Macron hacked

There's no smoking gun for any serious hacking. Knowing that the FSB has a very good hacking department, it's logical to conclude that they don't sit on their ass all day.

That just sounds like a way to stifle discussion without having to result in full on censorship.

Convictions need more than a motive, they need to place the defendant at the scene at the time of the crime.

I'm not even disbelieving that Russia is doing all of this, in fact I'd love it because Russia is a shit country, Putin a shit leader and Russians subhuman untersmech. But I want evidence before I assign blame.

Russia did it because it's still soviet union who is playng 32654725 dimensional sudoku

Like I said, there is no such thing as a smoking gun in these sorts of hackings. This requires inductive reasoning.

Russia is pretty clearly in political opposition to the EU. The next best thing to a friendly leader in a major country is a delegitimatized unfriendly one.

Possibly better, since a friendly leader can change their mind but a delegitimatized one STAYS delegitimatized.

...

So what if it was Russia? It's up to Macron to make sure he's squeaky clean.

A crime was committed (someone illegally accessed Marcon's email and made copies of his intellectual property), and inductive reasoning is not enough evidence to convict.

More to the point, even if we assume Russia's government is doing this, we need to have proof of it just so we can actually defend ourselves and preform a counterattack.

This isn't a court case, if intelligence agencies could only work on evidence that would result in a conviction, they'd be futile since the standards of courts don't translate into the workings of other fields.

Again, there is no such thing as proof in hackings like this. Neither is it necessary to have the identity of the hacker to defend against hacks.

And now you understand why democracy is a bourgeois sham.

Yes it is something more serious: warfare.

Then we're going to continue to be exposed to hacks no matter what happens, unless the Internet itself is shut down.

Nothing wrong with breaking the law if it stops or exposes a worse crime.
America has even made LOOKING at such data a criminal offence, even if someone else acquired it - basically making legal investigative journalism impossible.

I doubt it was an actual hacking. It's easy to fake.

Do you start a criminal investigation into all enemy combattants before shooting them?

It's not a "then", identity is irrelevant to security.

What do the french people do with an illegitimate president that helps Russia? Wasn't Hollande on a trajectory to be more open with Russia?

In order for targets to be acquired, you need to define the target and why it is a threat. Otherwise a friendly fire situation is likely.

No, because if we cannot ascertain evidence on who is committing these hacks, then we don't know how we are even being attacked or what is being exploited to hurt us. We're effectively blind. Similar tactics occurred on 9/11 when the American ATC could not figure out which planes were hijacked and which were not, this did not mean that all Russian looking planes were immediately shot at.

Exactly, no court proceedings and trial before jury.

You seem to know absolutely nothing about the subject. Let's say I hack Holla Forums, hotwheels detects the exploit I'm using and fixes it without ever being aware of my identity. Now let's say I hack Holla Forums in a way that is undetectable and loudly proclaim under my own name that I did it, this wouldn't help hotwheels in any way to detect the method I used.

except in one case hotwheels knows it's you, and can safely target you using his right wing death squads. In the first case he wouldn't know exactly who to blame, and would either waste ammunition attacking uninvolved parties or worse attack friendly forces

The Russians have openly demanded proofs. None provided even official US investigators said there is none but they keep wasting tax dollars that could be used to help people who need it on bourgeois battles.

IS THIS WHAT AMERICLAPS ACTUALLY BELIEVE?

YOUR COUNTRY NEVER HAD A REAL EVOLUTION EVER. GO BACK TO STUFFING YOUR BURGERHOLE, LARDBALL

No, it's what a minority beilive. The majority is afraid of Russia and will of course support more aggressive Internet content standards to fight fake news and libel, and they will absolutely give more powers to the NSA to fight against Russian fifth columnists, sympathizers and traitors.

And by the time they've realized their mistake, the FBI will be raiding their apartment because they posted a link to a Trump leak on facebook.

Seriously? That's some bullshit.

And then what? the definitive proof of russian meddling always fails to materialise. the narrative seems increasingly vague and all encompassing. the hardcore russia obsessives, hack journos and shady natsec people, just end up more convinced than ever liberal society is under attack from Ivan's all powerful red hackers. The solution of course, always involves giving more power to the security state. How could that ever backfire?

The liberal state is starting to destroy itself on an international level. This is a good thing. Like Monarchy before it, liberalism is slowly becoming a huge fucking joke and will become much easier to organize against.

It probably was the russians though (both now and the last time this happened). Of course, that's no excuse to further regulate the internet. Net neutrality has almost nothing to do with hacking. Besides, the west does the same thing (hacking and interfering in elections) they have no moral high ground here.

It was some neckbeard on 4chan

A brief timeline:

1999: China fails to liberalize with the Tiananmen Square Massacre, yet still enters the WTO and is given free trade by the western establishment.
2000: Russia fails to liberalize with the rise of Putin.
2006: Mexico fails to liberalize with the breakdown of PAN and the onset of a major narco gang conflict.
2010: First Greek bailout, about the point where Greece stops being liberal and becomes a borderline failed state underneath debt payments.
2011: Libya collapses as the Islamic State is founded. Over a million migrants per year enter Europe, spawning the biggest humanitarian crisis since ww2.
2015: Spanish parliament dissolved, unable to form a coalition. Spain stops being liberal as there is no legislature to represent the people. Bataclan attacks puts France into an ongoing state of emergency.
2016: Turkey fails to liberalize as Erdogan gets new powers following his coup, which led to "reforms" that will give him at least another eight years in office plus the death penalty. Trump elected as the American President and Net Neutrality perishes.

It's all coming unglued now, and the collapse is accelerating. Once the global economy crashes (either from China's housing bubble, America's tech bubble, or cash flow problems in Unicredit spreading throughout Europe) it'll be a slippery slope into a repeat of the 1930s (civil wars, coups, crackdowns, all sorts of crazy shit happening).

thought this was bullshit but just saw it on google. what the fuck is going on? this is CIA level shit imho. i am not buying it.

they just stole some emails, the fuck you on about.

btw i'm reading it's like thousands of emails, so we're gonna have to wait a few days before any source reports on what the emails say. not very timely considering they'll vote on sunday.

How many times can you say Russians did it before people start to get wise?

People will never ever get wise, until their specific hobby/website/thing is threatened.

This is what pisses me off so much: all the Democrats hammering on the Russia narrative don't seem to realize that Trump will greenlight whatever new powers they give the NSA, because when he himself gets leaked he will have a much greater ability to contain them. And when the Republicans assume total control in 2020, the Democrats are going to be kicking themselves very hard for not standing up for the Internet and leakers when it mattered.

This. The goal of the left should be to hasten the death of the center/center left consensus. Supporting reactionary parties where no true left wing organizations exist or are available is part of this strategy as well. RIght wing populism will help to exacerbate the contradictions of the liberal order while also inspiring hatred among the ever growing working class in the first world.

been hearing that since 1860

The post-WWII America-centric order is indeed collapsing. That's a good thing.

by any means, several different world orders have collapsed since 1860. The people who lived through the collapse of the USSR probably saw it as the end of the world, the end of a world at least.

Senator Dianne Fienstien (D-CA): "no evidence as of this time"

youtube.com/watch?v=dAxaalddaqI

Monarchism died in the 1910s Flanders, and Communism would rise as the defining issue of the twentieth century in the 1940s Poland. The world has only been at peace since 1991, which was only 26 years ago. The current world order built sense then has been on it's deathbed since the 2008 financial crisis, another one of that level will destroy it all.

I'd say post Cold War more than anything else. The things we take for granted today (namely free trade, the WTO, "human rights", hypercapitalism etc) all are borne out of the (supposed) end of history in 1991. That era is coming to a close, because it could not sustain itself.

Weren't there some pretty cataclysmic crises in the world of 1860? Think about it.

i'm just saying the alleged 'hacking' seems to be a wedge for saying the elections were a sham, etc.,,, … sounds reminiscent of hillary's whole 'russia stole the election from me' thing

i forgot to take off the sage from another post my bad fuck

Did capitalism die?

it's a possibility

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The guy was talking specifically about the collapse of the liberal (or to be more specific neoliberal) world order based on the Washington consensus. Not the collapse of capitalism.

No, but it's decaying. The patient hasn't yet realized their HIV has evolved into AIDS. It only takes one seasonal cold (a recession, which itself is not immediately debilitating) to kill them, the question is what will strike first.

Specifically: banks (and other financial institutions) have amassed too many debts and backed too many bad loans. In Europe they're stagnant, with a major profitability problem (which mainstream bankers and economists admit is a problem), in China they are crushed underneath toxic mortgages and in America all growth is pinned upon webservice industry growth. It's anyone's guess which will be the thing that falls first, and brings the rest down with it.

…uhm, sooo any interesting stuff in his mails?

But that would ruin the narrative of "le nationalist revolution"

What? NO! The goal should be to organize and set up structures that will be able to seize the opportunity when the crisis occurs. Hurdling ever faster towards collapse will not do us a lick of good when the only ones ready to pick up the pieces are fascists.

At the very least everyone should form a neighborhood nazbol gang.

Considering that Russia funds more anti-EU parties, especially on the far-right, it's really not that surprising.

It wasn't Russia, it was 4chan.

Trump will get leaked, probably by one of his own Holla Forumsfaggot worshippers who gets disillusioned. Liberals will eat it up until Trump shuts it all down.

Those structures already exist. Trump himself has caused leftist entryism into the GOP to be practically feasible, if it's sold under a nationalist spook. Even if he himself doesn't work out he's already legitimized an "America First" brand of politics which is itself inherent socialist. While other fascist regimes can be attacked head-on, America's will melt down from the inside even if it takes another decade or two. Because once Trump is out of the picture (in 2024), things will only slide further and further nationalist.

I don't doubt it, but that's what I'm saying: it's been decaying from 1860 or even before.

I keep hearing people talk about the leaks, but nothing about the actual content of the leaks. What the fuck is this all about?

It was just 30 gigs of granny porn. Weird, but nothing worth reporting.

All it was, was bullshit. Holla Forums & trumpcucks are just trying to make it seem serious.

It could be epic trolling by halfchan.
For added game, there could be fake documents amongst real ones.
We would then finish the transition to post truth world when absolutely nothing could be a reliable source anymore with such a precedent.

now that is spooky

Simulacrum

French have NO RIGHT to make fun of the USA ever again
Nobody ever came out over here telling people it's their duty as citizens not to read some fucking emails

Sauce? The period of reserve states that the campaign stops the day before the election so no one amongst candidates teams and supporters can make political statements on the mediacompletley obsolete concept with the democratization of means of communiation tbh but forbiding to read the damn mails, i'd like a source for that.

Oh, it's better than that, have you actually read the CIA's dossier about "Russian influence on the election"? It doesn't actually contain one single accusation about magically hacking voting machines over the cybertubes or whatever, know what it does accuse them of?

Running English-language politically motivated articles and videos in the obviously Russian government-owned RT, promoting these stories and articles by sympathetic American outlets that link them on social media.

In other words, the exact same entirely legal and open activity the US's own government-owned PBS & Voice of America outlets have always done.

These accusations are literally "disagreement is harassment"-tier feelz>reelz.