E-celeb vs. e-celeb

Sargon is fucking trouncing Destiny. Destiny is arguing for open borders and social democracy and 🍀🍀🍀growing the economy🍀🍀🍀. Sargon is failing to drive home (through no fault of his own) that the economy != helping the people at the bottom of society and that a lack of immigration will drive up wages, helping the bottom.

Basically Destiny wants to pay off the poor to grow the economy and Sargon doesn't care about growing it as much as long as people get paid more.

Now Sargon is pointed out that slavery grew the economy and Destiny is trying to argue for not oppressing the slaves. Pretty hilarious logical conclusion to the argument.

Meh he can be turned around. He sort of doubled down on "I don't even know enough about communism but calling it as bad as fascism seems retarded" in his latest videos. I say someone go on his stream to debate "globalism" as a real leftist and bring up rdw style arguments against capitalism.

Well at least now that he's debatong Destiny I have a good excuse to ask Sargon about our debate now that he apprnetly no longer has irl stuff preventing him from doing so.

Honestly Sargon is so high up on my shitlist I'm upset if he is "winning" even if it's against retarded lib talking points. I need anyone to come out of the woodwork and slap the smug off that fat pedant's face

so his reply was "look i'm smart i know some things that communists say"? and that's it? nice dodge, kek

Just would've replied "idpol is cancer, left and right, culture wars perpetuate capitalist rule, idealism doesn't change shit."

Holy shit, it's moved onto sweatshops and state capitalism, and Destiny is wondering why people "choose" to work there if it's so much worse than before globalisation. Earlier on Destiny was snapping at Sargon because Sargon said cheaper iPhones wasn't equivalent to a cost of living increase.

Fucking kek Destiny is sheltered, at least when Sargon is arguing earnestly rather than pandering his politics are socially conscious.

Destiny has devolved into sarcastically laughing at Sargon because Sargon doesn't rate the human cost for cheaper products involved in India and China.

And now Destiny is calling Sargon a communist because he's arguing for helping workers.
This whole debate is a shitshow, it's a literal slapfight between retards.

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Yeah I didn't say I'm pro destiny, I'm just anti "Sargon getting an ego boost". Also, this argument may be the most emblematic of the idea that intelligence and intelligent ideas =\= good debater. Those guys are both probably above average in putting their thoughts to words and quick responses, but their ideas are so, so bad it's embarrassing

If Sargon had said that anywhere outside this autistic debate he would have committed career suicide just now.

Both of them are arguing for capitalism, it's only Sargon is a confused aut-righter.

Sargon is arguing for capitalism with a human face while Destiny is literally arguing for sweatshops.

Yeah but in the context that they're both arguing for capitalism, Destiny is absolutely right. The Sargon/alt-right version of capitalism is a fucking fairy tale and purely wishful thinking mixed with delusion.

Of course, arguing for capitalism at all makes you an idiot or a greedy piece of shit but Destiny style exploitation is absolutely the only way the system works

"Bring slavery back and build concentration camps for immigrants." – Destiny

I hope this debate destroys them both and hurts their careers

When does the debate start?

More proof that most so-called liberals are closet conservatives that would gladly have the poor starve as long as "the economy" "grows".

You have a really optimistic view of how Internet fanbases work. Also, only one of them basis his career on his ability to debate anyway.

This pissed me off.

And this is why liberals should get gulaged. Its either they or us. Worker is the greatest victim of modern social democracy. Socdem apologists, that try to use fascism as an excuse to accept socdem values, are playing into the hand of the enemy, they expect you to do that.

Destiny is for capitalism with a human face though. He's arguing for globalism and distributing wealth to lower classes, he's Bernie style soc. dem. Sargon is just regurgitating alt-right talking points and wants everyone to suffer under retarded Trump policies.

If they're both arguing for capitalism, they're both arguing for sweatshops. You're being bias. Also, capitalism is a necessary step in human development, sweatshops are better than starving to death. Sargon is trying to take the moral high ground here.

At least Destiny is willing to talk to communist. Sargon pretends he's going to debate communist on twitter.

He's not shitting on blue collar workers, he's saying people don't generally aspire to be construction workers. He's repeated this like three times and said he use to do blue collar work.

clips.twitch.tv/SavageScrumptiousGrouseLeeroyJenkins

Someone get Muke to debate this guy.

So Destiny pushed Jontron's shit in, and Sargon pushed Destiny's shit in. Who should push Sargon's shit in to get this daisy chain going?

Ok I just got around to watching this and Sargon was so consummately retarded that I'm baffled anyone thinks Destiny came away from this looking as bad as JonTron did. Am I being trolled?

Reality

destiny is a libshit but it is literally impossible to lose a debate to sargon if you are not completely retarded

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The impression I'm getting after watching the DesTron vid is that because JonTron said all the necessary alt-right (or whatever you want to call it) "facts" Destiny "lost," because "you can't argue with facts."

That's sort of the point I'm getting at. Sargon only won if you are a pretentious, pedantic fuck who wants nothing more than pedantry in a debate. There was seriously one point where Sargon went on a long-ass spiel where he made implications about how he believes society works, then Destiny stopped him to say "but that's not how society works, and Sargon responded with "but I didn't say that's how society works". Just repeat that infinitely where Sargon makes retarded claims and walks them back as not "technically" what he said and that's the whole debate.

That's why I want to see someone like the Chapo guys take him on. Dude doesn't deserve a reasoned, good-faith debate. He should just be derided as a drooling pedant and there should seriously be a buzzer every time he makes a lazy reference to a logical fallacy he doesn't actually understand.

Anyway, in case it wasn't obvious I fucking hate Sargon.

Chapo mentioned Sargon briefly on their show. They were planning on doing an episode about Sargon, but they said even they aren't that masochistic to watch his videos or streams in their entirety.

doesn't matter, Destiny is driving Holla Forumsypes to suicide. he's good in my book

I'd grant that to be true in a capitalist context, since many of these people have no title to land and so MUST work the sweatshops, but it is possible for one of them to step outside of capitalism and say "yes, sweatshops are required to survive in the situation that you don't own any property, but capitalism is what creates these conditions".

Which I'm positive you'd agree with, but it is just to say that being mad at Destiny for defending sweatshops isn't necessarily a bad take, since it is an inherent weak point of being in favor of global capitalism.

Also, in the Jontron stream Destiny was defending exploitation of third world workers. He attacked Jontron's nationalist stance by saying "do you think products should be more expensive?", implicitly endorsing third world work conditions for the sake of low prices. This could have been attacked in a number of ways if Jontron wasn't an idiot that could only muster a nervous laugh.

Destiny made a lot of mistakes, chief among them I think is not first of all questioning JT's assertion that "black people" and "white people" are monolithic bodies, or the contradiction that black people as a whole are responsible for the "black crime," but that white people aren't responsible for all the things "white people" do.

Absolutely, but in the context that they're both emphatically arguing for capitalism that makes Destiny right and Sargon wrong under that paradigm.

Sargon isn't Holla Forums. He's a radical centrist who panders to Holla Forums because they're the most loyal fanbase you could ever land and because doing so pisses off both the real and pretend left.

No it isn't. Human society could have developed without class if it wasn't for the fact that where class societies developed they outcompeted their neighbors. Russia came pretty close to bypassing capitalism altogether but the USSR fucked up for a number of reasons about which encyclopedias could be written (who could expect it to go right on the first try at that scale). The notion that capitalism is mandatory is bullshit.

Chapo isn't that great at debate either. Will Menaker is pretty level headed, but the others get angry easily.

They "debated" a tradical once (a fucking retarded one at that) and made some really odd arguments several times. One of them was about porn, in which the tradical was trying to poke the limits of their tolerance to porn.

He said he saw a video of some women crushing squirrels and cockroaches, and asked if this shouldn't be covered by obscenity laws. Their take was that crushing both was not morally terrible because they assumed the tradical ate factory farmed meat, which he denied anyways by saying he was a vegan for the better part of a decade or so.

It would have been so easy to just say "this isn't a matter of porn, but animal cruelty", but instead they took it upon themselves to defend animal cruelty. I wouldn't trust them in a debate.

Arguing his hard for genetic determinism is definitely not a centrist position. The truth is he's just an adamant contrarian who confuses being obfuscatory and argumentative with being correct.

I don't think they're intrinsically great debaters I just think that Sargon's signature debate tactic would betray him when trying to talk to them, since his misplaced sincerity in his insincerely constructed arguments would unravel faced with people who just think he's a fucking idiot.

But that's radical centrism to a T.

Pure ideology. the true conflict is not between those who hold liberal and Marxist views, but between the workers and capitalists.

He's defending sweatshops because it's better than adopting protectionist policies which would no longer aid and develop the third world. Global socialism isn't an option at the moment, so it's either the poor stay poor or their standard of living goes up.

Jontron, Sargon, and every alt-righter wants this though because they want capitalism. They all meme about globalism and jews but don't understand capitalism needs globalism to survive. At least with Destiny's policies it'll limit porky's profit and create a more equal society which will alleviate many problems.

I only say that because that's the way history played out. I don't know how we would have gone from feudalism to socialism.

Yeah the problem is both Destiny and Sargon aren't very well versed in political theory so Destiny, who he accuses of being a neolib, is actually a socdem and Sargon fancies himself a centralist when he's really a right winger and more specifically his political ideology is "being a gigantic douche".

Oh goodie, I found the e-celeb thread
youtu.be/VAVYEzK1Tl8?t=27m42s

He's wrong of course. Liberals like him will be the first in the gulag, not teachers.

God, Sargon vs Destiny was even worse. Sargon was positively a commie compared to the bullshit Destiny was spouting.