How does Marxism explain the Nazis?

There wasn't a whole lot of economic rationale to much of what they did. You can explain neocon imperialism, jingoism as rational conquest of markets and resources of usually inferior people who can't fight back effectively. You can even explain ISIS. But the Nazis declared war on the UK France and later the USSR and America st the same time, there was no way they could win and it was completely irrational. They also had an irrational completely autisitc genocidal agenda. You can't explain that using Marxism

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=1XJhZVmORlM
mccaine.org/2010/03/12/what-was-nazi-germany/
international.uiowa.edu/sites/international.uiowa.edu/files/file_uploads/japan_in_tokugawa_period_and_modernity.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangaku
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Investigation_of_Global_Policy_with_the_Yamato_Race_as_Nucleus
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_(Nazism)
libcom.org/library/auschwitz-big-alibi
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Welcome to Nazism.

I remember there was a thread here a while back talking about Mussolini, and his transition from being an anti-imperialist Socialist into pretty much inventing Fascism, and how Mussolini effectively subverted Marxism, and used its theory for the bourgeoisie instead of the proletariat.

Part of the problem however with such radical right wing populist nationalism, is that one needs to always have an an enemy to fight against, by the nature of the ideology itself. Hitler is pretty much the immediate slippery slope fallacy of that where you go, "well lets declare was on everyone else around us."

This wisecrack video actually covers the ideological issues of Nazism and Fascism rather well: youtube.com/watch?v=1XJhZVmORlM

Marx wasn't right about everything and marxism doesn't really look at idpol as a serious historical force.

It was an alliance of an increasingly obsolete military aristocracy and the bourgeoisie threatened both by the economy-destroying penalties levied on them by the Allies and an increasingly discontent working class. The aristocracy for their part was reacting to their imminently threatened position after WW1 where the large central empires were broken up and began to modernize, jettisoning their feudal upperclasses in the process. The bourgeoisie on the other hand were crippled by both the indemnities the defeated countries owed to the Allies, but also the economic depression that ensued. Both in turn were threatened by the working class, not the very least because of the Soviet Union right next door and the fate it imposed on the former Russian aristocracy. It was a natural confluence of class interests.

Mechanized warfare obviously had changed what was "rational" or "irrational" about warfare. France tried to fight WW1 over again and was crushed in a matter of weeks, and Britain nearly had its army annihilated on the beaches of the English Channel. Hitler's strategic ineptitude played a significant role in Germany's ultimate failure, but his generals innovated significantly on the ideas of modern warfare.

As for the economic aspect, it makes perfect sense for this reactionary alliance, lagging so far behind both in terms of empire and the material benefits thereof and total economic "market share" to wipe out or attempt to wipe out, or when possible absorb by force, all the other major industrial economies. You can see the material effects of that kind of destruction with the United States after WW2 and the economic hegemony it enjoyed because every other major industrial economy on the planet had either been bombed to rubble or significantly damaged.

Furthermore, the Axis's conflict with the United States was a direct result of the economic sanctions imposed on Japan by the US, who in particular threatened the US's domination of the Pacific as well as that of its ally, Britain.

Yeah, that's true. If anything its a result of the Fascists' rejection and paranoia of Marxism and its bases, going full on ideological idealism, turning to the bourgeois concept of "the nation" to create a unifying superstructure for the classes instead of the reality of material relations.

Take that flag off.

Hitler was just a fucking autistic LARPer who jerked off to German history who even wanted to colonize Crimea because there were some stray Goths hanging around there a millennium before. He was only allowed to run around because he was a textbook useful idiot. Did anybody read the Nazi plans for New World Order? They sound like something from a fucking fantasy book.

Although pursuing an alliance based on Realpolitik with Imperial Japan in the battle against the "Western Plutocracies" and Soviet Bolshevism, the Nazi leadership ultimately considered this cooperation only temporary in nature. The racial ideology of Nazism predicted that the fate of human civilization depended on the ultimate triumph of the Germanic-Nordic peoples, and in fact the populous Asian continent was seen as the greatest threat to hegemony of the white race. The Japanese people were characterized as 'culture-bearers', meaning they could make use of the technological and civilizational achievements of the Aryan race and by so doing maintain an advanced society, but could not truly create 'culture' themselves.[119] Gerhard Weinberg asserts that the historical evidence points to the conclusion that Hitler, like he had done with the Soviets in the 1939-1941 period, employed a tactic of conceding to the Japanese whatever they desired until they in turn could be defeated in a subsequent war.[120] In early 1942, Hitler is quoted saying to Ribbentrop: "We have to think in terms of centuries. Sooner or later there will have to be a showdown between the white and the yellow races."[121]
(…)
During his speech at the meeting of SS major-Generals at Posen on 4 October 1943, Heinrich Himmler commented on the future conflicts between Nazi-controlled Europe and Asia:
Himmler addressed this apocalyptic vision in an earlier speech given to SS generals at the University of Kharkiv, Ukraine in April 1943. He first spoke on the necessity of the war against the USSR and Jewry:

This.

The lolcom flag? I used it for shitposting and forgot I still had it

That never happened! UK and France declared war on Germany after it, along with the USSR, invaded Poland. Germany offered the UK a very good peace offer (much better than the offer given to Poland, who refused it since they naively thought their "allies" wouldn't watch them die from afar), which the crown kept hidden from their subjects to keep the war going.
The USSR had plans to invade Germany, I think it was operation thundersomething but can't recall the name. The German preemptive strike was only three weeks before the Soviet invasion would take place. If Germany had kept its troops in the West the Soviet attack would have steamrolled Germany and all the conquered territories. No idea if the Soviets would be able to defeat the Allies then, who undoubtedly would declare war on the USSR.

The US was already in the war. It had pilots in China, had blocked Japan, sent arms to everyone on the Allies side, lent a lot of money to the brits and even froze Axis' assets in the US. Pearl Harbor wasn't an unprovoked attack.

Nazbol is a shitposting flag. Leftcoms actually read books and wouldn't have to make stupid threads like you do, OP.

Keep it under 2 paragraphs on this board, if you can't get your point across under a hundred characters, then it didn't mean shit in the first place.

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mccaine.org/2010/03/12/what-was-nazi-germany/

I don't know m80, those quotes do sound pretty dank.

the material causes for fascism were the outcome of WW1, the Versailles treaty and so on.
what's the problem?

Dumb and proud.

I think the problem is that OP wanted us to do his homework for him

Fuck you buddy. This is a great thread. I'd say it's in the top ten of all current bumped threads which range from Bill Maher's revolutionary potential, gay Nazbols, NEETs, alt right video games and other retarded shit.

All the flags are shitposting flags you unbelievable dolt.

No it didn't, Victor Suvorov is a hack.

I expected more of you

Yeah, Hitler didn't want war, he just wanted Czechoslovakia, the Baltics, Poland and Russia for free.

why all this revisionism?

But thats a 76.2mm F-34, designed and built by soviets

Are you joking? Nazis went on huge debt to quickly prop up German industry and infrastructure (and people's welfare), then started a war to (i) avoid paying it back and (ii) loot other countries for resources and workpower.

It makes perfect sense. It might have failed miserably, but our 20/20 hindsight does not make it irrational.

Anti-Jew propaganda was a successful redirection of an anti-capitalist sentiment. It went homicidal and completely insane due to usual dangers of groupthink in totalitarian society, but the initial reasons for it are perfectly explainable.

I sure see no class interest behind this whatsoever.

H-hitler was g-going to elevate t-the German race! Marxism i-is not real socialism! C-CUK!

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If you pay attention to the flag rather than the post you're a fucking retard. Any flag can be an excuse to shitpost except Marx head

Sure, i'm sure Lebensraum in Mein Kampf was only ironic shitposting.

Nazis were backed by proles who thought they were the bourgeois, because they were the biggest fish in their tiny pound of a village.

It is so bloody obvious where I live. The more rural the region is, the more support the Nazis had.

Also obvious in who the Nazis sent to represent them in the Reichstag. Only 8 workers at all. So Arbeiterpartei? Nix da!

Wrong
Stalin never planned to invade and was shocked when the germans started the invasion

Buts thats wrong, Britain and France declared war on germany for reclaiming land that was taken from it after the first world war.
Germany did attack the USSR but didn't formally declare war, The reason from what I see it was because of it's expansion into some of the eastern countries and feared betrayal.
America while supplying the allies only got into the war officially when the japanese attacked them thus making them war against germany in proxy because of the axis alliance.

France and Britain had repeatedly warned Germany not to invade Poland, and Germany did it anyway.

Why would the germans of listened to them, they repeatable appeased them, if they had held strong in the beginning it would of shown them they were serious.

I bet that the bolshevik party consisted of 90% of jews and proceed to kill millions upon millions of ethnic russians and ukrainians is also nazi propoganda :^)

Protip: When researching history go for the source material, i.e newspaper reports or communications that date from the actual period in question, not the fucking trial the victors held after the war

More on the subject at 11!

No plans to invade at any point, except he just fucking curbstomped (except for finnland) 4 separate countries that Russia held non-aggression treaties with at the start of the war out of nowhere for seemingly no reason, it's not like the USSR had global communist expansion as one as its goals xD

The Nazis were fucking mental, but *they* thought they were being rational. They literally did not believe in the same reality we do and pursued occult bullshit while dismissing science as "Jewish"

So you're simply contending that they were Jewish supremacists without evidence?

the brits didn't even dislike the nazis, they weren't trying to appease them out of pragmatism

The Poland and Russia part is straight out wrong.

The goal of nazi germany was to unite all ethnic germans under one country. Czechoslovakia and Austria joined voluntarily (in terms of popular support, not in government obviously). The germans living in pre ww1 german territory (Prussia) were persecuted, nazi germany tried to diplomatically solve the situation. When that failed germany declared war, and the rest is history.

Apart from that they did not have expansionist goals. After the swift occupation of France they tried multiple times to seek peace with both Britain and France on very generous terms, i.e no land annexation. Most of you are going to shriek nazi propoganda at this because you've been fed a lie your entire life that the nazis basically wanted to FFA the whole world for territorial gains and genocidial fun, which is a fucking retarded notion in itself but I digress.


TLDR version of how WW2 actually started, you're very welcome to research the validity of these claims, but remember it's always easier to just disregard it all as nazi propoganda.

Certain elite segments ( :^) ) in France and Britain wants war with germany because they abandoned central banking with debt based currency production, really bad business if other countries follow suit (also what Libya and Iraq had plans for in recent times, but unfortunately democracy was swiftly delivered, just a coincidence I guess considering who won the war :^) )

Britain guarantees Poland, which in the 1930's is a military dictatorship with delusions of grandeur, i.e they had aspirations to restore the greater Poland-Lithuanian commonwealth of the 1600's (In 1938 they militarily annexed parts of Lithuania, obviously none of the allies cared).

There is a sizeable german minority in Poland living in pre WW1 german territories. They were generally discriminated against, but in the months leading up to WW2 this intensifies and discrimination turns into murder and persecution.

Germany tries to resolve the situation diplomatically, one amongst several proposals included rejoining Prussia with mainland Germany whilst also leaving Poland with a land corridor so they can maintain sea access.

Poland, under the guise that its allies (Britain and by extension France) will actually help them in the event of war, gets ballsy and denies all attempts at solving the situation. The persecution intensifies, and several border incidents play out.

Germany finally declares war, meanwhile the USSR also decides to invade Poland (along with the baltic countries and Finnland), Poland asks the allies for help with both attackers but war is only declared on Germany, because the allies never gave two shits about Poland apart from using them as a patsy to give casus belli against Germany.

Did the moon landings happen? Are nuclear bombs real or was it propaganda/kabbalaistic occult wizardry? Was queen Victoria an alien? Was the American civil war real or was it just the biggest civil war (re-)enactment in history?

Hit me with your best shot, I'm ready to get redpilled.

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How does that have anything to do with Hitler starting or not starting WWII?
The Bolshevik party being 90% jewish seems pure bs to me. Do you have any source on that?

Imperialism Ain't So Fun When It's In Your Own Continent 2: Revenge of the Spook

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I really don't know what am I doing with my life tbh. that was an excuse

That's always a popular one. Look at the evil Czechoslovakian machine, just getting ready to bomb Germany any second!

No, it isn't. Hitler repeatedly claimed he wanted Poland and Russia for years, why do you ignore this?

Then why did they break the Munich agreement and annexed the rest of Czechoslovakia, which wasn't ethnically german? Hitler then kidnapped their president while the Wehrmacht invaded Czechoslovakia, and threatened to bomb it if he didn't surrender, so how can you claim they joined voluntarily? And even in Austria there were 20,000 arrests the day Hitler took over, and tens of thousands more were tortured or robbed.

Too bad Hitler's foreign policy is the definition of expansionism. And he wanted peace with Britain so he could destroy the Soviet Union without hassle, not to mention Hitler's definition of "peace" was on his own terms having seized Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland.

It's true though, the Japanese practically gave up their culture (entirety of the Edo period) in favour of German-inspired institutions that when stretched to their logical conclusions, would involve an eventual confrontation between their powers. This is what imperialism does.

international.uiowa.edu/sites/international.uiowa.edu/files/file_uploads/japan_in_tokugawa_period_and_modernity.pdf
court noble Iwakura Tomomi (1825–1883), toured the United States and Europe to see
the modern West for themselves. They and others of their ilk resolved to remake all
Japanese institutions on the Western model. By 1900 the treaties had been revised and
Japan was a highly centralized, Prussian-style constitutional monarchy, with a conscript
military, universal education, a capitalist economy, and the beginnings of a colonial
empire

The japs are the only non whites smart enough to realize their system was garbage and adopted white style colonialism, which lead to them taking over all of asia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangaku

The japs themselves where imperialists who thought of the Japaneses as the father of asia and the rest of asia as their silly children who needed to be slapped around once in a while.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Investigation_of_Global_Policy_with_the_Yamato_Race_as_Nucleus

An Investigation of Global Policy with the Yamato Race as Nucleus (大和民族を中核とする世界政策の検討, Yamato Minzoku o Chūkaku to suru Sekai Seisaku no Kentō?) was a secret Japanese government report created by the Ministry of Health and Welfare's Population Problems Research Center, and completed on July 1, 1943.

The document, comprising six volumes totaling 3,127 pages, deals with race theory in general, and the rationale behind policies adopted by wartime Japan towards other races, while also providing a vision of Asia under Japanese control.[1]

The document was written in an academic style, surveying Western philosophy on race from the writings of Plato and Aristotle to modern German social scientists, such as Karl Haushofer. A connection between racism, nationalism and imperialism was also claimed, with the conclusion, drawing by citing both British and German sources, that overseas expansionism was essential not only for military and economic security, but for preserving racial consciousness. Concerns pertaining to the cultural assimilation of second and third generation immigrants into foreign cultures were also mentioned

However, where the document deviated from Nazi ideology was in its use of Confucianism and the metaphor of the patriarchical family. This metaphor, with the non-Japanese Asians serving as children of the Japanese,[4] rationalized the "equitable inequality" of Japanese political, economic, and cultural dominance.[7] Just as a family has harmony and reciprocity, but with a clear-cut hierarchy, the Japanese, as a purportedly racially superior people, were destined to rule Asia "eternally" as the head of the family of Asian nations.[8] The term "proper place" was used frequently throughout the document.[5]

The document left open whether Japan was destined eventually to become head of the global family of nations

As for the nazis they wanted more living space

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum

Basically "we are racially superior, this is our land now"

Actually hitler had plans to take over the entire world.
They are pretty fun to read about.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_(Nazism)

wew, lad, etc

Germans even thought they were culture vultures

Hitler was going to let Australia get riced.

Germany's former colonial possessions in the Pacific (German New Guinea and German Samoa), which had been allocated to Japan after World War I as C-Class Mandates according to the Treaty of Versailles, were to be sold to Japan (both Weimar and Nazi-era Germany never relinquished claims to their pre-war colonial territories) at least temporarily in the interest of the Tripartite Pact, its alliance with that country.[54] Australia and New Zealand were designated as future Japanese territories, although Hitler lamented his belief that the white race would disappear from those regions.[55] He nevertheless made it clear to his officials that "the descendants of the convicts in Australia" were not Germany's concern and that their lands would be colonized by Japanese settlers in the immediate future, an opinion also shared by Joseph Goebbels, who expressed his conviction in his diary that the Japanese had always desired "the fifth continent" for emigration purposes.[56] In his only recorded lengthy discussion on the subject he argued that its people still lived in trees and had not yet learned to walk upright

How do Holla Forums weebs reconcile their viewpoint with this information?

Anime is based off of Disney cartoons anyways

anime is based off disney cartoons.
cosplay was invented when a jap went to america and saw americans dressing up like robots at a scifi convention.
Japan completely westernized itself and conquered the whole of asia
The japs have been reinterpreting western culture this whole time when you realize it.

Whose the weaboo now……

So then they would be better off watching old Disney cartoons instead of cartoons made by an inferior, degenerate culture right? I still don't get how they could possibly reconcile their views without some serious cognitive dissonance.

Man, do you even know anything about nazism.

But the source that guy was quoting was implying that Hitler saw them as a threat that he would have to deal with later in the interests of the Aryan race but temporarily would ally himself with. You shouldn't gorge yourself on media from such a country then.

Unironically read Bordiga

libcom.org/library/auschwitz-big-alibi

While we're talking about Japan carbon-copying the world, back when the were industrializing and Westernizing, socialists hailed them as a nation seting itself up to resist encroaching European colonialism. Boy did that one backfire.

Not written by Bordiga, but a decent piece tackling the leftoid tendency to view the Holocaust as an event consequent of Hitler and the NSDAP just really hating Jews, rather that there is a materialist cause related to capitalism.

Anti-semitism and the Holocaust are a part of OP's question but have little to do with why Nazist fascism happened and why it imperialized.

Thanks for this, it was great. I can't help but wonder if it's the same logic at work now for cutting access to healthcare etc, even in the face of threats like Zika.