Socialist Patriotism

"I believe in a secioty where farmers control their own land [means of production], life self sufficiency and have very limited activity on the market for some basic exchange of good. A minimalist state should barely exist to ensure this can continue". Sounds like a verity of mutualism to me.

holy shit i looked it up jefferson was /ourguy/ who knew.

Fucking no he was not.

He really wasn't, he has the Gaddafi thing going on of having GREAT theory but was a shitstain in real life. I ean he kept slaves, raped them and thought having slaves was a part to owning the means of production. Still, you can co-opt his ideals and say "The founding fathers were proto socialists". That should trigger some yanks.

nah man, slavery abolition and not raping your slave maidens is idpol. jefferson is /ourguy/. he was totally an anarchist

I always wondered why people seem to think that somehow changing the political system of a government needs to also have a change of flag design. A flag is the most distinct symbol of a nation, and changing it is a sign that you really aren't patriotic.

You want to promote patriotism as a socialist? Start by taking the flag away from the nationalist right.

I have no opinion on your overall goal, but the flag made me wanna post in thread.

Look at the section of "Notes On The State Of Virginia" where he talks about ward republics of face-to-face democracy. If not one, he was rather similar in ideas (although this didn't match up with the reality of him being a slaveholder).

Slavery is against freedom, no matter the basis for it. Abolitionism on the grounds of race is idpol. Abolition on the grounds of universal freedom absolutely isn't.

If 100% purity is your standard, you're going to be left disappointed with a lot of leftist philosophers/intellectuals.

Abraham Lincoln had some pretty socialist quotes after exchanging letters with Marx.

His bastard children were literal means of production, so was their mother his sister-in-law, but his platitudes were top notch so ofc he's /ourguy/

Some were pic. related

The thing with Jefferson is he's mostly been co-opted by the Libertarian party, if strictly on the basis of having a small gubment and nothing else. But if co-opting him also means you get to trigger them too then go ahead.

Arguably we could use Andrew Jackson as well, though he was something of a successor to Thomas Jefferson in terms of ideology.

A C T I O N J A C K S O N 2 0 2 0.
BUILD THE TRAIL MAKE THE NATIVES PAY FOR IT.

Who cares, trojan horse them through whatever means necessary. There will be an economic crash, and ultimately what matters is whether the workers are sympathetic enough to leftist thought – it doesn't matter what bullshit propaganda you yourself pulled to appeal to the local rednecks.

rednecks also believe America is controlled by money from the Gilded Age, and they're not wrong, what they need is motivation, heroin and deindustrialization have completely sapped their morale, and now they see the Don Jon isn't different either

I don't mean there's anything wrong with rednecks or the different cultures throughout the states. I just think that appeals to them should be done individually by those close to the culture. As a city-slicker white kid, I know the Appalachian folk don't care about what I say

Anarchists are only popular because of backlash against the USSR. I have a hard time believing anarchism in its current form will ever go anywhere. They don't seem focused on building alternative institutions at all and are just aimlessly larping. If a proper socialist movement gains steam most anarchists would join it I imagine.

youtube.com/watch?v=EsIw8k8u_1Q
Every single nationalist "communist" is my enemy and i want to kill you with my bare hands.

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Now with that out of the way, yes we obviously need a positive program. That positive programs shouldn't be about creating a new nation-state though.

Kill yourself.

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I would remove the stripes because they represent imperialism.

does it, really?

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He's no more guilty than you are for using your Chinese smartphone built with slave child labor and environmental devastation.

Being a slaveholder was a pragmatic necessity of his time for someone of his class even though he vehemently opposed it.

monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-slavery

That being said, all people of color/blacks/negroes need to stop being porky's useful voter idiots and stop clinging to slavery as though it were some uniquely horrific crime never before seen instead of just an extension of the general terror, oppression, and brutality that has been occurring since time immemorial.

holy shit how long have you been under that rock?

Oh ok, so in other words you have no positive ideas. "Things must get shittier before we can change anything" … etc..

Not according to my post, since anarchists are constantly shouting shit about 'no borders' and 'refugees welcome' all the time without bothering to distinguish how that rhetoric is different from that of the liberals. this cause a whole bunch of confusion and feeds the delusion that left=liberal

"I don't have a reasonable response so i'll just call you names"

Yeah cause the soviets didn't change the flag at all when their revolution happened,…. Nooo>.. oh wait-

i'm sorry but your post either indicates you're an idealist leftcom or an anarchist and makes me question if you have any concrete ideas on how you would even defend your revolution if it stood a remote chance at succeeding.

ebin tbh

I don't think the "open borders" policy actually means no borders. Everyone on the left understands that you can't just let everyone come and go as they please unchecked. Unless you're referring to the globalist "no borders" agenda, which is strictly speaking a trade policy.

read a book, a nation isn't the same as a state

That was in direct reference to, you know… America, where you wear underwear with the flag on it.

You can't even change out of a two-party system here (even though the govt actually is set up to allow multiple parties to run) let alone change the very symbol that most Americans identify with.

I'm indifferent to redesigning flags, so this doesn't affect me. I rather think most flag redesigns actually look better than Old Glory.

There is only one way to deal with the likes of you

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Ngl I don't rape my smartphone though.

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Imagine worshiping the most retarded dictator in history.

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fuck off with this retarded crypto-nationalist nonsense, someone always seems to be shilling these threads

America have several regional cultures

Oh, and Reminder that America gave us MURRAY B O O K C H I N.

It's 2017 bro

You sure about that m8?

As does essentially every country. So by what measure do you judge america to not be a nation-state?

If you are going to seperate american culture from british culture you might aswell seperate yankee, appalachian and dixie culture from each others , it's just as much off a difference betwen them

stop

I'm not a Stalinist, but I view Stalin's four criteria to be instructive: marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-8/cwg/part2.htm

Language
The United States speaks English. Not only that, but it's a particular dialect of English that is distinct from, though still mutually intelligible with, British English. It is even slightly different than Canadian English in its spelling, though they are not distinguishable in oral form. Spanish is used as a minority language, but even in the deepest barrio, English is still interwoven as a language of trade and commerce.

Territory
With a few exceptions, the United States is mostly contiguous. While Alaska has a lot of land mass, much of it is sparsely populated. Hence, the overwhelming majority of the population lives in the continental section. Internal geographical divisions are not major obstacles to communication or transport. Sub-national borders ("states" as we call them) are also not significant barriers to commerce or development, with many metropolitan areas spread over several of them.

Economic cohesion
The United States is, for all intents and purposes, a single market. There are no internal customs or tariff barriers, a single currency is in use, and a single entity (the federal government) makes nearly all rules for the operation of the market. The ability of the sub-national states to control or interfere with commerce even within their own borders is severely limited. Nearly all of them have adopted a uniform commercial code as well. Most foreign corporations have a single national office for the country. The continental US is heavily linked by road, rail, and air links, and the non-continental areas are still heavily connected by sea and air. Industrial standards are uniform under the purview of the ANSI and NIST. Prices for many goods are the same for the entire country.

Community of culture
People throughout the country typically specify "American" as their primary identity. The American flag is flown and displayed throughout the country, in private as well as public contexts. They often use words like "us" or "we" when referring to the actions of the federal government, or the historical actions and events of people or groups of people who lived in the country. They celebrate national holidays like the 4th of July and usually profess some belief in the principles of the Declaration of Independence and in the rights given in the federal Constitution.

Sounds like a nation to me.

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