Why did Holodomor happen?

Stalin is a cunt.

it didn't happen….

The """Holodomor""" is a Nazi psyop designed to turn people against muh ebul Judeo-Bolshevists

prove it

prove what?

fixed that for you fam

Prove that grain hoarding caused starvation

what starvation? the Holodomor never happened

Seriously tho, is there a comprehensive refutation/contextualization/whatever of it? Besides Grover Furr. I have no idea if even Furr has one, but he probably does, because he's Grover Furr.

Bolshevist kikes have no soul

I see no reason not to believe it happened ITT. Mention holodomor around tankies and they sound identical to Holla Forums.

kulak detected

of course it happened, there are people that even claim it happened because of cultural reasons

the very idea that eastern europe under soviet rule had so many dissidents prove that the soviet system had many, many flaws, there is no point in arguing if it happened or not, but rather, if it did happened, what is the result? why do western imperialists are able to claim communism killed millions, it was obviously flawed

this doesn't mean we can't funpost

left my shitpost flag on

Because death of great numbers of people who disagree with you has no downsides in an authoritarian country, so there's no reason not to kill great numbers of people who disagree with you.

soup there every day, which should have heen cooked with oil. Sunflower or god-knows-what-kind-of oil. Yes, but this Ivan stole the oil. Instead of mixing it into the soup, he sold it to civilians.
Several of our men got to talking one day: We will screw this cook. Of course, everyone was hungry. The soup was being cooked in a huge cauldron. It was so large that the bran had to be poured into it from the top of a table. Ivan would stand on the table, stirring away, not caring a damn that half of the bran stuck together in clumps as big as my two fists. They were like big dumplings that never got cooked. Well, as Ivan stood there stirring the bran, two
guys grabbed his legs and dumped him into the hot stuff. On with the lid real quick. They screwed it on real tight. By morning it boiled down, the meat coming off tender like. We ate it. We were jumping with joy. 'Look, there is meat in the soup.' Of course, those who knew about it wouldn't eat, hut kept quiet. Ivan's bones and jacket were found at the bottom of the cauldron. There was a frantic head count. Roll call five times in every barrack. Who's missing? Who was eaten? The Russians would count us repeatedly and write down the results on match boxes. How many prisoners
are there? They don't add up…. Let's do it again. What a circus this was! Finally they figured out that it was the cook who was
missing. But they never found out who cooked him.

wow sounds like a really great system guys can't wait to get my faggy lenin hat and tankie cosplay

What the fuck are you asking me right now

well it was definitely making a claim unless you posted ironically

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The failure was mostly the result of provincial Ukrainian Party members trying to fill pre-drought grain quotas even as grain production declined, causing many to starve. Arguments that Stalin wanted Ukrainians to die is nationalist drivel and completely unsubstantiated.

Because of Hitler. During this time period and the relative 40 years preceding it, science was blooming and research was conducted flawed and ineffectively as the scientific methods worked themselves out. This of course means that there were many so called "studies" that had confirmations about tons of racial/anthropological stereotypes and myths. (such as criminals having weak chins, which ironically gets flipped about 2 years down that line)
Having purported the so called "good science", there created an animosity about racial and ethnic ideas. This was during the late 1800s and early 1900s, and again science had been working out its kinks (luckily science is self-correcting and can dispel these myths)
This meant that when allies heard news about potential camps for jews, nobody really bats an eye, and so the nazis are able to continue their process of destruction.

Nigga you stoopid.

real reliable source there.

youtube.com/watch?v=XooAb8xojao

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Didn't mean to quote.

The question is WHY it happened, not IF it happened. No one denies there was a famine in Ukraine, the point is that it wasn't a deliberate Hitler-esque genocide attempt like Ukrainian nationalists like to claim.

Thanks dog, you da real MVC.

I've read a theory here a while ago that back at the time, the capitalist powers were unsurprisingly being dicks and would only accept gold, grain and something else in trades with the USSR, and soon before the famine, they cut that down only to grain. So Stalin was forced to sell grain in order to keep industrializing the country, thus the USSR was exporting grain even as some people starved.

Assuming this is all true, there's still the matter that industrialization was prioritized over immediate humanitarian relief necessity.

That industrialization also literally saved the world from the Nazis. Worth it tbh.

Something about Kulaks hoarding grain and shit

Maybe, but hindsight is 20/20. If you were seeing it from 1932, it wouldn't look as rosy.

People aren't claiming Stalin caused the famine, they claim that he's responsible for the deaths because he banished everyone into an area where there was a famine.

What?

It didn't. There was a famine accross all of the southern USSR from Kazastan to the Russian-speaking parts of the Ukraine but there was no Holodomor.

kek

Anarchist love Nazi propaganda.

Really makes you think.

nothing surprising here.
hitler was an anarchist, too.

Wrong.

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This was always my impression, combined with historical, climate, and geological factors.

The USSR a decade earlier had lost 70+ million working bodies. It would take about 18 years to replenish. The US and UK also pulled out of WWII eastern front early letting the USSR deal with the brunt of Nazi Germany's power. This was orchestrated by the global elite to collapse both Germany and the USSR economic potential because Not Socialism(which was financed by the USA to subvert Germany's original destiny as Communist) and USSR/Communism were threats to global capital. With Germany and the USSR fighting each other instead of become one international communist federation the US/UK hegemony won the culture war temporarily.

Second: the USSR/Ukraine was very far north and relied on seasonal agriculture. This is the geological aspect that allowed Russia to win against Napoleon, Hitler and the reason Rome used to abstain from fighting in winter months. Its hard to finance an army with no food. The nation already bankrupted by USSR "victory" over Germany and the USA and UK split the spoils giving none to the USSR, which is pretty much why the Berlin wall was built - USSR tired of getting fucked by underhanded capitalists fighting proxy wars. "The Untold History of the United States" has a really good episode on how the USSR was instrumental to defeating the Nazi's at Stalingrad and how that pretty much was the entire deciding factor of the war. This was only possible because the USA withdrew from the western front allowing/forcing Hitler to focus all resources on the USSR stalling out the war and draining both sides dry. This kind of sets the stage for why the Holocaust is equally not accurate in this regard, as Germany was suffering from enormous shortages nearing the end of the war, and the US was carrying out bombing campaigns on civilian supply trains.

The final reason was climate. There was an unprecedented drought that coincided with the american dust bowl and great depression. The only difference was that the USA didn't have decade long war on their own soil completely devastating 200+ years of infrastructure and losing almost half of their population; as a result the US was able to recover with less loss of life, but its interesting to see how many people died in childbirth or from starvation and poverty in the United States during that period.

Basically the exact same thing happened in China.

The tl;dr is that the USSR got Chile'd Cuba'd Vietnam'd etc but its hard to tell because they were big enough to actually sorta stand a chance against the global capitalists and the historical reasons are generally glossed over or completely ignored.

The trick is that it was all over the moment Germany didn't ally with Russia as communist. basically en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg#German_Revolution_of_1918.E2.80.9319.2C_Luxemburg.27s_murder
was a pre-CIA plot to neuter an eastern alliance that created the vacuum Hitler was born into.

I don't even care anymore. If they were anything like the stupid fucks who are currently letting our planet die for other people's profit and consider not having 17 brands of tooth paste an attack on their freedom, they fucking deserved it.

pick one

the jewish affinity for communism begins to make sense. I wonder the the demographics of Holla Forums posters looks like.

It is a fact a famine happened but the part that experts dont agree on is if Stalin took the grain to kill them or just doing collectivisation as usual during a time of crop failure which was a mistake.

Am I getting this right?

pretty much.

Well that's the problem isn't it? By definition, they were not letting anyone exploit them, because thy lived in a workers' republic, right? And besides, we all know that the poorest among them are the ones who die, as the richer ones can outbuy food.

Is this what happens when you od on ideology?

Even fucking Robert Conquest doesn't say it's genocide. The only people who do are Ukrainian nationalists and Western politicians who need anti-Russian propaganda. This shouldn't even be an issue.

were jews that died of typhoid holocaust victims?

What part of historical setting, climate, and geography is ideology?

It didn't, tovarisch, now help me burn these bodies.

lol