Thoughts?
Socialism and Identity Politics
Hunter Russell
Robert Rivera
LOL!
Connor Collins
I really hate how discussions about id pol never actually explain what id pol is, and its historical origins. Instead, people use "identity" to refer to any sort of social position whatsoever, often dishonestly so. But this isn't what id pol is, and what it is is a distinct phenomenon that emerged from the New Left in the 60s and 70s, which is characterised by its rejection of the universalism of the Old Left, early feminism, and the civil rights movement. Instead, this "identity politics" embraces the particularism of individual identity.
Universalism was one of the most important elements of the Old Left, and its an element of it that we need to recover. But to suggest that we do so through identity politics is absurd. It's like expecting everyone to come together in solidarity, when all they really care about is their own particularistic identity. Consider Bookchin:
youtube.com
Noah Hughes
This person sounds like a manic depressive having an episode.
Kayden Russell
(edited)
kek
Ryder Martinez
Adam Richardson
I was one of the two arguing with that person they are unhinged as fuck.
Xavier Flores
What was your side of the argument? Also, they seem like the exact kind of person who endlessly goes through life antagonizing, harassing, and attacking other people all the while always thinking they're the victim.
Evan Kelly
not really a fan of 'identity politics' as it exists in the north american context. And I'm from a middle class Mexican immigrant family. I feel it often amounts to condescending emotional manipulation and circle-jerking around an ironically quite americanised and commodified idea of 'authentic' culture. What really gets me is the contrast between the huge variety of self conceptions and cultural narratives to be found in Mexico, let alone the whole of latin america, and the monolithic bleakness of american 'identity politics'. imo, it asks one to assume a very specific identity defined exclusively in negative terms and in relation to liberal american culture: american bourgeoisie liberals get a sense of perverse satisfaction from guilt, like all calvinists do. But if I don't want to be defined by bourgeoise neuroses? The whole praxis of identity politics is an expression of neurotic codependency, I'm not really sure any of it is salvageable.
Jaxson Price
Black Panther Party, Brown Berets, The Civil Rights Movement = Identity politics
Holla Forums logic.
Charles Powell
The argument started because they said that Stalinism resulted from white cishet males and that minorities were naturally more left-wing therefore they should lead our movement. Another /leftpol/ user (I think that Jewish chick who made the video about maoist third worldism and posts about Torah inspired socialism) and I challenged both these assertions and she totally lost her shit. We didn't even troll her anything we just challenged her arguments and she went ballistic.
This is definitely pretty spot on. She also tried to argue she was more leftist because she had prostituted herself and was on welfare, I found this pretty funny considering I work a blue collar job.
Nice strawman. All those things are consistently supported on Holla Forums (while the first and last I've never seen the brown berets discussed on here. Did you even read this excellent post.
Try reading this article for a good explanation of what idpol is and why its excellent.
viewpointmag.com
Ian Ross
Lately, the whole discourse of identity politics has been reduced to mush and coopted by neoliberalism and commodity marketing. Whatever the benefits of 'strategic essentialism' may be, they are outweighed by the fetishised identity's potential as a mechanism of control within late capitalist society. Can essentialism be really strategic if the essence in question is imposed from above by Madison Av. Ad Execs, bourgeoisie academics and corporate 'diversity consultants'?
Jaxson Johnson
Very well said comr8.
Jace White
You have to go back.
Hunter Perry
Sarcasm truly escapes you. The joke: Modern black/brown power movements are labeled idpol by Holla Forums despite their ideologies never having changed since the 60s and 70s.
Robert Williams
We wish.
Nathaniel Thompson
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Elijah Wood
For the record I don't really like Black Lives Matter for their non-violent civil disobedience ideology, I just get that they have a point.
Hudson Johnson
Muke put it well
Justin Jenkins
Muke is really bright
Carson Watson
He was clearly referring to the tactic being anti-anarchist..
Jacob Walker
Maybe he wanted to but he wrote something else.
Brandon Murphy
...
Parker Sullivan
Do they mean that in a way of detaching from dependency on corporations exploiting the culture and misfortune in Black communities or is it just wanting Black CEOs?
Owen Davis
more like 'buy black' campaigns and economic nationalism within capitalism
Tyler Gray
Workers of the world, unite.
But not if you're white or male, of course. And you'd better organize into a hierarchy based on oppression-points because let's not pretend we're all equals.
Easton Morris
This is a troll account, right?
Luis Diaz
Damn, I was hopeful Group Economics would be something promising.
Lincoln Harris
...
Lincoln Garcia
I think this is an excellent critique of identity politics as it is, but not identity politics as it could be. I share your doubts about whether or not the liberal mentality is salvageable, but there is obviously still a need for some form of identity politics. Oppression based on race, gender, and sexual orientation are still very real phenomenons in our society, and class struggle wont inherently resolve them. There is still racism and sexism within leftist circles. We need to incorporate some form of feminism and sexism into our movement in someway if it is to remain relevant. Class struggle MUST be at the center of course, as the mode of production is primary in relation to the superstructure.
Asher Sanchez
Yes it will. All that shit you just talked about are byproducts of exploitation. They are a mechanism in which the exploitation reproduces itself.