What does Holla Forums think about muslims?

This

Very rude. Sexism or Islamophobia aren't very leftist things user.

Interesting. I grew up around fairly well off muslims, so I have never met a muslim without a college degree or college educated parents.

But you know, a mandatory part of Islam is like giving a certain amount of your income to charity. Also the concept of "race" does not exist in Islam. We are all one in Islam. Islam is more than just a religion, it is a way of life, with an economic system included in the package.

I can call people sluts if they are one, and hating religion is one of the most leftist things you can do.

American detected.

Paying tax to charity isnt a new fucking economic system

Youth that turn to Jihadism are an anomaly among Western Muslims who are getting increasingly secularized. Islam in the West will eventually whither away just like Christianity did. That is, unless retarded populists keep on seizing every opportunity to loudly shit down their neck.

This feels like pol bait but I'll take it. Generally my view is that to say there is one Islam is retarded (much like all religions). Religion isn't a monolith. But in generally I feel sympathy for the middle east due to it being fucked so hard by the colonial powers and Israel that extremism was inevitable. From personal experience the Muslims I know have been way more chill then other religious groups.

neck yourself at once, Ahmed. your disgusting moon-rock worshiper faith is the purest embodiment of evil on earth. You are the problem of the century to be dealt with. Marx would have hated you.

Fair enough. I do not believe in imposing my views on others so I will respect yours as at least what you say is consistent unlike with Holla Forumstards.
But I hope you at least consider muslims your allies against the alt right white supremacist fascist nazi's.
Yes I live in America.

We can be peaceful muslims without giving up our identity. You're sounding a lot like someone who would post on Holla Forums

I came from Holla Forums. I tried defending leftism and progressive values there but it is just too stressful seeing all the hate there towards anyone who isn't a straight white male.
And thanks for the kind words brother.

>>>Holla Forums

Lol, charity is not an integral part of socialist (or any other economic) thought. Kill yourself.

It's redistribution of wealth.

As I said, there is no such thing as "eternal" Islam. Technically Jesus told the rich to fuck off in the holy scriptures, yet that doesn't mean self-described Christians will follow suit. Same goes for the Zakat: Would you claim the Saudis and their fleets of gold-plated Rolls Royce honor any of that?

The content of actually existing religion is first and foremost determined by the material conditions that see it thrive. Can religion assume a progressive role at times? Yes, it can — but that is determined by history, not by any sort of "essence" of that religion.

Christianity is Martin Luther King Jr. and the Ku Klux Klan. Islam is universalist justice and genocidal terrorism. Because again, religion's content is shaped by material conditions and not the emanation of some sort of mystical monolith.

You have to go back or lurk more

qt

American detected.
There are no fucking le alt right white supremacists in any significant numbers in europe. What there actually are are muslim youth who commit mass murders and go to the middle east to join ISIS. They are much more dangerous than your american internet meme boogeyman.

Absolutely this.

Also, theres turks who attack people from my country and support their nazi dictator despite being born here.
Your retarded american centric worldview does not translate at all to europe. In america everybody is still butthirt because in 2001 a false flag cia supported group blew up two towers, here people are being killed every year and I have to avoid certain parts of town after dark because of muslims. The hate they get is partially justified.

I have no wish to "erase" your identity. I am merely stating the obvious: As times goes on, devotion to Islam among Western Muslims will fade away — not because I personally want it to go away, but because that's the kind of process religion goes through when the conditions for secularization are met.

I do think secularization is a good thing, though. And honestly, as a Muslim, so should you. I mean, who would you rather have as a coreligionist: Someone who believes in Islam somewhat because that's how he was raised and he never questioned it, or someone who converted of his own accord because he felt a sincere and heartfelt connection to Islamic faith?

Anyway, secularization doesn't mean you can't observe Islamic rites or believe in God. One of my best friends is a Muslim and I can have meaningful conversations with him about religion and whatnot. But here's the thing: he's basically a cross between Chad Thundercock and Farid al-Din Attar, which further supports my point that traditional adherence to Islamic thought and practice aren't going to last forever.

Please keep the smutty accusations at a minimum.

I'd say bullshit. What socialist would say women are worth less than men? Sharia law is trash.

>>>Holla Forums

I'll lurk more. This place is interesting. I was hoping this place would be a less robotic/more genuine version of /r/politics but this place seems to have a different ideology than I expected.

Thanks senpai

The saudi royal family are secularists. They are not real muslims. Fake muslims or extremely shitty muslims at best. That's like calling Trump or Clinton christians.
The latter of course.
I-I'm sorry. I just really REALLY hate Holla Forums

Women are treated very well in Islam. But our culture is not western culture so what be see as women's rights and feminism would not be the same as what a westerner would think of those words. Don't believe in the memes though.

Believing in utopian theocracy and ranting about true islamic government is the hallmark of a deluded idiot who has no clue about islamist positions and institutions. Mostly boils down to feeble minded believe that the true believer cant be corrupt. kys

Not terribly fond of any religion personally, but just like any group that size some of them are good, some are bad. There would be a hell of a lot less of the bad ones if the west hadn't spent the past few decades dropping bombs on them and supporting far-right extremists, though.

I don't give a shit about your culture. Socialism is EQUALITY. Treating women as anything less than 100% equals is fundamentally incompatible with this. Is it a meme that women are forced to cover up in public? Is it a meme that a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's in Sharia courts?

Yeah, he also raped a 9-year-old girl who he married when she was six
tell that to female genital mutilation

Fuck off back to reddit braindead islamist piece of shit. Theocracy cant work, never worked and is spooked and oppressive as hell.

Don't forget women require four men to testify for them being raped, they also get arrested for being raped too.

gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

You also sound like you need the gulag

No, imagesmena.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/04/IMAGESMENA-2017-FULL-Final.pdf

EXCEPT IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS YOU FUCKING THEOCRATIC FASCIST SCUM. I hope you get killed next by some retarded arab who thinks you are from the wrong sect, so nobody has to suffer under your american liberalism anymore.

Why can't theocracy work? In fairness theocracy has a much longer history of working than non theocracy does. KSA and Iran are perfectly functioning theocracies. Not even muslim but stop regurgitating empty reddit platitudes without even thinking them through.

There is no such thing as "the Sharia law". Sharia is simply a term referring to Islamic law, which by the way is subject to Fiqh — human interpretation. Its content and application vary as widely as secular law.

it's exploitation under the name of 'God'.
Sure, it works if you want to be pedantic, but so did neoliberalism to a degree.

So does feudalism you dumb fuck.

What you call "working" are extremely shitty places. We want liberation for all humans not opressive hierachical, nature destroying, exploitative structures inable to self inovate.

And all interpretations of it are shit.

You sound like a liberal that expected to find more liberals in this board. Please, spare us the pain read a book

1400 years ago that was the norm in Arabia.
Only muslim women in Africa suffer from this, and it is an african cultural thing, not an islamic thing.

Please do not spout Holla Forums memes. You are sounding very ignorant by talking about something you know nothing about.

In Islam we see women and men as equals. But we also know that there are certain roles attributed to each gender.
Yes. It is not islamically required of a woman to wear a headscarf. You will be seen as a stricter muslim for wearing it as it is seen more as extra credit, but it is not mandatory or required.
As for dressing modestly, this is required for both men and women.
This is only in certain circumstances. But those circumstances I unfortunately do not remember as this is not an issue muslims in America deal with.

Islam is not oppressive though. Please do not repeat the ignorance of a Holla Forumstard who has never actually spoken to a muslim intellectual about anything.

Quite a bigoted and islamophobic rant. You definitely belong with your bigot friends on Holla Forums

Also this. Sharia law means something different depending on the muslim.

Is this not Holla Forums?

Also it wasn't rape. He married her with the consent of her parents, who in fact pressured prophet Mohammad pbuh to marry their daughter.

Holla Forums is a socialist board, not a liberal board.

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Bernie Sanders is a socialist, and until he bent the knee for Clinton I saw him as a great man who represented my values.

Holy shit, fuck off back to reddit. Leftypol isn't liberalpol faggot. Also you still respect someone who fucked a 9 year old. I'm not respecting a religion that condones that sort of shit.
If this isn't some liberal cunt I don't know what you are

I have spoken to many islamists, they are allways completely devoid of any political knowledge beyond their islamism and cant defend their positions. They allways reffer to "experts who know better". This is either bait or you are dumb as fuck.

Liberal social democrat =/= Socialist

Muʿtazila or nothing.

Bernie is not a socialist. And we dont care about your "values".

This is bait.

Also I believe that corporations, private entities, or capitalism in general have no right to exist, and the government should regulate prices, and give income equality to everyone.
And I admire figures like Castro, Che, and Lenin
I would consider myself communist if I didn't believe in god, but since I do I just consider myself socialist.

kys

You are actively lowering the quality of the board by shitposting and arguing in bad faith while your opponent argues politely in good faith and whose only crime is ignorance. Cease!

Quran 4:34

Quran 2:282

C'mon, don't bullshit me.

It's prescribed in the Quran you dipshit. It's not for "specific cases only".
Need I remind you that under your very own religion the Quran is to be obeyed and not interpreted?
Jesus Christ, you really need the tankies to have their way with you.

Then that isn't fucking equality, is it? That's like saying "hey, in feudalism, we see all classes as equals… they just have different roles attributed to them". Funny how men get all the powerful roles, huh?
Fair enough, but the Quran does say a lot about keeping men and women separate. This is not conducive to a socialist society to say the least.
ANY circumstances is unacceptable and totally invalidates your whole "they are equals with different roles" bullshit. If they were equals there wouldn't be any instance in which one is less than the other.
Yes, and leftists aren't liberals. Read a fucking book, please. Preferably one that's written left to right.
are you fucking serious with this shit? parents don't get to fucking consent on the child's behalf you imbecile.

Would you say this about a fascist arguing his case on this board? Cause Islamism isn't much fucking better.

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Read a fucking book, the number of misconceptions you have shown in this thread is massiv and you dont even seem to respond to the criticism beside usual islamist whining.

Communism means overthrow of the wagesystem, not income equality. It does not mean "government doing things" There is no difference between socialism and communism as a political position in the long run.

Islamists are braindead, you will learn that in time. You have better chances or convincing a nazi than the average islamist.

nice try

this literally describes when it is sanctioned by islam to fucking beat your wife
what is this supposed to prove

It means sometimes its not ok so its ok to hit your wife even though its not ok but it is ok so you're cool.

nothing. Their fine. as long as their not hardcore islamists who want sharia law, etc.

I honestly think half of these idpol posts are troll bait from Holla Forums

fucking saved

I would say the same tbh, but the difference is advocating Fascism is substantially different then being ignorant about your own religion and thinking it's better than it is.

He's clearly not an Islamist, just an ignorant, well-meaning, liberal Muslim.

im confused
is this haram or nah?

How embarrassing

If he wants "actual islamic government" then hes an islamist and is an enemy of ours regardless of how liberal he seems.

shut the fuck up retard

I don't even know what the fuck haram means, to be honest.

In Islam we have many powerful women figures.

Please do not cherrypick verses without understanding their context, or the verses that came before and after them.
See pic related for help.

What would you replace the wage system with? As long as everyone is treated equally and have the same standards of life I would support overthrowing it.

In our culture the parents even consent for their children as adults unless they're married, and even then they must respect what their parents say and greatly take it into consideration.

Thanks user. I completely agree with you.

Interesting.

What an awful, oppressive culture

The verses that come later, if they contradict the former, supercede it.

Why the fuck are you arguing whether or not Islam or the Quran is compatible with Socialism to a Muslim who thinks it is? Let them believe what they want, if they're a Socialist or willing to become one that's all that matters, not whether or not it conflicts with the basis of the rest of their beliefs.

But the conditions of secularism being met surely hinge in large part on there being a super majority of secular people with 'enlightenment values' with whom the currently religious intermingle.
This is not even in evidence today, when Muslim populations in the west are small.

Basically, you're being wholly naive.

Not an argument, and no sign of equality and breakdown of prejustice.

Communism, production for need and a rational society

Your culture is objectivly shit

first off, socialism and communism are the same thing
and second, there is no such thing as a socialist or communist government

Jesus Christ that's anarcho-capitalism levels of dumbfuckery.

It's my understanding that this just applies to the women. And either way, your culture is *wrong*.

I may be a Marxist but I'm not a cultural Marxist. Your culture is fucking oppressive and shit and I feel sorry for all you motherfuckers who've been indoctrinated into it.
The only ones I've heard about have been the wives of male figures. But even if there are female figures in their own right, that doesn't mean Islam isn't a sexist pile of trash. America elected a black President twice but it's still a racist shithole.

I don't think so. What I think is oppressive is western culture.

There are no contradictions in the Qur'an. If you have any questions about the Holy Qur'an please feel free to contact a sheikh who can help you better than I can.

Thank you user. I believe Islam and socialism can co exist very well.

But it is. The most important figure in Islam after the prophet is a woman.
Islam is all about fighting against injustice. And you see it as inequality because you have been raised in a western country, and brainwashed by capitalist western ideals. From a muslims perspective, what we see as equality, exists for men and women.
Sounds good to me.
That is intolerance and bigotry which you speak.

Isn't communism an extreme form of socialism?

No, it applies to both men and women. And if married men are always required to consult their wives when making decisions, and women do the same with their husbands when making decisions.

That would be the west

didn't mean to write an "if" in the second to last reply

Sorry I missed your post fam. And thanks you're a bro too

Gulag

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This thread made me stalinist

Gulgags for the muslims

I know this was intended as a gotcha, but it's not impossible to think both Islam and western society are sexist piles of trash.

Tolerance for the sake of tolerance is pretty shitty

u fokn wot m8

ITT: Holla Forums's first taqqiah

Terrorist groups are not muslim. They kill muslims more than anyone else. Also christians and jews are considered "people of the book" in Islam and are supposed to be protected by muslims, but terrorists groups like ISIS still kill them.
Also in Islam, it is forbidden to force anyone to convert.

If anything they are likely western agents as they serve their purposes and also slander the image of muslims.

it should be, considering a woman just recently came close to taking the most powerful position in the west, and the world. plus the fact that the west allows women in its police forces and militaries, and other positions of major authority

the west is not sexist. take your "they're just as bad as each other" crap some place else

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No true scotsman
They just pay higher taxes if they don't want to convert :^)
"You're not forced to get a job under capitalism!"

Not according to Marx. 'Socialism is the stage between capitalism and communism' is Stalinist revisionism.

Fucking relativist islamists

._.
obama being president doesn't mean racism doesn't exist. a woman *nearly* being president doesn't mean sexism doesn't exist.
this is like if i pointed at a rags-to-riches story and said see? capitalism doesn't oppress the poor.

This is fractal bullshit. I think post modern islamists would make a great topic, they have a truly uniquely retarded worldview.

sexism means men and women aren't equal under the law. they are. in the west, no woman is denied or refused anything simply because of her being a female

Obama being president means black people have the chance to be powerful, women being capable of becoming president means there is not sexism built into the foundations of America keeping women from doing anything, which is what 'feminists' believe.

yeah except I'm not just talking about the law, I'm talking about society.

poor people being capable of becoming rich means there's not classism built into the foundations of america keeping poor people from doing anything, which is what socialists believe. do you see how retarded that line of argument is?

so provide an example of clear-cut, indisputable, everyday sexism faced by women in the west

Imperialist warmongers.

Manspreading.

victimblaming, marginalization in workplaces and policy, accesibility to reproductive healthcare, i could go on

… you sinner

proof?

OK, this is one of many examples but it's the first that came to mind.
>Half the scientists were given the application with a male name attached, and half were given the exact same application with a female name attached. *Results found that the “female” applicants were rated significantly lower than the “males” in competence, hireability, and whether the scientist would be willing to mentor the student.*
blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/study-shows-gender-bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters/

Those are issues men face more than women.

Except they do things that are unislamic and hurt muslims worldwide
Tax money that is paid in exchange for muslims protecting them and basically being their bodyguards.
Tax money that will also be put to good use for the benefit of the entire muslim community. It doesn't go into the pockets of a few wealthy elite like it would in a capitalist state.

Interesting. Thanks for the info

It's all true though.

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LOL
yeah because priests aren't wealthy elite

We don't have priests or a hierarchy of that sort.
Islamically that money is either redistributed directly to the people or used to fund social programs or benefits for the community.

Stop being a disingenuous cunt.
Read a fucking book please.

Hilarious.
Look just because modern feminism has turned to bullshit doesn't mean sexism has magically gone away. Society's attitude towards women is shit and needs to change if we want a more equal society… that isn't idpol, it's a fact.

If I have a daughter Im going to give her a mans name.

Discrmination status: Ended over night.

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men deal with all those things just as frequently

wow that's really comparable to forbidding women to drive cars or be in public without a chaperone, forcing them to wear veils, mutilating their genitals, raping them as preteens, forcing them into arranged marriages as children, beating them for disobedience and stoning them for adultery, and on and on. the west truly is a "sexist pile of trash" just like saudi arabia and yemen

surplus value exploitation. nice nonargument dude

The attitude towards men is also shit and needs to change.

Did you know men get longer sentences in prison than women for doing the exact same crime?

Did you know in childcare parents choose women over men in the vast majority of cases?

But there is classism, the difference between being poor and being a woman is one requires you to put effort and work into it while the former is you can't do shit because you have no money and you're starving to death. Anyway, you become rich by sheer luck, which is why such a small percentage of America is rich. That and if everyone was rich there'd be no need for employment and with the current capitalism system in America, we can all see how that would turn out.
America is not sexist. Also I'm not a socialist.

Are you making things up again?
How do you know it goes to priests user?

you and another user said this and it's the first time i'm hearing this, so please explain your reasoning? how are men subject to denial of reproductive healthcare? i don't know if you're paying attention to countries like poland, croatia, slovenia etc., but there's a big push towards preventing access to abortions.

and don't just say "condoms ain't free"

Useful friends in the war against USA and their allies
The muslim countries which are USA colonies will be free from capitalism one day as well.

None of that actually happens pls you sound just like a Holla Forumstard who has never actually talked to a muslim irl.

read What he said is true, did you know that men also have a higher suicide rate than women?
afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/ Source if you're incapable of fact checking.

what shit attitude? that women are are faultless and always in the right? that all men are violent sex offenders or potential offenders? women in the west are put on a pedestal and protected by society and the state to a disproportionate degree. if you deny this, just look at all the homeless and destitute women around, or rather lack thereof

wow 3 majorly catholic societies! whodathunkit?

i'm not asking about that, learn some reading comprehension.

i'm fully aware men face some issues (intrinsic to the conceptino of gender in capitalist societies), but that's not what your previous comment claimed.

Thank you so much. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. We are allies against right wing fascist nazi's and capitalist pigs, and we also have many of the same views in common.

gotta be bait at this point

Fuck you, OP. I dont have a single bit of respect for retarded religious people, especially those who actively argue that their special kind of fairy tales, that are as of now used to justify genocide and theocracy, is somehow socialist. Socialism and communism is, and has always been, anti religious. OP is not arguing in bad faith, he is just a retarded american liberal who calls everyone who disagrees with them a bigot.

Far from it, that was just those idiot Russians who read Marx but didn't understand it.

Honest opinion: Muslims, the ones in Britain at least get a bad rep.

Not the same guy I was just adding to the other guys post you faggot.

Women can drive cars everywhere in the world except one country (saudi arabia), and veil is only enforced in two countries (saudi arabia and iran), as opposed to every other muslim country and muslims in the west. The rest of those statements are just false, and I have never heard of any instances of those happening amongst anyone I know. You are just repeating islamophobic memes that are not true

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Malaysia enforces it within government countries.

Government buildings i mean

Forgot to add:
You should realise that you existing and having ideas does not mean you are entitled to have those beliefs respected. Your beliefs are WRONG, you are wrong, your whole line of thinking is wrong. You are not entitled to anything, and you supporting retarded religious beliefs despite all the evidence on the contrary, while espouting reactionairy beliefs such as "well true islam is x or y" are doing everything in your power to make me hate you.

And all other marxists and anarchists. Gosh, its almost as if religion is and has always been a tool used by the rich and powerfull to justify their bullshit, while equality doesnt need a magic sky person to justify it.

nice argument there buddy

so western countries majority atheist countries now?

Well that sounds like its for political reasons to maintain an image, not religious ones.

There's a lot of hardcore catholics who are communist party members. In some cases for decades and they always help the party in their free time.
You read too much theory retard

Condoms aint free.

Marxists and anarchists have pretty much fuck all to do with communism.
"If you're Marxists, then I'm not" - Marx

The difference is socialism is directly incorporated into our religion.
Muslims are socialists by default.

Now im going to leave you to masturbate about how your genocidal fairytail book is so much better than all the others, and how the religious law that states women are subhuman is somehow socialist because you give scraps to beggars. Good night and fucking kill yourself you retarded burger. Fuck, it seems like everyone who lives in america is mentally disabled.

I just said how I was adding to the other guys post to enforce what he said, I wasn't trying to argue. Fuck me, Islam has actually corroded your brain cells.

I like Muslims a hell of a lot more than atheists.

I get that some of you have an antagonistic worldview because your fundamentalist mom smashed your Pokemon cartridge or something, but religion is a benign expression of culture for most people. Whenever I meet somebody who thinks it's religion of all things that is holding us back I just wonder what the hell is wrong with him. 9/10 times it's an American too.

whataboutism. i never once said the west was as bad as the middle east. i said they're both bad, not AS bad.

Ah yes, the people who are litterally defined as being communist have nothing to do with communism. Kill yourself, OP, you fucking liberal scum.

"marginalization in workplaces and policy," whatever that means, is not a sex issue, unless you think there a difference between a marginalised male and a marginalised female (hint: there isn't). "victim blaming" is just obnoxious tumblr-style hysterics and nonsense not worthy of anyone's attention. the only western countries with any sort of controversy surrounding reproduction are those with significant religious populations. contraception and abortion are not an issue in australia, the uk, nz, germany, france, belgium, netherlands, etc, etc. blame religion and its attempts to stifle human rights, not some general "sexism" that all men are responsible for

right, Saudi doesn't have male guardianship laws on the books, I forgot.
pull the fucking other one idiot.

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I think all the Abrahamic religions are pretty socialist, but the followers aren't.

LOL fucking tough guy over here. Don't get too angry kid, you'll need your computer tomorrow too.

yet you've been unable to demonstrate how the west is at all sexist, let alone as sexist as the islamic world. so the point stands

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To end slavery did people insult slaves until they stopped slaving?

Saudi Arabia does not speak for Islam or for over 1 billion muslims.

No.

The Victorians ended slavery around most of the world because they thought it contradicted their christfag values.

Although it still carries on in some muslim countreis to this day.

Since mohammed died nobody speaks for Islam that is the reason for all the wars.
They need someone to tell the sunnis to stop massacring the shiites.

At least Christians had the pope to be a referee.

For centuries women in european countries wore headscarfs. It is a part of western culture as well.

this isn't about atheists. muslims are incapable of separating their religion from culture and society. secularism is not part of their worldview or condition, and the average muslim is much more devout/religiously serious than the average religious westerner

They're alright and in my experience perhaps the kindest group or "type" of people I know. I spent one and a half year working as an English teacher in Xining, China, which has a large amount of Hui Chinese Muslims, and have pretty much nothing but good memories of it.

There is and can be no such thing as a socialist or communist government, and as says no religion exists in a unitary, transhistorical form.

do they generally do it now? are they expected to? are they required to? no, no, no

Anyways I have to go to sleep now. It was nice meeting all of you. With the exception of some Holla Forumstards larping here as leftists I enjoyed my experience here. I will definitely stick around and lurk more ( ^-^)

Another thing forbidden in Islam. Sectarian shitheads who do the wests bidding do not speak for over 1 billion peaceful muslims.

Then we had something called womens liberation where people in the west decided it was wrong to rob women of their identity and prevent them from participating in society by forcing them to wear certain clothing.

Muslims do a lot of things that are forbidden in Islam dont they?

I really hate hijabs.

Secularism is having a state that doesn't reflect any one religious doctrine. It doesn't mean you cease to be religious yourself.

As far as I know there is no mainstream movement to Islamize any Western country.
What really offends you is the fact that people have publicly visible articles of their faith in the form of dress/diet/behavior, which has nothing to do with secularism.

With modes of globalisation (particularly the internet) hitting the Muslims world hard now, we're gonna see a lot of changes there over the 21st century.
The religious hardliners are not gonna go down without a fight as they see the community around them change.

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It's their turn to become civilized now that christianity is dying.

they are not 'peaceful' if they support death penalty for apostasy, adultery, sex outside of marriage, prostitution, homosexuality, sectarianism, and others; they are just getting their governments to dole out their violence instead of doing it themselves

and? should i instead support people whose values are contradictory and hostile to my own, and invite them to my community? a person's values matter

Women's lib wasn't dictated from the top-down. Nobody banned all headscarves in Christian countries and women said "ok you're right let's be progressive." It came with material and cultural development.

All atheist faggots have the same thinly-veiled contempt for anything alien. Then they give it progressive window dressing in the form of endless concern trolling.

i'm not an atheist. my problem is with those religious values that advocate tyranny and cruelty, not "anything alien"

Muslim here. For us, secularism without socialism and patriotism is usually doomed to fail.

Society is generally built upon compromise. If you expect it to resemble your precise worldview then you're par for the course for most autistic atheists I guess.

and how might one compromise with one who believes that apostates should be murdered, or that women must wear veils?

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All atheists have ginger hair.

I guess thats why so many muslim countries allied with the Nazis.

Like class compromise?

Through the legal obstacles stacked against implementing such policies in a secular state?

If that's really what somebody thinks, they're not going to get very far with it in your country.

what did you say oppa?

As individuals, I like them. I think their religion is hokey and weird,
but I also think all religion is hokey and weird.

This post sounds really funny if you imagine it's directed at somebody talking about overthrowing capitalism.

whats so important about the enlightenment and secularism?

Capitalism is an immediate, tangibly violent presence in all of our countries.

An individual whose religion doesn't like gays is not.

If you lived in a theocracy it'd be hard to advocate compromise.

then why did they come to the country in the first place, if that country doesn't share their values? oh that's right, to exploit the welfare state

this is the fundamental issue: muslims want to live in the west, but not live in the west. they want to exploit its economic benefits, but live as they did at home. they want to be a cultural entity segregated from their surroundings, where they don't have to expose themselves to the alien cultures and values they despise

you accuse me of having contempt for "anything alien," but muslims are more contemptful than anyone when it come to those they deem 'kuffar'

Fascist religion with some socialist ideas like helping the poor. But they hate homosexuals and it says in the quran that women only should work if they are widowed.

I dont have the guts to speak about islam with my friends. They all seem to love it even tho some of them are homosexuals and trans.

Religions(like Islam) are immediate, tangibly violent presence in all of our countries.

People tend to get on with building society rather than wasting time praying or killing people for being a different religion.

This. There's a muslim girl in one of classes who is a qt3.14

Can someone explain to me why women in Islam aren't allowed to show their hair to arouse men, but makeup (like in ) seems to be fine? Isn't that contradictory?

Why not youtu.be/nvHIvK9eQAs

All muslisms that I have met were good, honest people, their religion needs some serious reform, but I do think they are ok