Social democracy as a good stepping stone towards American socialism thread

Social democracy as a good stepping stone towards American socialism thread.

Social Democracy: Because Not All Social Issues in capitalist America can be Solved by a Focus Group

Socialist rags today are written by petulant children. Most socialists are petulant children. Social democracy is clearly the next step in the evolution of our government and our economy, if we want a socialist outcome. It relies on rational data, not emotional outcry against a spook. It is highly efficient. Social democracy offers the best step into democratic socialism we could ever ask for, and it should appeal to everyone who hears its ideas. It is populist, after all.

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This is how Rosas of the world get murdered. Stop.

Pick one.

Wanna know what else relies on rational data? An in-kind calculator to plan out a FALC economy (shitty meme coopted by Reddit, I know, but it's useful). The fact is, all the material conditions are in place for an easy transition to full communism right this instant. It's just a question of will. We could have traveled to Mars long ago and ended world hunger before that even if humanity's priorities were in the right place.

Stop upholding this capitalist system. It has no more use but to fall so that communism can take its place. If it does not, it will destroy the world, one way or another.

OP here.
This is youthful idealism at work. You are asking too much of Americans. They need a system with "democracy" in the name. Our goals are the same. This is about fostering positive social change towards a government system with "social" in the name. Americans at large lack your sense of will, and mine. We have the same goals.

I mean, you're not wrong about how shitty the revolutionist left is, but in a bipartisan system where campaigns cost millions, the president itself is powerless and politicians are mostly a public board and PR department of its arms industry, social democracy is so unlikely that you might as well retreat into revolutionary fantasies and theoretical circlejerk.

This is youthful cynicism, and while it's somewhat more rational than idealism, it's still not totally true. America is still the country that elected Franklin D. Roosevelt, JFK and Jimmy Carter, and let's not forget Barack Obama. There must be an awakening from deep within our democratic hearts that we all do believe in democracy, and that neither the Democratic nor Republican party represents democracy.

You're losing subtlety user

Fuck off liberal.

Youthful idealism? The whole point of my ideas and Cockshott's is to create a change in material conditions so that no one needs to be convinced of anything, change just happens. Drop the smugness and irrational ideology already.

I used to be a social democrat until I realized that it is social democracy, and not revolutionary socialism, that is the idealism without basis in material reality.

Capitalism will never, ever give a real inch to the masses - it simply redistributes the misery elsewhere and undermines humanity as a whole. It must be destroyed before it kills billions of people. It's not a question of "can" or "should", but rather "must or die trying".

lmao

Capitalism can't be reformed to be more "human friendly". It must be done away with entirely.

I am not trolling or lying or anything. I'm a staunch supporter of social democracy.


Political memes don't determine my opinion as to what would work best to turn America into a socialist nation in the future.

My ideal vision of a social democratic America is one that uses consensus democracy rather than majoritarian democracy. Finding ways to agree on everything and be a team is legitimately how you win in real life. Landslide presidential elections by people who were truly brought together is how it should be. This 47.5%-47.7% majoritarian bullshit is driving us apart.


Revolutionary socialism is not based in material reality either for America. It's whiny and childish in America. Essentially grownups throwing temper tantrums and larping that they're intellectuals.


I do not subscribe to extremism.

Social democracy relies on parlamentarism, which is always a subject to corruption by capital. We should ofc work for social reforms, but not limit ourself to them. As long as there is no revolutionary movement, reforms is all we have to work with.

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I am talking about America specifically. The revolutionary sectors in America need severe work before I would ever want to associate with them again.

Then piss off back to the dems. We don't want you.

I project an air of confidence and you project one of childish indignation. Who do you think would be more popular, democratically speaking?

sage for fascism

"We were, and stayed, in all the full blood parliamentarians, that is, we talked about things, but they did, they mastered them. While concentration camps were already being built and many of our followers were shot dead we got into fierce struggle for seats."
[…]
[…]
Hoegner: "That clapped and snapped like a whip on our heads, that fell like a fierce fire on us."
Nevertheless, at the Reichstag meeting of May 17, 1933, the SPD, together with the NationaI Socialists, voted in favor of the program proclaimed by Hitler to remove the restrictions imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles ("equality of Germany"), which caused astonishment
[…]
But when Hitler began his speech, the comrades experienced a surprise. The new chancellor avoided any attack on the SPD, even for the Nazi opponent Hoegner sounded the speech "extremely moderate": "A more gentle peace speech could not have been held by Stresemann." When Göring called for the vote, the members of the SPD parliamentary group rose and voted in favor of the Reichstag declaration.
spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-40693632.html

Say hi to Trump for me.

Social democracy isn't a political ideology, it's organized crime.
They will create embed corruption on every state department, they will slash the budget for the national health service and force medics to wear the same gloves twice, they will buy every year a new bmw fleet, if 300k people leave the country because there are no jobs, they don't say it's an issue, they say it's an opportunity.
That's how socdems ruled my country, thankfully they aren't in power anymore

Just vote for libdems then.

There is no problem with pushing reforms when there is no revolutionary potential. Reforms form the basis for revolution. Read reform or revolution by rosa luxemburg.

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Okay, I'll take you seriously for a short moment. What makes you think that Social Democracy will help America? You can look towards Europe and see Scandinavia, who have the social cohesion to spend their tax money on this system. America doesn't, you can see this with them electing Trump. Even if Bernie was mildly popular. It doesn't change the fact that people can decide to change social democracy back into neoliberalism in the following election. And this is what happened in Germany, France and Britain. Sure they still have more welfare than America. It does however not change the amount of money people have. It only changes the hands who hold it. If people don't want to give money to government projects or welfare, they won't. It has nothing to do with changing anything. It is the same framework, but with more bureaucrats, instead of private companies.
The rich will either move away or create backroom deals to pay fewer taxes.
Not likely. Either Americans are egalitarian like the Scandinavians, or they are not. You can not condition them into helping the poor with political systems. It has never worked. And from a Hegelian perspective, it will never work. It will only cause resentment to the system and bring a return to neoliberal policies.
No, they won't. I live in Denmark. I benefit as much as I lose from the system. Some people are better off in this regard, but it is only really immigrants and those without a job. Minimum wage feels really oppressing in Denmark when you compare it to welfare given to those without a job. It was so bad that they lowered the amount of money the unemployed receive, to get people to work. Even students receive less than the unemployed. The poor mangement and bureaucratic clusterfuck creates resentment. And there will always be some degree of poor management.