Are all issues regarding shemales/traps idpol?

Yes.

traps are gay

Which isn't what being a tranny is.

No, of course not. Most are, but certainly not all.

smh, comrade.

10/10 comic. Is there more?

Yeah, it's the board's fault

Pretty fucking simple don't ya' think? Now if you're talking about working class trannies then yeah their issue with their relationship to the means of production isn't idpol.

ur gay faggit

No.

Materialism proves it.

Trans people exist because we know that male and female brains have different structures and when you give them an MRI trans people have the opposite gendered brain or at least somewhere in between.

We are all just giant hormone filled bloodsacks that have very little that is different about us.

No. But the issue itself is.

The issues they face are a mixture of legal hurdles, medical problems, and societal alienation. But to speak of these issues under the header of "trans" or "LGBBQWERty&" is to engage in idopl deviationism.

Yes
Traps will go to gulag

best timeline

...

I'm on a tablet fam, my trap folder is several miles away.

NoFunAllowed.jpg

just like homosexuals there's good traps and bad traps

stop promoting rape culture you sick fuck

I would argue their liberation it's a matter of justice and ethics really, you do just some research into the kind of lives trans people lead and it is pretty sad, you think is "just idpol" because you see people like Caitlyn Jenner or whatever who happen to be succesfull and loved by the mainstream media, but this is not even remotely how most trans people live, they are made invisible by the same MSM.

Basically this really , it is capitalism that enforces the gender binary to ensure that social reproduction of juicy living labor for capital to suck on, vampire like.

Liberal identity politics produced lots of condescending tolerance wave media content but few actual material or social improvements. The couple trans ppl I've met irl are nice and rather sympathetic to leftist ideas. You can get a really distorted/innacurate idea of people from exploitative or pandering media, so careful there.

OP, your images made me loose my sides
now go and find them

Traps are an endangered species and we must do all we can to protect them.

Yes, the art style improves as it goes on

imgur.com/a/norNY

Thanks famalam.

2 depressing for me famalam

oh boy, a trans thread!

Depends on your point of view regarding gender. If you're a fedora tipping positivist, you've probably decided that chromosomes are the only things that matter re gender (of which THERE ARE ONLY TWO WHICH YOUD KNOW IF U READ A BIOLOGY BOOK), and so trans issues are definitely idpol because they are not scientific/materialist. If you're a blue haired hamplanet with a poor understanding of judith butler, then you probably think that biological sex is a "social construct" (which in your slow wheezy mind probably means "not real" or "should not be real") and that gender identity has primacy, in which case trans issues are again definitely idpol.
Hopefully most of you realise that the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species and gender to some extent is based on these differences, but due to historical development the resultant gender differences don't always have a direct connection to the physical differences, which creates this apparent dichotomy between biological sex and social gender.
It's important to define gender because in previous definitions of gender by materialist feminists, women were defined by their oppression, which was entirely due to their ability to reproduce little proletarians being controlled by capital. There's a lot to be said for this conception of gender, but it leaves trans women (as well as any other women who for whatever reason are unable to have children) outside of the scope for liberation.
It would be if we were treating the categories of man and woman as purely idealistic ones arising from language or something more spooky. It's not idpol because we're linking these categories to their material origins.
Transwomen are male sexed persons who nevertheless feel themselves to be women. So although they do not have the ability of give birth, they are still able to represent enough secondary sex signifiers (clothes, voices, hair, hormones) to occupy the gender position of women and be oppressed in much the same way other women are.
I critique the identity itself as a product of bourgeois society, however I don't have issue with transwomen, who faced with a choice between two gender identities choose one rather the other.
Being trans isn't nice, it adds a whole layer of shittyness to being a wage slave. It's hard to explain, but imagine having to live your entire live inside a suit of deformed scarred skin which you could never take off, which warps all your words and stops you from being truthful to anyone and every night you dream yourself free of skin but when you wake up its back and heavier than ever and you're sweating underneath it and covered in rashes and boils but noone can see so you go about your life completely disconnected daydreaming about being run-over so maybe the paramedics will come and operate on you by the roadside and accidently cut off the skin-bag with scalpels. Trans people are often depressed, and depressed people don't make very good revolutionaries. Traditional therapy, counselling and drugs aren't effective, as the root of the problem seems to be deeper than psychological (there's no definitive answer, but the problem may be something to do with varying foetal hormone levels during pregnancy). Transition seems to be the only thing which has some sort of success, and since we want to improve the condition of all of our comrades, we should support transition for those who request it.

This is about where I stopped. Lurk more and google search words you don't know.

Yes.
In Socialism, you have mental illness, you go to doctor.
As long as you are socialy funcional you are fine.
Talking about it like serious issue is stupid capitalist diversion.

oooh. me likey.

Embarrassed traps are top tier.

you should have kept reading famalam, i was misrepresenting an opposing opinion to my own.

We have like 2 other threads on this holy shit stop pol

...

please dont use the term 'shemale', its offensive at least when used outside of a porn context

.>>1606584
LOL, nigga going socialist isn't going to magically "solve the trans issue"..

species is a fluid concept. hell, even biologists admit that. a wolf and a dog are different species, but they can still interbreed together,

Idpol, I assume, refers to identity politics.

I also used to subscribe to the idea that identity politics and class politics are completely different. However, I realize, class is just another form of identity. However, I recognize, there is a differentiator between class and other forms of identity.

In my opinion, we should leave psychology to the psychologists and the rest of us can focus on philosophy, political science and theory.

I'll say whatever I damn well please, idpol liberal.

holt shit, user. is this going to be the left wing equivalent of SJW CUCK now? Combatting LIBERALISM is fun, but lol

holy shit, this is depressing. I had to look this up to see if it was some transphobe's comics. Nah, this is legit..

When you are deep enough into transgenderism you realize it is pain and need to make jokes about yourself, else you go nuts

Reavan is that you? go back to twitter you trap faggot.

her comics are very painful

pffftttt

Cute.

All issues outside the class struggle ones are opportunistic distraction. Social issues are a consequence of material ones, not the other way around. Focus on the class struggle and anything else that comes up afterwards will be much easier to fix.
And I say this as one of those traps.

i wish all trannies believed in reincarnation

Tell that to this guy.

twitter.com/ComradeRevan

lel stopped reading there

The first step is to stop caring about irrelevant shitposters on twitter no-one gives a shit about user

>>>Holla Forums
>>>/liberty/

gross

I like that I'm being accused of having two diametrically opposed views.
I said that the biological differences are where the gender distinction arises from, but that nowadays this distinction doesn't bear any relation to the biology, which is why sex and gender can be viewed as separate things.

I don't think "gender" is real.

"Gender" here meaning the clothing, values, rituals, etc, assigned to whatever equipment you're packing between your legs. They're just social and cultural relations, not something hardcoded in your DNA. Trans people are just those who've correctly found that those assigned roles don't fit them, but incorrectly attributed it to being another "gender", rather than seeing that the whole concept of "gender" is just social fiction.

I haven't told this to any trans people and I have no idea how they'd react.

it's as if you escaped mormonism by becoming a christian. I guess your version of identity politics is better than what it was.

society should help all (this includes trans) people become themselves. also, it shouldn't oppress people because this prevents people from becoming themselves. it's irrelevant how many genders exist. it is irrelevant whether we now what causes transgenderism. it is irrelevant whether trans women are "real women" or not. its irrelevant what color of hair people choose to wear. for fuucks sake!

gender is probably less rigid than we believe, but still, although gender might not be real, it might be innate in how our brain understands possible mates or some other shit. Any way, research shows that being trans is not learned behavior, see

dear diary,
today I shitposted in rage when I saw 4 posts on trans issues in the same day.
cointelpro, reddit, mra, pol, I don't know what to believe anymore.
is this an attempt to spread propaganda in this board?
will we ever stop having this idiotic conversation?
-user

That's Gender Critical/Gender Abolitionist Feminism and most transfeminists will be triggered and call you a TERF. even though you're right and people that think gender critical=transphobic are retards

I've been called a transphobe for saying I'm not interested in MTF trans women
But I'm not attracted to women on the basis of "gender", I'm bisexual/asexual/pansexual - whatever - when it comes to the person on the inside. I'm attracted to the female form. Apparently you're a transphobe if you're willing to accept how someone feels about themself on the inside but not the fact they are physically male no matter how many pills you pop or appendages you cut off.

sexnotgender.com/brain-sex-does-not-exist/

I wasn't saying that trans is learned behavior, I was saying that gender is a social fiction and that trans people are those who've found that they don't fit within their assigned social category and have attributed this to belonging to another social category instead of realizing that these social categories are a cultural fiction.

This is what I was afraid of.

The only way to avoid being yelled at and ostracized with this gender shit is to be in lock-step agreement with whoever you're talking to at that moment. And if you're even slightly out of line of whatever orthodoxy you're supposed to be in at the time, you're immediately labeled a transphobe.

There's literally nothing wrong with being gender critical. It's the only coherent tendency in feminism, and it's not inherently 'trans exclusionary' see: slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/12/gender_critical_trans_women_the_apostates_of_the_trans_rights_movement.html

How can you tell?

It's not that they don't like things that are typical of their gender, it's that they feel they are another gender and that their body isn't theirs.

I don't know what that even means.

If it's not the cultural trappings of gender, then what is it? Is it like one of those things like how veterans feel like they still have an arm even after it was blown-off/amputated, only they feel like they have a hole in their groin only to find a sausage whenever they check (or vice versa)? What does it even mean to be in the "wrong body"?

How can somebody know that they are another biological gender when they can't fully know or experience that gender reality? They can only know and experience exterior (aesthetic and cultural) attributes, the most of which are constructs.

Also this:

Sage in all fields. These faggots hurt communist movement more than right wing ever could.

Well what do you mean by "gender reality"? Is not the way women experience being a women through cultural and aesthetic attributes?

puberty, menstruation, pregnancy, menopause for example

If you didn't view every facet of society as a set of pliers to metaphorically trap your balls between them, it might be as obvious as it seems.

As I have been explained, it feels precisely like being "in the wrong body". Because no feeling can be explained with words, it will never be fully comprehensible to those who don't experience it. This however, is no grounds for dismissal, or the blind should declare us all trapped in societies trappings of vision for entertaining incomprehensible things like "seeing".

Why is it depended upon those conditions?

Yes.

So you either you won't explain it or you can't explain it. How can a person possibly feel that they're in the "wrong body" without relating back to the cultural standards around gender. Their own body is the only one they've ever lived in, they've never experienced living in another body, so how do they know that their own body is the "wrong" one?

Surely it must be through society. They see more of themselves in another gender identity than the one they were assigned.

No, I can't explain a feeling.

Because it's not merely that they want to do things that don't match their own gender. Since they aren't the only person they know of, of course it's related to culture, but the same can be said of every other mental condition.

Why should one have to experienced having another body to feel they're in the wrong one?

There was an experiment done to prove you theory, by raising a boy as a girl and never telling him differently. He ended feeling exactly as transgender people feel.

"gender identity" is SJW's creating a cargocult based on the condition of transgenderism. You are conflating the two.

Because you haven't experienced any other body to know that yours is the "wrong" one. The only way to infer what it might be like to be another sex is through the cultural myths about gender.

No, this perfectly fits in with my theory about gender. A cultural standard was presented to him, he found that the standard didn't fit him, so he felt gender dysphoria.

This is my point. Society creates various standards of dress, values, social interaction, rituals, etc, not everyone can fit so easily into these standards, but remain within the mythos surrounding gender, instead of realizing that gender is merely a cultural fiction. So obviously what you end up with is this "thousand different genders" crap because people are simply describing themselves, but within the doctrine of gender.

This isn't necessary, because the knowing is in the missmatch between brain and body, as the experiment designed to prove your theory showed, a boy who never experienced another body still saw himself as a boy and didn't feel his body matched that, the male body that was denied to him feeling like a phantom limb.

No, because your theory is that gender is taught as a set of cultural standards. His body didn't fit him, because his mind was still masculine. Like human comes before human culture, and is the base of it, gender comes before gender standards and is the base of it also.

Or you must be proposing that if this experiment was done on a 10.000 boys, only one of them would be transgender, as that is the ratio of transgenderism.

It isn't merely about preferring something that is typically male or female, it is about being male of female. You get the thousand of different genders crap, not because of what you describe, or they should have been there all along, but because SJW'ism injects itself in conditions.

If gender were merely fiction, there would be no gender differences in behavior observable from the earliest stages of infancy.

1) What exactly is a "male" or "female" mind? What exactly characterizes the male mind versus the female mind that they ought to be considered different entities that somehow can end up in the "wrong body"?

2) Was this boy in this experiment kept in complete isolation? You know, not merely raised as a girl, but kept apart from society so he had no opportunity to come into contact with "male" cultural standards?

3) You seem to be arguing against a strawman. My claim was never that behavior is 100% learned, but rather that certain social and cultural norms are associated with different genders, and if one' down natural tendencies differ from that model, people begin to associate with the other model that they feel fits them better. But these cultural norms are merely social fictions, they don't define sex.

Also, was this boy given a full sex change and hormone therapy, or was he simply raised as a girl? If the latter, then the dysphoria couldn't be coming from being in the "wrong body", because he was in a male body the whole time, but rather from having a cultural standard enforced on him that didn't fit his own personality.

I don't get it.

This is not a case of exact definitions. It would be like asking how exactly pain feels like, and then concluding it is just as a societal construct when there is none.

No. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

Your claim rests on the premise that people who are transgender simply prefer things that are characteristic of the other gender, this is not the case with transgenders. This claim stems from the theory that states that gender is taught, from which the conclusion would be that David Reimer wouldn't feel exactly like a transgender, but as a girl, or you must claim that he was only a 1 in 10000 case of change, as this is more or less the ratio of transgenders in the population.

Here's a good norwegian documentary on this ideology and how it deals with it's contradictions youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70

If you're a "cis"male who represses their desires to be the other sex, you live in constant fear that someone will out you as the disgusting tranny deviant you are based on minute differences in the way you act. In the comic this fear becomes realised, but the person doing the outing was actually acting indiscriminately and so the humour comes from the repressed tranny outing themselves unnecessarily.
Not the funniest joke ever, but it appeals to a very specific audience.

Right to the gulag

lol we got TERFs in this thread

No it's not; the classification is.

...

So you don't know what "maleness" is, you don't know what "femaleness" is, and you refuse to describe either. You know, people can have a deep, genuine feeling that they're in touch with divine and/or spiritual entities, that doesn't mean said entities are real. People can genuinely deeply feel something that isn't actually true.

I never claimed this. You keep knocking this strawman down, even after I explain, again and again, that this isn't something I'm claiming.

How come there is so little class analysis of trans movements? Does anyone else find it suspicious that it's mostly men transitioning to female when women receive more benefits and protections from capitalism than men? or that developing world trans people are usually just prostitutes who can make more money that way?

Ahh, ok. Makes sense. I was going to say, shit's uh depressing. Makes sense, like that dragon joke and whatnot. Or how people made attack helicopter jokes before they got…appropriated.

who dat nigga? also, im not exactly a trap :(

given one can browse /r/genercritical and see a bit of transphobia there, it's not exactly surprising people will conflate you with that…

And you think biologists who determine sex are magically immune from the same social factors which lead to those classifications of species?

AFAIK MTF and FTM is about even in numbers.

we should't make such a big issue out of it, but most of is idpol

but of course trans people should have their rights

They're both around 50/50, you just hear about MTFs more because it's a media hot potato.

Forgot to add this.
It's not like that there is no class analysis in trans movements. It's just that a trans movement is not the place to do class analysis. You wouldn't discuss maths in an English class for instance.
Outside of those spaces most trannies will just blend in and not mention it unless under very specific circumstances (ie. what this thread is about) and discuss whatever the dominant topic is. In the case of Holla Forums that would be class analysis, but the opportunists are here shilling distractions at all force.

These days transmen are actually starting to outnumber transwomen, most notably in the last US transgender survey. And most of them are enbies to.

on their original birth certificate, and 43% had
male on their original birth certificate. Of those
who were non-binary, 80% had female on their
original birth certificate, and 20% had male on
their original birth certificate.

transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS Full Report - FINAL 1.6.17.pdf

get ready for mass qt fem transmen

I mean… A lot of people consider this idpol too. Any discussion about it for that matter

It is idpol. Trans is a complete non-issue. It's like children playing pretend. Trans people bitching about being able to use the bathroom does absolutely nothing towards class struggle.

Oh God no.

I was born ready, Kaneda

Women more likely to fall for a wild new trend? Shocking.

yeah, its not a real sexual orientation and its not a real social issue. its a mental health issue

hey, great post. if you're interested, I'd really recommend this article: e-flux.com/journal/32/68246/sexual-difference-and-ontology/

when you said
i got heavily reminded of zupancic's argument here. while it's a 'psychological' take on sexuality, it's operating on a much more fundamental level than some kind of cognitivist approach

This is really interesting actually. My local LGBT scene seems to have at least 10:1 ratio of MTF:FTM. I'd be tempted to say it's just because FTM usually pass WAY easier than MTF so you don't notice but at events people where this shit (sometimes literally) on their sleeve and that ratio holds.

Maybe passing FTM just don't like the scene as much because they can basically live as mostly slightly weedy looking guys so don't feel the need for the community? That and the scene is fucking toxic and filled with shitheads.

Jesus Christ I hope a lot of the replies to this are jokes.

Having an identity is not inherently idpol. Having a minority identity is not inherently idpol. Making conscious decisions about your own identity, is not inherently idpol. Individual people cannot be idpol; only their political positions.

Most members of the LGBT community are working class, or youth that will ultimately become working class adults. The specific issues of any section of the working class should be addressed, but when a section sees its specific issues as unrelated to the rest of the problems of the working class as a whole, when it rejects class in its analysis, then it is idpol.

Pretty much agree with your post but

I really wish people would stop using this phrase. You'd be surprised how little the letters of the acronym have to do with each other outside of (often uneasy) political alliances and corporate sponsored events. There is little to no shared culture or history between L, G and T and they can often actually be extremely insular. Between immersing themselves in gay male or lesbian 'communities' or just sticking with broader 'hetero' society, B usually just picks one.

What little you could actually call "LGBT community" that is more than just liberal fantasy is sanitized, commodified and bourgeois af

Fair enough, maybe I should have said "people who are L,G,B or T" rather than "the LGBT community"

It wasn't a criticism of you, pretty much everybody uses it that way, especially when they're talking politics. Just a bugbear of mine because people seem to have this image of some kind of ultra-inclusive puppies and rainbows hugspace where everyone ~accepts you for who you are~ when the reality is that "LGBT+" has always been a matter of political expedience.

At least be genuine and say you just don't care

Sexual minorities seems like the best catch-all.

Not what I said. Species will still exist, the concept is not fluid just because the classification can be.

My computer exists regardless of whether or not I can tell if it's a computer. Words will change nothing.

Why are the majority of trannies MTF?

Is it xenoestrogens in the water and food?

Wouldn't surprise me tbh, it had crossed my mind. Look how long it took them to own up to tetraethyllead

we've already had

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phthalate
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phthalate#Table_of_the_most_common_phthalates
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate

the endocrine disruptors been in plastics for the better half of a century, it's no wonder we're seeing hormonal problems in youth

My take, there are 2 sexes, with the occasional intersex person born, but that exception is a genetic mishap.
We use either male, female, or neutral pronouns to refer to people. Some claim said pronouns are sex derived, others claim they are gender derived. why do we base pronouns on sex?
Gender is frequently stated to mean the social, behavioral and mental conventions a person desires to express. Many of these forms of expression are more commonplace in one sex than another, thus said behaviors are considered masculine or feminine.
The argument the two sides get into is pointless, side A says "you can't be a different sex, there are only 2, and you were born with xx/xy chromosones" whilst side B says "I express myself like many typical males/females, thus my gender is different".
Takeaway; Gender a spook, dress and act how you want.

I also don't see inherent harm in body modification.

wow finally someone who isn't a retard

I want to bring home traps to fuck, but I can't afford to move out.

Is that idpol?

no, that's just Holla Forums

This is basically my life anyway, fuck you
The rest was reasonable.

Yes
Traps will be sent to gulag

To be used as comfourt women to the others? ~

No, to turn into real women.

Wanting to fuck traps and being poor is Holla Forums?