where did this meme come from?
I've noticed that so many people talk about Rosa and dismiss her in broad strokes, without ever discussing her theory. In other words, it's time read and discuss.
The Russian Revolution
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Reform or revolution
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The Accumulaiton of Capital
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I'm reading, but that could take a while. Why don't you go ahead and start the discussion?
She's an Orthodox Marxist who put an emphasis on workers councils and rejected Lenin's democratic centralism. She influenced council communists but I really don't think she differs enough from other Second International Marxists to really justify having her own theoretical tradition. Luxemburgism basically only exists on the internet.
I've heard her accumulation of Capital was actually off the mark, though I can't really say not having read Capital yet.
I'm planning to read her essay 'Leninism or Marxism' pretty soon though, looking forward to it.
She was in no way a Kautskyite if that's what you're implying - pretty sure she agreed with Lenin on the state and she was obviously only for revolution to get to Socialism.
No. I just mean she's pretty in line with the program set forth by the Second International which Lenin had a major part of developing.
her theory is very appealing, libertarian socialism is the most palatable form of anticapitalism for me (probably because i'm still spooked by free speech and other such liberal delusions). her idea of an inevitable worker's uprising seems like deferring praxis in favor of the armchair, but since she literally died in a revolution i have some reservations about that critique.
She was very much in favour of a well organized and active socialist minority party to give guidance when mass strikes would occur. She just didn't think that you could force the whole mass strike movement. She was also for parliamentarism and reforsm insofar as these never became the focus of the movement where that should be direct struggle. Reform and elections should never be an end in itself and always play second fiddle. Armchair is the last thing you could put on her since I think pretty much everyone knows that a revolutionary situation is pretty close to impossible to force.
wtf the memes are true
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Because Luxembourg was a Trot, basically. And that's not a bad thing; this board has a completely uninformed and unnecessary hatred of Trots, without ever having actually read any Trotsky. If you read Luxembourg and agree with her, then you will read Trotsky and agree with him too. He actually echoes most of her politics, probably consciously. Luxembourg would have joined the 4th international, no question about it, had she lived to see it.
The only way for her to live is if her revolution was successful, she had already been arrested before this, so it was all or nothing.
If that happened, we wouldn't have needed a 4th international.
Nope.
Trots support both democratic centralism and the 'socialism through the state' bullshit that tankies push.
Luxemburg would have the exact same problems with Trots as she did Lenin.
NoTrot worth shit agrees with "socialism through the state" tankie crap. Trots take Lenin's position. Read state and revolution.
why
Nigga I've read it twice.
Trust me I'm in the IMT I spoke to the editor of their fucking newspaper only today and he basically said that but reworded.
Great that you've read State and Rev, but are you saying that the editor of the IMTs paper said that trots believe in "socialism through the state", or that they agree with Lenin's position? Post was not clear at all.
You realize Trotsky was the man that lead the Red Army in betraying Makho, crushing Kronstadt, and completely disenfranchising the Soviets? I don't think Luxembourg would've remained aligned with the 2nd International very long.
trips of truth
LOL, no thanks.
There was no betrayal. Both sides just stopped working with each other gradually as the absurdity of their "alliance" reached it's breaking point.
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Why should I lament the death of some petty-bourgeois uprising?
Soviets dominated by peasant reformist parties, yeah. The Russian Revolution never had an explicitly communist character until the Bolsheviks took power. If they didn't, today popular bourgeois history would market February as a triumph for democracy.
I hated the bolsheviks for disenfranchising the other parties until i read 10 Days That Shook the World. Lenin's only mistake was not doing it fast enough.
The Kronstadt rebellion was full of extremely loyal socialist soldiers, who had marched against Kerensky and even stormed the Winter Palace. They uprose, in part, because Lelnin crushed not only the Soviets, but all self management and socialist economy within the Russian jurisdiction. It's okay, though, being a Trot basically means you have to be historically illiterate, so we understand.
Trotsky was a Leninist, and Rosa disagreed with Lenin
I'm saying both Trots and Tankies advocate for 'Socialism through the state'. I guess that would imply Lenin did too, but I've never read Lenin speaking of anything of the sort. Maybe I haven't read enough Lenin, idk, but as I understood it, the workers themselves at the specific work places owned them, not every worker through the state.
As I understand it, Lenin crushed the soviets during the civil war, or at the very least during times when Russia needed all the production output they could get, and those specific soviets refused to take orders on what to produce from the state. Normally I could see this being bad but under Russia's conditions doing anything but was suicide - it's actually party what killed Catalonia. During the war times the workers didn't produce enough because there was no one telling them to. Again this isn't a problem during peace but, when are revolutions peaceful.
Goddamn I want her to punish me with that cane for saying Lenin is right about the principles of proletarian organization
The problem, as Luxemburg pointed out in her critique of the bolsheviks, was that many people didn't and still don't see what was done as a necessary step in those very specific circumstance, but rather as a general formula for all revolutions going forward.
I guess she was kind of right when you look at tankies and Trots today.
That doesn't mean what Lenin did was wrong, but she has a good point.