We've got a serious problem on this board. It's the fucking LARPers who, in response to any reasonable chance at helping workers, just cry that you can't trust "succdems" and talk about the murder of a single person that happened over 100 years ago by people that have nothing to do with modern democratic socialists.
For example, the DSA, a new organization that's quickly raising class consciousness among working class people and disillusioned democrats is just shit on because they have pro-lgbt buttons and are therefore "idpol" and of course le rosa xD
The world is getting worse and worse every day for the working class. We can't afford this LARPing bullshit and ignore the real, practical ways in which we can make conditions for the working class better. If you cared at all for working people you would realize that. But Rosaposters don't. They're muh privileged LARPers who like to treat this as a spectacle. Do you realize people are going to fucking die because of Trump fucking up the already fucked healthcare system?
Have you ever wondered why the right keeps winning and the left is a bunch of losers? Because the right doesn't have integrity. The right wins because they're unified in their shittyness.
The accelerationist meme is simply bullshit. On one hand they say voting does nothing (which is a lie) and on the other they tell you to vote for fascists in order to speed up revolution or something (yeah, revolution against the United States military would go great).
Revolutions, especially in this day and age of Orwellian state power, can't be accomplished through quick acts of violence like they used to. They have to be long and the sum of elections, mutual aid, alternatives to state and capitalist resources, educating people, small bursts of violence to show the bourgeoisie we're serious, and COMPROMISE. Sectarianism is why we get nowhere and why the right does.
No, Sanders isn't ideal. But Sanders is as left as you can acceptably be in the USA. There's a reason the third party socialists and communists are absolutely irrelevant.
Le succdem meme xD le rosa ;-;
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Well user, I would suggest going outside in the world, organizing, and leaving this place behind, because it's increasingly clear that it's being filled to the brim with shitposting and other types of memeing, >le suckyd xD circlejerking that you see around here. Seriously, there's not really any reason to keep meandering around here.
I'm not leaving because this board can be saved.
You know how.
SocDems don't help workers, they exploit them and crush them. Much of the west today is run along socdem lines, it is the workers who are rebelling against this in favor of reactionary ideologies, not the ruling class and especially not porky, who love the current setup.
If porky loved DemSoc he would have supported Bernie, who would have made the workers way happier.
we get it, OP. You like the DSA.
It's very simple, stop being a fucking idiot.
Support socdems and unions and the DSA and so on, just do not expect revolution or big changes from them.
We don't have to abstain, we just have to drop the delusion.
Social Democracy (and by extension, the DSA) are bad because they seek to use and extend the power of the current statist system for nominally good ends. It's a bandaid. It makes things a little better for people in the moment without really fixing the systemic issues that put them in that situation, while at the same time, expanding that system's power in a way that's sure to be abused by the next non social-democrat to get elected.
I would gladly support a pro revolutionary organization, but you cannot work through bourgoise democracy and expect worthwhile reform. They control the system and they will always water it all down to stuff that in the end does nothing but satiate people while still keeping the rich in power.
We don't support you not because of the Rosa meme, we don't support you because we don't think it will work.
It's because image boards are full of autismos completely detached from reality who only know how to purity spiral.
I don't mind poaching potential members from the DSA but SDs generally get nothing done and just work within the system in a way that's never going to result in meaningful change.
Don't pretend like we don't support your precious DSA because of le Rosa meme, you know that's not true.
I came from Reddit. Image board users know fucking nothing about purity spirals.
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STOP HAVING FUN GUYS
Top kek, the irony is so thick we could cut it up and serve a family of six.
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The Rosa meme was worthy of a chuckle or two back before April, but it seems like if there's more than 10 replies on a non-Holla Forums thread, somebody gets triggered by the existence of succdems and shitposts about Rosa.
The LARPing thats been going on has been way out of control, to the point of people of saying "You guys aren't revolutionary!". It's like I'm back on Reddit or some shit with all the Rosa posting and "revolutionary" bullshit.
It also seems like we got a truckload of tankies in the past couple of weeks, so reddit may be hemorrhaging users who then come here and screech about the Soviet Union being a workers paradise.
Now then:
Modern accelerationism stems from the observation that people have only revolted when conditions became too unbearable to live under, so a solution is that if you're going to vote, then vote for the option that makes conditions worse (from my understanding). Whether or not you agree with that tactic, it is what it is.
Define "quick". If you mean up to and/or more than a decade, then sure, the revolutions of the past were quick, otherwise you're full of shit.
However, you do have a point with how we basically need to rethink and reorganize our viewpoints because the ==MATERIAL CONDITIONS== have changed, primarily with state power and how the state pretty much knows everything you like and do, right down to what kind of porn you watch the most often.
"The Left" has been doing this since before Marx. It's been over a hundred years and these tactics have shown that they don't work. This relates back to accelerationism and conditions needing to be absolute shit in order for people on a large scale to revolt.
Yes, it's primarily 3 reasons: Inaccessible language, looking like a cult (RCP-USA being the best example of this), and Soviet worship.
The biggest point I want to make though is this: Social Democracies have come to power and covered most of Asia and Europe, but have since been overthrown (Soviet Union, etc.) or are in the process of being dismantled (Neoliberalism), and have done nothing but left capitalism in power and a bad taste in everybody's mouths surrounding socialism/communism.
In regards to Rosa posters who are also pro-soviet in the slightest, they are fucking retarded. If the Red Army had actually gotten to Germany, they would have, under Trotsky's orders, shot and killed Rosa and anybody else who was aligned with her under the guise of them being "counter-revolutionaries", and we would either be in a better or worse position. Thinking this wouldn't happen, after Trotsky had anarchists and workers shot for not wanting to align with the Soviets, is completely idealist.
Is this about the rosa joke yesterday? C'mon user I was kidding, lighten the fuck up. You got meme'd on, kiddo. You're never gunna make it on this board if you flip out and start a rage thread every time someone cracks one. C'mon, buddy…
Karl Marx in his 1848 speech "On the Question of Free Trade"
marxists.org
This makes me laugh every fucking time
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Only a very small number of autists REALLY care about the death of Rosa Luxembourg: rather, the entire incident is emblematic of the problem socdems: that literally EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE shows that they'll stab the left in the back when the going gets tough and then 20-30 years down the line there's nothing to show for it anyway because they'd rather work with the right than the left and then the right stabs THEM in the back every single time.
Once would be chance. Twice could conceivably be coincidence… A dozen times is an active indictment of social democracy.
Want to know how I can tell you're pretty secure financially
Dude that was a joke meme that died like 2 months ago.
What you fail to understand is that Keynsian economics, while slightly better than the other side, the Friedman neoliberalism, are still ulimtately doomed to fail (and have failed, 2007 crash being a stellar example of this.) It was through social democracy that we propped up the banks.
Cash injections fuel growth in the short term but inflate the cost of living leading to a poorer standard of living.
If you go the other way, cut spending, you end up with a shrunken economy because government spending is a huge driver of the economy.
Capitalism is doom to fail whatever you do. Social Democracy simply is not enough AND all it takes is for one leader/administration to balls it up and the power will be handed back to the conservatives, who will gut and cut everything you have tried to build, leaving you with a bunch of half private half public, public risk, private profit, woefully inefficient, unaccountable business haemorraging resources to waste and corruption. i.e the UK/US right now.
We aren't trying to be edgy of larp, its just if you discredit socialism in the name of socialism, it makes socialism look bad, regardless of the fact that you are just a socdem.
Call yourselves welfare statists, don't drag our name through the mud
DSA isn't social democrat, and they have posters of Rosa everywhere at all their central meetings
nah,he's right.
What you fail to understand is that Keynsian economics, while slightly better than the other side, the Friedman neoliberalism, are still ulimtately doomed to fail (and have failed, 2007 crash being a stellar example of this.) It was through social democracy that we propped up the banks.
bruh have you been in a coma since 1971?
I fucking hate these memes so much.
wasted trips
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Social democracy is bad because it breeds fascism. Social democracy necessitates the creation of an outgroup who is ineligible to receive the benefits of social democracy. In principle, we ought to reject the idea of "helping" workers. We can conceive of scenarios where Nazis could "help" workers by offering benefits only for the (white) in-group, for example - the will of the workers is not necessarily something that ought to be followed. The left should advocate no stance whatsoever on mainstream politics other than its complete negation.
Of social democracy? Yes. Always
absolutely OP.
here's where you lost me with this bullshit.
sage because your post mostly sucked even if I agree with part of it.