBOL

unholy fuck this is ingenious

I finally get to post this

youtube.com/watch?v=8bkO6LimH4k

The Bible, which is a very interesting and here and there very profound book when considered as one of the oldest surviving manifestations of human wisdom and fancy, expresses this truth very naively in its myth of original sin. Jehovah, who of all the good gods adored by men was certainly the most jealous, the most vain, the most ferocious, the most unjust, the most bloodthirsty, the most despotic, and the most hostile to human dignity and liberty - Jehovah had just created Adam and Eve, to satisfy we know not what caprice; no doubt to while away his time, which must weigh heavy on his hands in his eternal egoistic solitude, or that he might have some new slaves. He generously placed at their disposal the whole earth, with all its fruits and animals, and set but a single limit to this complete enjoyment. He expressly forbade them from touching the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He wished, therefore, that man, destitute of all understanding of himself, should remain an eternal beast, ever on all-fours before the eternal God, his creator and his master. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge.

We know what followed. The good God, whose foresight, which is one of the divine faculties, should have warned him of what would happen, flew into a terrible and ridiculous rage; he cursed Satan, man, and the world created by himself, striking himself so to speak in his own creation, as children do when they get angry; and, not content with smiting our ancestors themselves, he cursed them in all the generations to come, innocent of the crime committed by their forefathers. Our Catholic and Protestant theologians look upon that as very profound and very just, precisely because it is monstrously iniquitous and absurd. Then, remembering that he was not only a God of vengeance and wrath, but also a God of love, after having tormented the existence of a few milliards of poor human beings and condemned them to an eternal hell, he took pity on the rest, and, to save them and reconcile his eternal and divine love with his eternal and divine anger, always greedy for victims and blood, he sent into the world, as an expiatory victim, his only son, that he might be killed by men. That is called the mystery of the Redemption, the basis of all the Christian religions. Still, if the divine Savior had saved the human world! But no; in the paradise promised by Christ, as we know, such being the formal announcement, the elect will number very few. The rest, the immense majority of the generations present and to come, will burn eternally in hell. In the meantime, to console us, God, ever just, ever good, hands over the earth to the government of the Napoleon Thirds, of the William Firsts, of the Ferdinands of Austria, and of the Alexanders of all the Russias.

Such are the absurd tales that are told and the monstrous doctrines that are taught, in the full light of the nineteenth century, in all the public schools of Europe, at the express command of the government. They call this civilizing the people! Is it not plain that all these governments are systematic poisoners, interested stupefies of the masses?

I have wandered from my subject, because anger gets hold of me whenever I think of the base and criminal means which they employ to keep the nations in perpetual slavery, undoubtedly that they may be the better able to fleece them. Of what consequence are the crimes of all the Tropmanns in the world compared with this crime of treason against humanity committed daily, in broad day, over the whole surface of the civilized world, by those who dare to call themselves the guardians and the fathers of the people? I return to the myth of original sin.

God admitted that Satan was right; he recognized that the devil did not deceive Adam and Eve in promising them knowledge and liberty as a reward for the act of disobedience which he bad induced them to commit; for, immediately they had eaten of the forbidden fruit, God himself said (see Bible): "Behold, man is become as of the Gods, knowing both good and evil; prevent him, therefore, from eating of the fruit of eternal life, lest he become immortal like Ourselves.

Yeah, probably

He's our guy but you're doing it wrong.

The 'knowledge' that he offers is of good and evil (i.e. duality) not of enlightenment. There's no reason to leave the garden of eden, it already is enlightenment.

Your analysis of what's good and what's evil (adam and eve have to be SLAVES!! with no FREE WILL!!) is exactly what the metaphor exists to illustrate against.

Who the fuck are you to cast judgment on what's correct? From whence your knowledge of what's good? From whence your own contemplating mind? Go beyond the mind.

This is all ML's fatal flaw. Stop rationalizing everything. Rational thought is by no means the highest thought. All thought exists together in the complex web of existence that we are creating on many levels.

Learn to write with your non-dominant hand for one month, then reconsider this topic. Embrace not-knowing. Say to yourself, "I don't know" even when you think you know, and allow yourself to get defeated in an argument. Then watch how you grow and learn from that experience.

He's our guy because of rebellion and shit, not because he's 100% gradient lens flare nazbol or whatever.

He doesn't , Hell is a prison for him as much as for everyone else.

Where did it say Lucifer. Version I read said serpent. Read more like a creation myth for snakes, what with the whole :Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”:

Or maybe it could all be a grand metaphor for something not retarded, I dunno.

After all, Bakunin said that Satan was a cool guy
ctrl+f "satan"
marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/godstate/ch01.htm

/ourguy/?

Nope, Jesus is /ourguy/
He wanted the rich to give everything they had, his followers owned everything in common (back in the days when christians were actually christians) while Lucifer loves greed.

Why not both? Satanic Christianism.

Greed is a natural component of human nature. Lucifer is a scientific socialist, Jesus is a utopian socialist.

Hell is earth. When you were born, you were sentenced to Hell. Lucifer brings knowledge of ascension beyond ordinary human existence. Hence him being a rebellious figure later on. He is rebellion from all that is less.

Lucifer is Jesus, the Buddha, Mohammed, Lao Tsu, Pythagoras, Tesla, Socrates, etc.

The light bringer. Whatever brings you to seek and attain enlightenment, to find your purpose, to dig deep and figure yourself out, then customize your own fucking mind so that it runs perfectly and brings you the life you really want, a life so well lived that even your death will feel like a final achievement.

Lucifer is not a scary red guy in a volcanoscape poking dipshits with a pitchfork forever. That's dumb.

Lucifer isn't god either. He doesn't give you super powers. In fact, he's an it. Specifically, a symbol. A fucking archetype.

Are you fucking getting this?

No?

Fuckin… You can make yourself smarter. Bolder. Deeper. More emotionally intelligent. You can change your own programming. Know how your brain's basically a computer? Human kind hasn't had the means to study the hardware until very recently. The software has been getting toyed with since people carved statues of gods and spirits. The human brain can't accept commands, scripts, and batches like a computer can. The programming language is symbolism.

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Good post, this is exactly the difference between the true left and the false (marxist) left. The purpose of marxism was to draw away the kind of empathetic and good people from true left to a false ideology inside a false dichotomy of capitalism - communism.

Jesus and Muhammad, not Marx and Engels.

You've been reading Dugin?

was Stalin a Lucifer too?

He is /ourguy/ and if you're not familiar with gnosticism here's a lengthy, scholarly introduction:
youtube.com/watch?v=pDyl1qrpj_Q

Basically the religions we have today are empty caricatures of the source philosophy or founding gnosis, reshaped and repurposed as a control system.

Lucifer and Satan are different masks and personas of the same being